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2016 TRX420FA Not Shifting Properly(Or Not At All)

70K views 46 replies 18 participants last post by  Rubicon19  
#1 ·
Well, I hope there is someone out there who has had this same issue and has a cure, because it is frustrating. The bike has the ability to work properly but just won't. I have had it working and shifting several times but when I get back to the shop from my test drive and shut the key off, it gets all whacked out again. Have already replaced the shift angle sensor with a new one and made sure it was on properly. What happens is the bike whether on auto or esp will get stuck in a certain gear and won't go back into neutral but goes to the blank line state, so when I get back to the shop, I remove the shift motor and can hear the gear "drop into neutral, replace the motor, bolt it on and try reversing out, no reverse! Shut off the key, turn it on, suddenly I have reverse-back out of the shop, press the up button to go forward and nothing! So, I push the bike back into the shop, remove the shift motor again, and test its operation-its working fine. It seems when its on the blink it will go as far as 2nd gear and not any higher, then won't come back down to first and then neutral. Once in a while, i will reverse out of the shop, go into gear and shift up to 5th, down to first back into neutral and also work in ES mode until I shut the machine down at the shop. Then when I decide to test it one more time it doesn't go into gear again.

Thanks for any help. There are no DTC codes on the display to alert me to any solenoid valve problems or anything. Just hoping someone reads this and knows exactly whats happening.
 
#3 ·
You may have already checked some of these but I'll list them anyway to save time.

First thing is, make sure there are no issues with the motor, particularly in the fuel injection system. The PCM controls part of the shifting duties.

You have probably ruled out a failing or dragging shift motor... thats gotta run free and easy.

With the key off, the display meter plug and the ECM plug should both be unplugged to look for bad connectors, then both plugged back in.

Both of the vehicle speed sensors has to be good, with good clean connections in the plugs for them, or the PCM won't allow it to shift. Check the service manual for their locations.

Check the gear position switch using the service manual as well.

Check the 2wd/4wd selector switch. Check the shift solenoid too.

I can't think of any others to check right now. Have you tried the troubleshooting steps in the service manual? Like the serial comm line test & power/ground check for the display...?

Hope it ends up to be simple...
 
#4 ·
I am so sorry to see you are still having this problem. This is exactly the sort of thing that scares people away from Honda's ES or DCT transmissions. It makes me sad because I'm sure you're frustrated, and also because I don't see people having problems with this transmission. My 2016 DCT AUTO Rancher (TRX420FA2) has been flawless now in 2800 miles. I think there must be something simple that is wrong...but what, I don't know. Wish I could help.
 
#5 ·
My 16 rancher is a manual shift model. I'm a firm believer in the KISS method(KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID). Not trying to be an jerk but thats why I steered away from that option when I got mine. I did read somewhere on the web about the ES models did come with a bolt on shifter in the tool kit in case something happened you could install it on the motor and shift with your foot. If that is the case I'm curious to see if your machine would operate correctly using the manual shifter. Not sure this is accurate on the 16 models but I did read it somewhere a very short time ago.
 
#6 ·
It's almost a year later, the bike has been sitting in the shop since my last post, no time to work on it until this weekend. Sooooo, I've taken the shift angle sensor off to see if I somehow installed it incorrectly but it's pretty dummy proof, has a half moon shaped slot in the sensor that fits over a half moon shaped stub on the end of the shift shaft. Checked the battery voltage and all that, the battery is fully charged, etc. Removed the shift motor to inspect it's operation, when I turn on the key with the motor removed and press the upshift button the motor spins nice and quietly, no worn or damaged teeth on the gear. Removed the reduction gear cover and reduction gears, inspected the teeth they're all good. Put everything back together and reversed the bike out of the shop, tried it in ESP mode first and went up and down the road shifting from first to 5th then back down again, then I switched over to AUTO and it smoothly switched gears speeding up and slowing down then when I got back to the shop and stopped, tried to switch to neutral and it wouldn't work. was stuck in D, tried switching back to ESP mode and it wouldn't go to neutral either and also wouldn't upshift anymore, had to use the "tool" to get it into neutral again. Wondering if there is some alignment with the reduction gears that I'm not getting right. The manual doesn't mention anything about aligning the gears in any specific way other than the one shaft gear that fits over a spline with one wide tooth at the back which means the gear cannot be installed incorrectly it only goes on one way! If there is anyone out there this year that sees this post and has any other suggestions I would be extremely grateful!
 
#7 ·
Try taking the shift gears out and clean them in solvent and allow them to dry completely. Clean the case and cover housing up good too.

Push some light grease (I use synthetic grease because of severe winter temps, but the FSM states differently) into the shift gears bearings using your finger as you rotate each... they are usually pretty dry (factory uses crappy grease too, it hardens up) from the factory. Get some grease in each of them and make sure they each turn freely and smoothly. If any feel rough or gritty, replace them with new OEM Honda bearings and push grease into them before installing.

Inspect those bearings to make sure each are installed straight in their bores and are installed all of the way down where they belong. Sometimes a bearing will be cocked (from the factory) and will cause a gear to bind up and/or rub a deep groove in the case or housing cover, or both. If you see something wrong in there fix it. Its gotta be absolutely perfect.

The shift motor is very wimpy on ES bikes... all of them are, so you have to make sure everything is turning very freely with no binding. Use a good quality light lithium grease or a light synthetic (best in my opinion) and coat every gear (and all gear teeth) lightly on all surfaces. Coat the case and the housing very lightly with the same grease as well. Then reinstall everything carefully. Those gears must be installed a certain way, as the service manual shows. Before you put the cover back on look at the gears and make sure they can swing both directions, (left and right) an equal amount. In other words, the lower gear will be installed on its' center-most tooth.

Put the housing cover back on carefully using a light coating of grease on the sealing areas and snug the bolts up in a criss-cross alternating pattern. DO NOT overtighten them or the shift gears will bind between the case and cover and the wimpy shift motor will not be able to overcome any binding. Just snug them up... gently in a criss-cross pattern alternating around until all of the bolts are equally snug, then stop and don't ever touch them again.

Put the angle sensor back on carefully using a light coating of grease on the sealing area. Gently snug it up and plug everything back in.

Let us know how it goes for ya...
 
#8 ·
Thanks Retro, I will try your suggestions this weekend, I did notice the crappy hard grease on the gears that you mentioned and it was just in lumps and not distributed evenly over the gears. I did put a small amount of EP102 synthetic grease on the gear teeth but will take everything apart again, clean it and re-distribute the grease everywhere, we also have very cold temperatures here at times, lol. I will let you know if this solves the problem.
 
#13 ·
So I have mine apart right now... I took the shift motor off, looks okay.. teeth all looks good. I left it off, but connected the wiring.. up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down... motor works fine ever time. I am in the process now of trying to get the case off, behind the shift motor so I can inspect the small gears and re-lube with white lithium. I'll keep you up to date.
 
#14 ·
If anyone could provide some tips on whether these gears look okay, I'd appreciate it. This stuff is all foreign to me. On the triangular gear, I noticed that one side of the teeth seem to have slightly more wear - kind of a beveled edge... is that normal? Also, when looking at the picture of the gear case, you will see that there's a bearing on the bottom left. Compared to the other two, this one seems to have a little click every time it's rotated (it's not super smooth like the other two)... also normal?
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#15 ·
Any luck @zdrucker? I am at the exact same stage as you and haven't got it working yet. My gears look the same as yours, including the beveled edge on the triangular shaped one. I cleaned things up and now going to try to re-grease them and see what it's like from there.

If anyone could provide some tips on whether these gears look okay, I'd appreciate it. This stuff is all foreign to me. On the triangular gear, I noticed that one side of the teeth seem to have slightly more wear - kind of a beveled edge... is that normal? Also, when looking at the picture of the gear case, you will see that there's a bearing on the bottom left. Compared to the other two, this one seems to have a little click every time it's rotated (it's not super smooth like the other two)... also normal?
 
#16 ·
Haven't buttoned anything back up yet. I got a new oil seal for the case there, and am going to install that, as well as clean the bearings up really well. Out of curiosity, does your bottom bearing in the corner of the case click? Kind of like a ratchet, as it goes around? The two on top are smooth, but I noticed that bottom one in the corner sounds and feels a tiny bit different. I'm going to clean them up really well and see if there's a difference before I install it back. If not, I may just order a new case ($40, and it comes with all the bearings installed).
 
#22 ·
There is an 8mm shaft coming out of the front of the motor, goes through the shift motor gear assembly. Put a 8mm wrench or socket on it and try to shift it up and down. If that works than your problems are electric. If that doesn't work than you have a mecanical problem. There is a pin screwed into the middle case that the shift mecanism indexes off of to return to it's center position. This pin can brake and the shift shaft never centers it's self or goes back to "home" position and it causes shift problems like you discribe. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.
 
#24 ·
Thank you @Rocketman5144 I replaced the angle sensor, put a brand new battery in it, and still have the same issues. Sometimes I can get it to work and shift like normal, other times it will not go past second. Every time I turn the key to the on position, it won't show neutral on the display - always just a solid dash (no blinking). I can use the ESP mode to get it into neutral and started but it usually takes a few tries.

I will try that manual shift shaft and see if I can move it. Thanks for your help.
 
#29 ·
Ok I have gone through the steps that Rocketman5144 suggested and here it what I am getting. With the machine jacked up I can switch up and down thru the gears with the ESP mode, sometimes it will show 1st then if I shift again may show 3rd, continue shifting with thumb shift and can go up to 5th and back down to N, the screen occasionally shown dash line otherwise will show what gear it is in, I sometimes have to turn the key on and off to get it to cycle. While using the wrench starting in N I can shift into gear but the shaft will not return to the middle position, using the gear selector (thumb shift) it will return to the middle position when shifting up and down. Based on this it appears I have an internal transmission problem... any thoughts?

Thanks
 
#31 ·
@MOfarmer I have a PDF service manual for 2014 to 2017 TRX420 models, let me know if you need it and I can see if there's a good way to share it with you.

@Rockerman5144 is there a pre-load procedure for the angle sensors on the 2016 model? There is nothing in the service manual for this - just says to install it. I put a new angle sensor in and it didn't fix my problems, called my dealership and they said it needs to be preloaded by putting it on upside down and twisting into place, but this doesn't seem physically possible with the layout, I am wondering if that is a procedure for a previous year model. Anyway, I did take the new sensor out and mess with it a bit and turn the metal half moon inside a bit, when I re-installed it that transmission works a lot better but still has issues at times. It seems to be between 2nd and 3rd. Sometimes it will work completely normally, turn it back on 5 minutes later and will act up.
 
#33 ·
Grass Roots Ranch I downloaded a service manual yesterday and just began to dive into it. In the troubleshooting section one of the first thing it recommends is to troubleshoot the electric shift motor, I'll pull and take a look. When the problem started I had used it and the next day the problems began at startup, not like it occurred doing use, still hoping it's electric vs something mechanical internally. Grass Roots Ranch thanks for the offer, I'll keep posting.
 
#34 ·
Tore into mine today and found the gearshift return spring pin was broke off #18 in the parts schematic link above. I decided to try and make the repairs without pulling the motor and was able to get to everything without too much trouble. Took off the fenders, skid plate, loosened up the front differential..for the most part wasn't too bad. I have ordered parts and we'll see in a few days if it fixes my issues. I've attached a few pictures for reference.
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#37 ·
Tore into mine today and found the gearshift return spring pin was broke off #18 in the parts schematic link above. I decided to try and make the repairs without pulling the motor and was able to get to everything without too much trouble. Took off the fenders, skid plate, loosened up the front differential..for the most part wasn't too bad. I have ordered parts and we'll see in a few days if it fixes my issues. I've attached a few pictures for reference.
Did this fix your issue? I hope you got it working correct again.

I am currently working on a Foot Shift Conversion Kit, I should have the prototype complete in a week. If anyone is interested in this let me know and check out our website for updates.