[hodge5]

1999 TRX300FW, I've owned it since new, and it is in excellent shape. Like, awful close to showroom condition.
Recently, I've had a starting issue. Turn the key on, hit the starter, and 1 of a couple of things happen (with no pattern)- starter solenoid clicks but nothing else, starter turns over but very slow, turns over slow, stops, and solenoid starts to click, or it starts completely normal. Battery is full charged, and in good shape- it isn't the battery. Posts are clean and tight. Today, experimenting, I found that I could lightly tap the side of the starter with a socket (I wouldn't have to do it very hard), and it would start correctly. Shut it off, and it would malfunction. Tap the starter, and it would start up correctly. Shut it off, and the solenoid would just click. Tap the starter once (on the side of the case, near the end of the shaft stub), and it works like it should.
It is the second starter, not the original- about 2 years after I bought it, the starter bearings got noisy. The Honda dealer replaced the starter with a Honda piece. Been in there ever since.
The bike has never been mudded, swamped, or in water up to the starter.
So, what's up?

 

[SamUK]

1999 TRX300FW, I've owned it since new, and it is in excellent shape. Like, awful close to showroom condition.
Recently, I've had a starting issue. Turn the key on, hit the starter, and 1 of a couple of things happen (with no pattern)- starter solenoid clicks but nothing else, starter turns over but very slow, turns over slow, stops, and solenoid starts to click, or it starts completely normal. Battery is full charged, and in good shape- it isn't the battery. Posts are clean and tight. Today, experimenting, I found that I could lightly tap the side of the starter with a socket (I wouldn't have to do it very hard), and it would start correctly. Shut it off, and it would malfunction. Tap the starter, and it would start up correctly. Shut it off, and the solenoid would just click. Tap the starter once (on the side of the case, near the end of the shaft stub), and it works like it should.
It is the second starter, not the original- about 2 years after I bought it, the starter bearings got noisy. The Honda dealer replaced the starter with a Honda piece. Been in there ever since.
The bike has never been mudded, swamped, or in water up to the starter.
So, what's up?

Quite possibly just dried out inside and become sticky. Or, the comm could be worn along with the brushes. Or, the windings could be damaged.

 

[hodge5]

So, pull the starter and open it? I assume that they are rebuildable?

 

[SamUK]

I’ve never rebuilt an ATV starter but I see no reason why it can’t be, the only thing that would scrap it as such would be if the windings have failed.

 

[hodge5]

Ok.
Out of curiosity, hopefully someone can enlighten me as to why lightly tapping on the case is making a difference.

 

[_Wilson_]

Sounds like the brushes to me.... Mine acted just like yours, a brush kit solved the issue.... Been perfect every sense.

 

[shadetree]

starter brushes are bad.

 

[retro]

Yep, starter brushes are worn out, OR one of them is stuck in its brush holder due to rust in the holder, or has a rusted off brush spring.

You can rebuild it (service manual is an excellent guide) after disassembling, cleaning thoroughly and putting fresh lube in both bearings.

 

[hodge5]

Thanks for all of the input. I'm going to pull it, and see what's up.
I can't imagine that the brushes are worn out, based on the life of it. I'd estimate that my quad has less than a thousand miles on it, and the starter hasn't been used extensively. I'm expecting to find an anomaly, not routine wear. It just doesn't have that much life used up.
My cousin is right smart about electrical stuff, and he's got a close friend who rebuilds starters and alternators for a living. So, I'm certain that it'll get sorted. I'm just curious, before removing it.

 

[shadetree]

Thanks for all of the input. I'm going to pull it, and see what's up.
I can't imagine that the brushes are worn out, based on the life of it. I'd estimate that my quad has less than a thousand miles on it, and the starter hasn't been used extensively. I'm expecting to find an anomaly, not routine wear. It just doesn't have that much life used up.
My cousin is right smart about electrical stuff, and he's got a close friend who rebuilds starters and alternators for a living. So, I'm certain that it'll get sorted. I'm just curious, before removing it.

i'd be willing to bet, its either the starter brushes ?, or the starter solenoid relay ?.

 

[hodge5]

Thanks for all of the input. I'm going to pull it, and see what's up.
I can't imagine that the brushes are worn out, based on the life of it. I'd estimate that my quad has less than a thousand miles on it, and the starter hasn't been used extensively. I'm expecting to find an anomaly, not routine wear. It just doesn't have that much life used up.
My cousin is right smart about electrical stuff, and he's got a close friend who rebuilds starters and alternators for a living. So, I'm certain that it'll get sorted. I'm just curious, before removing it.

i'd be willing to bet, its either the starter brushes ?, or the starter solenoid relay ?.

It isn't the solenoid relay. It's isolated inside the starter.

 

[shadetree]

Thanks for all of the input. I'm going to pull it, and see what's up.
I can't imagine that the brushes are worn out, based on the life of it. I'd estimate that my quad has less than a thousand miles on it, and the starter hasn't been used extensively. I'm expecting to find an anomaly, not routine wear. It just doesn't have that much life used up.
My cousin is right smart about electrical stuff, and he's got a close friend who rebuilds starters and alternators for a living. So, I'm certain that it'll get sorted. I'm just curious, before removing it.

i'd be willing to bet, its either the starter brushes ?, or the starter solenoid relay ?.

It isn't the solenoid relay. It's isolated inside the starter.

then the starter brushes are bad bro .

 

[hodge5]

Pulled the starter apart this afternoon.
The brushes are worn down to nubs. Commutator was rough (arc damage), and it has a burr on it in one spot. Going to clean it up, and put new brushes in it.

 

[hodge5]

I received the parts for my Honda starter from Bikebandit- the plan is to send the starter to a local businessman who rebuilds starters. I want him to look over the commutator, especially the damage from arcing. I think that he can clean it up. In the meantime, I've bought one of those $38 starters from ebay. I decided to give one a try, for two reasons- I want my original starter to be gone through, but I want to use my atv now. Second, I was really curious what the difference is between a $280 Honda starter, and a generic one. In looking for brushes for my original, I found that the same starter was used on other brands, too. I do not believe that it is Honda built, or Honda-unique. I do believe that the price is inflated because the packaging has "Honda" on it. So, I want to see how this cheap starter holds up. So far, it is super quiet, fast, and positive- it doesn't sound or perform any differently. Time will tell, of course, but when I can buy 7 of them compared to the cost of 1 Honda-branded starter, it might not turn out to be a bad option. I don't mind being a guinea pig.

 

[fishfiles]

I am with you on the " want to ride now " ------ it is a bummer to miss a ride

 

[hodge5]

I am with you on the " want to ride now " ------ it is a bummer to miss a ride

It bugged me, more than expected, that it was down. I don't ride it every day, but I know that I can. Not having it available bothered me.

 

[shadetree]

is it posb the starter solenoid has been sticking when the motor is running ?, and this ran the brushes down ?. if you hardly road it ?, and had a new oem starter installed ?, then why would the starter brushes be worn down to nubs so soon ?, answer : the starter solenoid is sticking in the '' start '' phase '' , and now your starter is cranking over while the motor is running , this is all I can think of ??. after market starter ?, yeah..let us know how long that 38 dollar starter last would ya ?! .

 

[fishfiles]

my story on Chinese solenoids is bad , I bought 3 for $5 each off ebay , out of all three I got maybe 7 starts , one never started one time , one started twice and burned up and the fiassco was after about 5 starts we were all taking a break and my bike starts spinning on it's own with the key turned to the off position , I had to disconnect the battery to get it to stop

 

[hodge5]

is it posb the starter solenoid has been sticking when the motor is running ?, and this ran the brushes down ?. if you hardly road it ?, and had a new oem starter installed ?, then why would the starter brushes be worn down to nubs so soon ?, answer : the starter solenoid is sticking in the '' start '' phase '' , and now your starter is cranking over while the motor is running , this is all I can think of ??. after market starter ?, yeah..let us know how long that 38 dollar starter last would ya ?! .

No, the solenoid wasn't sticking.
I will update on my cheap starter. I'm not disillusioned on what I have. It works, and it surely will work long enough for me to have a professional go through my original starter. Then, I will have it to put back on.

 

[fishfiles]

Doesn't the starter stay technically stay engage mechanically all the time , after it starts and the electrical connection is disconnected , the starter still spins thru the gears , I would guess as there is no bendix