Honda ATV Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So I was told that the problem with my 2005 Rancher AT 400 blinking "---" and flashes ESP when I put it in reverse or Auto was because my angle sensor was bad. When this happens the quad acts as if it is in a high gear and wants to stall. I replaced the sensor and found out that this did not fix the problem. So now I am out $85 for the sensor and still a broken quad. I noticed just the other day that when I have my quad in nuetral i can push or pull it around forward with one arm but it takes everything I have to push or pull it backwards. Sometimes I cant even do that. I am trying to avoid guessing the problem and sinking parts into it that wont fix it, so any ideas would be great. Also if anyone knows where I could find a service manual for cheap would be huge as well. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
So the quad is in neutral for sure and you can rev the engine without it moving but its really hard to push it. Sorry if I'm asking a stupid question I just want to be sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
No problem, I understand. Ive had to ask people obvious questions like that too. But ya I am for sure that it is in Nuetral. I can push it around forwards all day long, but not backwards. Another thing that I have noticed is that when I am going fast (25-30mph and up) and I slam on my brakes, the rear of the quad starts to hop a little as given from the hard braking but i hear a grinding noise coming from the enigne. Now the kicker is that if I am going fast and use the engine to If you know anything from all this that would be a great help. Thanks a bunch
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,873 Posts
As posted on atvconnection.com speacial thanks to Gimpster





Well,
First check for codes. Key off, shifter in neutral, hold both up and downshift buttons in, turn on the key while depressing them, let off them and depress both again. If any codes flash, take note of them and post them on here, we will tell you what they are. Now, while the codes are flashing, depress and hold the up and downshift buttons to erase them.
So, initialize the unit normally. Key off, unit in neutral, depress and hold both upshift and downshift shift buttons, turn the key on, the meter shift position should flash "--" let off both shift buttons, depress them within a few seconds of letting off, in this order, depress the upshift button, downshift button and sweep the throttle fully and let off. After a few seconds the shift motor should cycle and when complete the display will show "N".
Turn off the key, lift the rear of the quad and remove the rear tires, support the rear axle firmly off the ground ( do not do this proceedure with the rear wheels on ! ) Place the lockout switch in 2WD, and switch to ESP mode. With the unit in neutral, key off, depress and hold both up and downshift buttons as mentioned before, turn on the key and follow this proceedure within a few seconds of turning the key on. Let off shift buttons, depress them in this order, up, up, down, down. The shift indicator on the dash panel should alternate between "N" and "--" when the proceedure is completed the proper way. Once tha panel is in this mode, start the unit, hold the front brake, shift to "D" with the shift lever and upshift to 5th gear (meter should alernate "5" adn "--" on the gear position area) accelerate up and around to 19 to 21 MPH and hold it steady until the display shows the "5" gear position only without flashing. Let off the throttle, downshift to 1st gear, shift to neutral and turn off yhe ignition switch. ( Do not just turn off the ignition switch while the panel shows 5th gear, or while it is in drive mode, shift down, shift to neutral) Now reinstall the rear wheels.
I don't care what year your 400AT is, do this proceedure as it was most likely not done at the dealership when the unit was set-up.
Ride the ATV - you will notice a difference in its performance as the tranny and ECM are set correct
If a dragging, sluggish sensation is noted, remove the front brake drums, clean the excessivve drum seal grease from the drum seal, backing plate and brake shoes. Clean the shoes with brake cleaner and ruff them up with emery cloth to get rid of any glazing. Reinstall the front drums and wheels.
Now if the unit still drags down like it is in a high gear when riding slow or taking off, replace the centrifical clutch assembly including drum, shoes, springs and possibly the one way bearing. Once this repair has been completed follow the above outlined proceedure and you will love your quad once again as it will perform as it was designed.If you miss getting into the diadnostic mode of the ECM, the dispaly will simply flash the "N" for what gear you are in instead of flashing "--". Simply turn off the ignition and start over.
Print off my above post and follow it, you can do it.
Why does it do it now ? I think your centrifical clutch drum warped from heat. These units have a shift point programmed into them that is right next to the clutch engagement RPM. If the unit was not initialized correctly, the ECM gets confused with the RPM/swash plate angle reading. It will kind of act like letting your clutch out in 3rd gear to get going from a stop light on a manual tranny car. This does not happen when taking off, it happens when in auto mode between gears. The tranny actually shifts at the wrong time, making the centrifical clutch shoes slip. the ecm sees a higher rpm and shifts the tranny up. After continual times, the clutch drum gets hot and warps or grooves making the shoes hang or slip. You will not notice the issue at first, but as components wear it moves the shift point way closer to where the issue will surface.
If you initialize the unit like I explained in one of the first steps in my origional post ( Up, down, wide open throttle and off) The tranny will travel the swash plate range, entirely, where the resistance from each end of the swash plate travel is saved in the ECM, via the angle sensor, for future reference when shifting. Now in the second step (wheels removed, up, up, down, down, 5th gear at 20 mph etc...) the ecm remembers the swash plate angle resistance sent from the angle sensor in 5th gear with no load farther refining the range of where the swash plate rides. Instead of its position from complete one way to the other in its travel span.
This is how it was explained to me after I found the centrifical clutches being burned up.


----- Gregg -----
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
996 Posts
Nice repost saber. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
As posted on atvconnection.com speacial thanks to Gimpster





Well,
First check for codes. Key off, shifter in neutral, hold both up and downshift buttons in, turn on the key while depressing them, let off them and depress both again. If any codes flash, take note of them and post them on here, we will tell you what they are. Now, while the codes are flashing, depress and hold the up and downshift buttons to erase them.
So, initialize the unit normally. Key off, unit in neutral, depress and hold both upshift and downshift shift buttons, turn the key on, the meter shift position should flash "--" let off both shift buttons, depress them within a few seconds of letting off, in this order, depress the upshift button, downshift button and sweep the throttle fully and let off. After a few seconds the shift motor should cycle and when complete the display will show "N".
Turn off the key, lift the rear of the quad and remove the rear tires, support the rear axle firmly off the ground ( do not do this proceedure with the rear wheels on ! ) Place the lockout switch in 2WD, and switch to ESP mode. With the unit in neutral, key off, depress and hold both up and downshift buttons as mentioned before, turn on the key and follow this proceedure within a few seconds of turning the key on. Let off shift buttons, depress them in this order, up, up, down, down. The shift indicator on the dash panel should alternate between "N" and "--" when the proceedure is completed the proper way. Once tha panel is in this mode, start the unit, hold the front brake, shift to "D" with the shift lever and upshift to 5th gear (meter should alernate "5" adn "--" on the gear position area) accelerate up and around to 19 to 21 MPH and hold it steady until the display shows the "5" gear position only without flashing. Let off the throttle, downshift to 1st gear, shift to neutral and turn off yhe ignition switch. ( Do not just turn off the ignition switch while the panel shows 5th gear, or while it is in drive mode, shift down, shift to neutral) Now reinstall the rear wheels.
I don't care what year your 400AT is, do this proceedure as it was most likely not done at the dealership when the unit was set-up.
Ride the ATV - you will notice a difference in its performance as the tranny and ECM are set correct
If a dragging, sluggish sensation is noted, remove the front brake drums, clean the excessivve drum seal grease from the drum seal, backing plate and brake shoes. Clean the shoes with brake cleaner and ruff them up with emery cloth to get rid of any glazing. Reinstall the front drums and wheels.
Now if the unit still drags down like it is in a high gear when riding slow or taking off, replace the centrifical clutch assembly including drum, shoes, springs and possibly the one way bearing. Once this repair has been completed follow the above outlined proceedure and you will love your quad once again as it will perform as it was designed.If you miss getting into the diadnostic mode of the ECM, the dispaly will simply flash the "N" for what gear you are in instead of flashing "--". Simply turn off the ignition and start over.
Print off my above post and follow it, you can do it.
Why does it do it now ? I think your centrifical clutch drum warped from heat. These units have a shift point programmed into them that is right next to the clutch engagement RPM. If the unit was not initialized correctly, the ECM gets confused with the RPM/swash plate angle reading. It will kind of act like letting your clutch out in 3rd gear to get going from a stop light on a manual tranny car. This does not happen when taking off, it happens when in auto mode between gears. The tranny actually shifts at the wrong time, making the centrifical clutch shoes slip. the ecm sees a higher rpm and shifts the tranny up. After continual times, the clutch drum gets hot and warps or grooves making the shoes hang or slip. You will not notice the issue at first, but as components wear it moves the shift point way closer to where the issue will surface.
If you initialize the unit like I explained in one of the first steps in my origional post ( Up, down, wide open throttle and off) The tranny will travel the swash plate range, entirely, where the resistance from each end of the swash plate travel is saved in the ECM, via the angle sensor, for future reference when shifting. Now in the second step (wheels removed, up, up, down, down, 5th gear at 20 mph etc...) the ecm remembers the swash plate angle resistance sent from the angle sensor in 5th gear with no load farther refining the range of where the swash plate rides. Instead of its position from complete one way to the other in its travel span.
This is how it was explained to me after I found the centrifical clutches being burned up.


----- Gregg -----
Gregg, you obviously, have a tremendous understanding of the Hondamatic system. I repleced the motor in a 04 trx 500, which had one vehicle speed sensor, on the rear output shaft. The repacement motor I installed which is allegedly 06 TRX 500 dosnt appear to have any vehicle speed sensor.I'm told the 06 has a veh spd sensor front and rear. I can operate the machine in ESP mode only, but as the revs rise the display flashes and I can't change gears without restarting the motor. Any ideas, thanks Stan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Ok, so i tried what you said. With the quad in Nuetral and the switch to auto and not esp, i held the up and down shift buttons turned it on (but not the motor) and then let go and held the buttons again. I got the display to start flashing "--". So what is going on is the esp is flashing 5 times really quickly, then it is blank for about 1/2 second then it flashes 5 more times really quickly. After the 2 rounds of 5 flashes each the esp goes blank for about a 1/2 second again and then it comes on and stays on for about 3 seconds. It then repeats the whole process again. All the meanwhile that this is going on the 4wd light is flashing on and off about every 3 seconds (on for 3, off for 3). I am able to get the quad to reset and when i do this and go back into the above mode the esp just blinks "--" slowly along with the 4wd light. I was not able to get the shift motor to cycle however. I tried following the instructions a dozen times or so, before and after resetting the quad and nothing happened. I was able to do the last thing you said and with the rear tires off get the esp to flash between "N" and "--" and then shifted thru 5th gear and the "5" stopped flashing. I still get the problem when i put it in auto or reverse tho. One thing that i do remember is that i heard a clanking coming from the little motor on the front left of the engine and i pulled it apart and checked it out but nothing seemed wrong. I dont know if this might be the problem or not. Also whenever i am going fast, (in esp mode and above 30mph) and i slam the brakes i get a girnding noise which seems like it is coming from the center if the quad (likely the tranny). Maybe this is the clutch that you are talking about. If this helps you any and you might know more I realllly appreciate. Thanks a bunch.
-JEFF-
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
i am having the same exact problem. if you drive forward for a wile and then stop and then drive again, does it sometimes only stay in 1st and blink on the computer?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
it will stay in whatever gear it was in and blink esp and "--" but it does it when i am in auto mode it is fine in esp mode in forwards. Either mode i am in it will not let me go in reverse. Also one more thing to add is that if i ride it really hard around the woods for about 10-15minutes then it will let me go in reverse for a very short spell.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
So i found out one more thing that may or may not help. I was playing with the quad trying to get the shift motor to cycle and started screwing with it when it was running. In auto mode if i put it in forward and hurried up and hit the gas (the quad is also in the air on a 4-wheeler jack) it would go as normal all the way up but the top speed seems slightly lower (48mph used to go 55mph). Now when i let off the gas or slow down to about 3mph then the esp light comes on and starts flashing and it is stuck in 1st gear. I also tried swapping the shfit motor with the one off of our other 400 AT that i know is running fine and it still has the same problem and will not cycle. So i do not think that the shift motor is bad. Hope this might help. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
that is the same exact thng that happens to me. and if you try to put it in revervse when you first start it. it almost sounds like your hitting the rev limiter correct?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
ya kinda but it doesnt usually matter if i just start it or its been running it will do that fall the time unless i have been riding it reallly hard for about 10-15minutes straight
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top