Honda ATV Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
88 TRX300FW

Figures. New tires, new wheels, new shift and centrifugal clutches, new master cylinder, and a complete rear end reseal/bearing and rear brake kits in the mail. Finished the clutches today, rode it for about 45 mins. Everything was working perfectly.

Get back and decide to recheck the rear diff fluid, as it's leaking some (hence the reseal kit). Notice a growing pool of oil forming. Well crap!! Investigation resulted in discovering there were no threads left in the oil drain hole. I don't know if I cross threaded it (don't think I did), or if they were just tired after 31 years. If I'd wanted to, I could have pulled the bolt out without even unscrewing it.

3 hours of driving to every auto parts store resulted in discovering there are no M12 1.50 pitch oversize drain bolts to be had. Thought about heli-coiling it, but at $75 I decided to tap it to M14 instead. All went well, till I realized 1/2 the drain hole has a raised piece that is exactly the size for a stock M12 bolt, and the M14 is a tad too wide to screw down flush. Ok, so got out the dremel and ground that down.

Still leaking. I'm pretty sure I just couldn't get it flat enough and it's still not sitting flush. Leaks even with one of those plastic washer do-dads. I'm still googling for ideas, but currently about the only option I see is to pull the engine and get a perfectly flat area for the M14 to seat. But thought I'd see if any of you had any ideas.

I might try some of those rubber universal thingies as a stop-gap measure for now. I really need this running. Also, my side cover started leaking as well, don't know why it took it 6 hours to start, but it just started leaking while I was working on drain plug. The gasket got torn due to my fan, I used some gasket maker where the tear was, but seems it didn't hold. So that's on the list now too.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,547 Posts
your not the first. and it has been discussed here many times before, and different ways to fix it.
i cant point you to the thread, but someone will soon.
at the moment, i am thinking of an expansion plug. when you put it in and tighten it, the rubber expands..
or weld an aluminum, thick washer, to the bottom, and tap it..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
88 TRX300FW

Figures. New tires, new wheels, new shift and centrifugal clutches, new master cylinder, and a complete rear end reseal/bearing and rear brake kits in the mail. Finished the clutches today, rode it for about 45 mins. Everything was working perfectly.

Get back and decide to recheck the rear diff fluid, as it's leaking some (hence the reseal kit). Notice a growing pool of oil forming. Well crap!! Investigation resulted in discovering there were no threads left in the oil drain hole. I don't know if I cross threaded it (don't think I did), or if they were just tired after 31 years. If I'd wanted to, I could have pulled the bolt out without even unscrewing it.

3 hours of driving to every auto parts store resulted in discovering there are no M12 1.50 pitch oversize drain bolts to be had. Thought about heli-coiling it, but at $75 I decided to tap it to M14 instead. All went well, till I realized 1/2 the drain hole has a raised piece that is exactly the size for a stock M12 bolt, and the M14 is a tad too wide to screw down flush. Ok, so got out the dremel and ground that down.

Still leaking. I'm pretty sure I just couldn't get it flat enough and it's still not sitting flush. Leaks even with one of those plastic washer do-dads. I'm still googling for ideas, but currently about the only option I see is to pull the engine and get a perfectly flat area for the M14 to seat. But thought I'd see if any of you had any ideas.

I might try some of those rubber universal thingies as a stop-gap measure for now. I really need this running. Also, my side cover started leaking as well, don't know why it took it 6 hours to start, but it just started leaking while I was working on drain plug. The gasket got torn due to my fan, I used some gasket maker where the tear was, but seems it didn't hold. So that's on the list now too.
Haven't had to do a 300 yet, but according to Toodeep you can tap it out to 14MM and use a stock Honda plug that has the same 17MM head on it.

https://www.hondaforeman.com/130-foreman-500/71918-oil-drain-plug-size-2.html#post3072250

Have pics of what yours is hitting?

I used that plug and a 14MM tap to do my father in laws 06 Rubicon a few weeks ago. Worked fine on that one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,651 Posts
i am thinking of an expansion plug. when you put it in and tighten it, the rubber expands..
Eh, MAYBE for a temp fix.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
88 TRX300FW

Figures. New tires, new wheels, new shift and centrifugal clutches, new master cylinder, and a complete rear end reseal/bearing and rear brake kits in the mail. Finished the clutches today, rode it for about 45 mins. Everything was working perfectly.

Get back and decide to recheck the rear diff fluid, as it's leaking some (hence the reseal kit). Notice a growing pool of oil forming. Well crap!! Investigation resulted in discovering there were no threads left in the oil drain hole. I don't know if I cross threaded it (don't think I did), or if they were just tired after 31 years. If I'd wanted to, I could have pulled the bolt out without even unscrewing it.

3 hours of driving to every auto parts store resulted in discovering there are no M12 1.50 pitch oversize drain bolts to be had. Thought about heli-coiling it, but at $75 I decided to tap it to M14 instead. All went well, till I realized 1/2 the drain hole has a raised piece that is exactly the size for a stock M12 bolt, and the M14 is a tad too wide to screw down flush. Ok, so got out the dremel and ground that down.

Still leaking. I'm pretty sure I just couldn't get it flat enough and it's still not sitting flush. Leaks even with one of those plastic washer do-dads. I'm still googling for ideas, but currently about the only option I see is to pull the engine and get a perfectly flat area for the M14 to seat. But thought I'd see if any of you had any ideas.

I might try some of those rubber universal thingies as a stop-gap measure for now. I really need this running. Also, my side cover started leaking as well, don't know why it took it 6 hours to start, but it just started leaking while I was working on drain plug. The gasket got torn due to my fan, I used some gasket maker where the tear was, but seems it didn't hold. So that's on the list now too.
Haven't had to do a 300 yet, but according to Toodeep you can tap it out to 14MM and use a stock Honda plug that has the same 17MM head on it.

https://www.hondaforeman.com/130-foreman-500/71918-oil-drain-plug-size-2.html#post3072250

Have pics of what yours is hitting?

I used that plug and a 14MM tap to do my father in laws 06 Rubicon a few weeks ago. Worked fine on that one.

CRAP, Honda didn't volunteer that option when I called them! Wish I'd know, as I tapped it to M14 1.25 not 1.5. (Only tap I could find at the auto parts store). I think for now I'm going to teflon tape the plug. And I'm going to order some type of M14 1.25 threaded bung. Then JB weld it or something for a long term fix. But today I'm pulling the side cover AGAIN, pull the paper gasket off, and use gasket maker instead. I wasn't impressed with the paper gasket anyway.

Thanks for the input!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Have pics of what yours is hitting?
Well, it's ground off now, mostly. I don't have a pic, but here's a pic of one form a guy on here who's got worse problems than I do! You can see the 1/4 moon raised piece to the right of what used to be his drain hole, now it's just his hole.

engine 006 (800x600).jpg

In other news, I discovered why my side cover was leaking:

20190712_164509.jpg

20190712_164527.jpg

So for my second PSA of the day, be careful the reverse lockout spring doesn't somehow come loose and start poking out the bottom of your case. And if it does, don't fully tighten your side cover before noticing. Otherwise this happens, and your case will leak. Being on the bottom, I only noticed as the last thing I was doing was to hook up the reverse lockout cable, and I noticed there was no resistance.

I'm currently in the 24 hour "set up" period of my gasket maker gasket, but the good thing about going the "make it yourself" route, is the gasket maker should have no problems sealing this. I could have just used a little bit on the front and back of a proper gasket, but I didn't feel like waiting for one to ship. I feel pretty confident this will work.

I'll know tomorrow if my Teflon tape and gasket maker tricks worked. I'll post back up with the results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Ok, so last update for now. Everything is holding, no more leaks. My current fix was teflon plumbers tape around the threads and gasket maker around the bolt washer area. No idea if it was one or both that did it, but it's not leaking. If I had to do it over again, I would have tapped it out to M14 1.75 and bought the M14 oil drain bolt from Honda that was posted above.

I don't want to have to wrap the bolt and use gasket maker every time I change the oil. So I'm likely going to do one of the "bolts within a bolt" setups at my next oil change, clean the area really well of oil, teflon the threads and JB weld the thing to the bottom of the engine. It's tucked up in the frame in such a way I'm not worried about it sticking out some. As long as it doesn't end up sticking out past the skidplate/frame brace there. If it does, then I'll have to go with some sort of quick connect. But those are $$$.

I'll wrap up this post once I get my final solution.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,713 Posts
This is one of those jobs where if it's not repaired properly it's going to cost you big bucks!

My solution would be to weld a 1/2 piece of aluminium over the existing drain and put your new thread and drain plug into that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
This is one of those jobs where if it's not repaired properly it's going to cost you big bucks!

My solution would be to weld a 1/2 piece of aluminium over the existing drain and put your new thread and drain plug into that.
I would, if I could weld aluminum. Or at all. Yeah, yeah, I'm one of those car guys who never learned to weld. Always meant to get around to it, but I never had anyone in my family who welded. My boss does, but he's not great at it. He's about the only person I know who even tries.

It's on the list. But I doubt I'll ever learn TIG.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
36,410 Posts
first mistake is getting in too much of a hurry , rushing your work !. your not paying attention to what and how things go together ?, then this leads to the reverse spring popping down from the engine case, and causing your oil leak. I see this a lot, been there, done that..lol. slow and steady ALWAYS wins the repair race !.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,547 Posts
should you decide to get it welded, which i think is the best choice so far..
there are plenty of machine shops, people that do welding, for a living, and other resources, in my area, but i have to ask around more lately then i did in the past, to find these places. i got friends that help me find people, or places. the grapevine...
just saying.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,353 Posts
How low is the oil temp sensor in the right side case cover of a 300FW? I'm thinking if it is low enough, JB weld the oil drain plug in place, and do your oil draining out the oil temp sensor hole. Heck, lean it to the right side a tad when draining to get the hole even lower.

Edit: I just did some google image searching of the right crankcase covers. The oil temp sensor is pretty low, just above the oil screen and looks very accessible. That's what I'd do if this were mine and I didn't have access to good aluminum welding or didn't want to split the cases....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,279 Posts
there is a special plug for draining a transmission pan , it has a nut on the inside to sandwich the pan after drilling a hole , you could throw the nut away and use CRC MinuteMend and basically glue that plug into the hole , cut the length to the thickness of the case at the drain hole , the middle of the plug comes out -------you could do the same thing with a bushing and a plug
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,651 Posts
I've never tried this, but when i FIRST started spinning wrenches @ johnnys, (way back) i witnessed little johnny change the oil in a 2wd 300 (half way stripped plug) and simply, he took the filter cover off and filter out, stuck a catch pan under the bike and started it up @ idol only, worked perfectly, she pumped MOST of oil out, the bike is still runs perfectly to this day. More then one way to skin a cat, but this one i don't think I'd try.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,547 Posts
maybe it was the synthetic oil that stripped it out , I used synthetic one time and the engine blew up , I ain't lying !!!
i gotta add a tale to this also. the 5HP boat motor, 50's johnson, had been running on regular oil 30w, in the gas, for many years, the owner told me. so, i used regular oil. it ran good but smoked, and fumed. sooo, i get 2 cycle marine oil to mix with the gas.. the first time out it blew the engine. cracked up a piston skirt, and locked the engine. if i hadnt mixed the oil proper, i would not have been as mad as i was.
ya gotta know your limitation's. :grin
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,279 Posts
Many times I seen after changing the oil in a automatic transmission , the transmission went out , could be coinensidence
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,353 Posts
Many times I seen after changing the oil in a automatic transmission , the transmission went out , could be coinensidence
Yep happens when the atf is left to get too old and too many deposits build up. New atf with its strong additives and detergent package breaks up those deposits rapidly, and send chunks into tight passageways and valves, etc.

I had a buddy who bought a Honda Accord with 125k miles one time, told me his tranny was acting rough. Checked his atf it was BLACK. Told him his tranny might make another 5-25k miles with atf like that, or he could gradually try to get new fluid in there. I said whatever you do, do NOT do a tranny flush or get out 100% of the old fluid and put in new fluid.

But I said to gradually get new fluid in there and get out the old deposits. Since his tranny pan had a drain bolt, doing half of the fluid at a time was easy. Did drain and fills once every 2 weeks, first 3 it kept coming out black. Shifting improved right away though. After 4 or 5 drain and fills the fluid started looking red.

That was 5 years ago and that tranny is shifting like new and still going strong.
@doonze I forgot that fishfiles had spoken highly of minute mend before. That could be used to put your M14 in there solid and then drain through the oil temp sensor port like I mentioned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Yeah, I've had many autos die after a flush or change. It's insane how often. Makes you never want to bother.

I think my bolt within a bolt idea is as good as any. Last time I tried to find someone to weld aluminum it was like trying to buy crack. It won't hurt anything to try, and if it doesn't work then I try something else. Any "real" solution at this point world require pulling the engine and grinding down that lip perfectly flat. That's a last resort as I don't have any help and a bad back. But I'll do it if it comes to that.

Cheap, easy, simple first. I'm not too keen on running it dry out the filter. And I don't see a current advantage to plugging it up and draining or the side of the case. While both would work, they seem more risky and more trouble than just installing a bolt with a smaller bolt inside it. Those are made for exactly this situation.

But great ideas guys if simple doesn't work!! One step at a time!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,353 Posts
Yeah, I've had many autos die after a flush or change. It's insane how often. Makes you never want to bother.

I think my bolt within a bolt idea is as good as any. Last time I tried to find someone to weld aluminum it was like trying to buy crack. It won't hurt anything to try, and if it doesn't work then I try something else. Any "real" solution at this point world require pulling the engine and grinding down that lip perfectly flat. That's a last resort as I don't have any help and a bad back. But I'll do it if it comes to that.

Cheap, easy, simple first. I'm not too keen on running it dry out the filter. And I don't see a current advantage to plugging it up and draining or the side of the case. While both would work, they seem more risky and more trouble than just installing a bolt with a smaller bolt inside it. Those are made for exactly this situation.

But great ideas guys if simple doesn't work!! One step at a time!
I'm surprised your bigger drain bolt with a sealing washer didn't seal. Is there space to remove a little extra from the lip? As long as you have a full circumference of flat area, could be pretty narrow but as long as it has a flat width for the sealing washer to push tight against, it should seal right up.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
About this Discussion
20 Replies
8 Participants
doonze
Honda ATV Forum
We’re a forum community dedicated to Honda ATV owners & enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about upgrades and reliability for your Rancher, Foreman, Recon, FourTrax, Pioneer, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Top