[Jeepwm69]

So I've found that on gen 2 and gen 3 TRX300's, and 350 Ranchers, you can start in gear if you ground the CDI and the starter solenoid.

I really like the factory setup on the later bikes that require you pull the right brake handle to start in gear, especially given that the 350 I'm working on now will be for my daughter.

Is it feasible that I run a wire spliced into the solenoid ground up to the CDI, and tie that wire into the CDI ground there as well....

What I'm thinking is install a 420/500 brake master cylinder assembly with the double micro switches on it (one for tail light, one presumably for the start in gear feature)

Hook the tail lights on the 350 to one of the switches.

On the other switch, put the wire coming off of the CDI/ Solenoid to one terminal, and then a wire coming off the other switch terminal to ground.

Wouldn't this ground the solenoid and CDI when the lever is pulled, only allowing it to start in gear when the brake is pulled back?

 

[fishfiles]

Mel , would be the one to tell you about that ! He seems to be the Guru of all things electrical

seems if I were to take the wire that I have ground and run it to a micro switch that was activated by the hand lever and from the mocro switch to ground , then it would do what you want

I have 3 of them now that start in gear because of reduction gear mods , and it is very dangerous , seems even more so with a reduction as it geared down so low the bike will just about pop a wheelie on crank up , never hit anything yet , but would never let just anyone ride my bikes , especially my wife

 

[Jeepwm69]

Yeah, that's why I want the brake feature.

I've already picked up a couple of 500 Foreman brake M/C/ Lever assemblies from PSN.

Just making sure I'm hypothesizing (?) this correctly.

 

[Carolynskii]

Psh ... only you or Mel would know that Jeep lol

 

[SamUK]

Does that wire need to be constantly grounded or only temporarily whilst hitting the start button? (I don’t know). If it’s the latter then it will work perfectly jeep.
If it were me I’d just use a dirt bike kill switch.

 

[Melatv]

Hi Jeep: It's best to use a momentary toggle switch mounted some place on the bike -- If mounted with the brake lever -- each time the brake lever is pulled the starter solenoid will energize with the bike running.

"Sam" just put a flash in my head -- you could use a relay to operate the starter from the start button when the bike is in gear.

 

[Jeepwm69]

So the starter solenoid is grounded when you hit the start button?

I thought the start button sent + to the solenoid.

I was going off of this write-up on doing the start in gear feature, which recommends permanently grounding the solenoid and CDI, with reportedly no effects on the rest of the bike's function.

Start in gear mod for some honda's by Dynamo - PH Customz

 

[Melatv]

Hi: I will draw you up a diagram.

 

[Melatv]

Hi Jeep: This will start the bike in gear just by push in on the start button.

Are you going to be using this on a 300?

 

[Jeepwm69]

LOL

Mel, you give me way to much credit on understanding wiring.

I think I kind of understand what you're trying to tell me, but can you put it in "Red wire goes to 87, green with red tracer goes to 85" etc?

I'm thinking what you're trying to tell me is to have a relay hooked in that would be grounded (engaging the solenoid) when I pull the brake lever, and then actuated when I hit the start button.

So clip yellow from start button, hook starter switch side to 86,
Ground wire from brake lever goes to 85
Battery power is already hooked to solenoid
87 would go to yellow wire leading into solenoid.

Is that right?

Only problem with that is I would have to hit the brake lever to start even in Neutral.

Did I miss something?

 

[Melatv]

Hi: What bike are you putting this on??

 

[Melatv]

Hi Jeep: You don't need to use a brake lever -- You don't have to cut any wires just tap into them. When the bike is not in Neutral -- just push the start button -- the relay pulls in the starter solenoid pull in --then solenoid drop out when the start button is released.

The easy spot would be right at the starter solenoid to connect every thing up.

Black wire (86) just tap into the Y/R on the starter solenoid
Green wire (85) connect it to ground

Red wire (30) just tap into Light green/Red
Yellow wire (87) just connect it to ground

The 300 & 350 are the same.

 

[LedFTed]

Jeep; are trying to get it where it wont start in gear?, for your daughter. thats how i took it at the beginning of the thread. //Ed

 

[Jeepwm69]

I'm trying to figure out a way to have it work like the 420's; start in Neutral or start in gear but only start in gear when the right brake is pulled back.

I have a Foreman right brake lever with two microswitches, one for brake lights and one to wire in some sort of start in gear while brake lever is held back feature, but am trying to figure out how to wire it in

 

[Jeepwm69]

Mel this is an 05 350 Rancher, but I'd like to do the same with the 2nd Gen 300's i have.

 

[retro]

That's a great idea Jeep! I'll give it a shot... but I hope Mel will correct me if I am wrong here...? Or if there is a better/simpler way to do this mod?

The 350 and 420 starting systems look the same to me, except the 420 has the inhibitor switch on the front brake lever added to provide a momentary ground for the Lg/R wire (ICM & Solenoid ground -- normally provided by the gear position switch in Neutral) plus a diode was added between the inhibitor switch and the gear position switch. The wire colors for the gear position switch are the same on your '05 350 ES and the '07-'10 420.

First pic is your 350 Rancher ES schematic, second pic is the 420 schematic, third pic is the gear position switch wire colors for both systems along with a FSM photo of the 8P connector on your 350 attached to the frame, right next to a handy frame ground bolt.

If you do it that way, make sure the added diode is installed so the gear position switch will light up the Neutral light when the bike is in neutral.

 

[Melatv]

Hi: "Retro's find" -- just drawing it up. The 350 diagram above is wrong -- not the same as the 350 main wiring diagram for the Lg/R wire. It shows Lg/R in to spots, that said you have to use the Lg/R wire on the Gear position switch. New brake lever switch you are adding in Dia.

 

[Jeepwm69]

That's a great idea Jeep! I'll give it a shot... but I hope Mel will correct me if I am wrong here...? Or if there is a better/simpler way to do this mod?

The 350 and 420 starting systems look the same to me, except the 420 has the inhibitor switch on the front brake lever added to provide a momentary ground for the Lg/R wire (ICM & Solenoid ground -- normally provided by the gear position switch in Neutral) plus a diode was added between the inhibitor switch and the gear position switch. The wire colors for the gear position switch are the same on your '05 350 ES and the '07-'10 420.

First pic is your 350 Rancher ES schematic, second pic is the 420 schematic, third pic is the gear position switch wire colors for both systems along with a FSM photo of the 8P connector on your 350 attached to the frame, right next to a handy frame ground bolt.

If you do it that way, make sure the added diode is installed so the gear position switch will light up the Neutral light when the bike is in neutral.

The link I posted on the first page said that simply by grounding the LG/R wire at the solenoid, and doing the same at the CDI would allow the 350 Rancher to start in gear, without messing up function of any of the indicator lamps.

That's why I was thinking it would be as easy as instead of hooking them to ground, hooking them through the microswitch which would then ground them only when the brake lever is held back.

Wouldn't putting it in Neutral still ground the circuit? Not sure why a diode is needed.

Hi: "Retro's find" -- just drawing it up. The 350 diagram above is wrong -- not the same as the 350 main wiring diagram for the Lg/R wire. It shows Lg/R in to spots, that said you have to use the Lg/R wire on the Gear position switch. New brake lever switch you are adding in Dia.

The 350 diagram Retro Posted is in the FSM, section 19-0.

That's why I can't make heads or tails of electrical diagrams.

 

[Jeepwm69]

I just reread the writeup I posted on page 1.

The directions say to PERMANANTLY GROUND the solenoid and CDI, which means running grounds to those components. With those components always grounded, the bike always thinks it's in Neutral, but with the wires going into the main harness not connected, the Neutral light will work as it's supposed to since the ground can't backfeed to the Neutral light.

That's what I missed the first time I read it.

So, let's revisit this.

Snip the LG/R wire going to the solenoid and ground LG/R wire coming off the solenoid to the - battery post. Leave the hanging end of the LG/R wire hanging there unattached.

Ground a wire, run to one side of handlebar microswitch. Run wire from other side of microswitch, tying into the LG/R wire going to the CDI. This will trick the CDI into thinking that it's in Neutral when the brake lever is pulled back.

Install a diode in the LG/R wire going towards the bike of the bike, with the arrow pointing away from the CDI. I believe that will keep the Neutral light from illuminating every time the brake lever is pulled back, as it will stop the ground from backfeeding. It will, however, allow ground to pass through TO the CDI when the bike is in neutral.

What's the verdict?

 

[Melatv]

I just reread the writeup I posted on page 1.

The directions say to PERMANANTLY GROUND the solenoid and CDI, which means running grounds to those components. With those components always grounded, the bike always thinks it's in Neutral, but with the wires going into the main harness not connected, the Neutral light will work as it's supposed to since the ground can't backfeed to the Neutral light.

That's what I missed the first time I read it.

So, let's revisit this.

Snip the LG/R wire going to the solenoid and ground LG/R wire coming off the solenoid to the - battery post. Leave the hanging end of the LG/R wire hanging there unattached.

Ground a wire, run to one side of handlebar microswitch. Run wire from other side of microswitch, tying into the LG/R wire going to the CDI. This will trick the CDI into thinking that it's in Neutral when the brake lever is pulled back.

Install a diode in the LG/R wire going towards the bike of the bike, with the arrow pointing away from the CDI. I believe that will keep the Neutral light from illuminating every time the brake lever is pulled back, as it will stop the ground from backfeeding. It will, however, allow ground to pass through TO the CDI when the bike is in neutral.

What's the verdict?

Hi: Forget about the above. Just use the Diagram I made up. Do you also need a Diagram for the brake light?