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Yep, I was gonna suggest that it might be the insulator broken out under the positive lead bolt. The inside square edges is a dead giveaway. I hope you can buy that insulator separately from the positive brush kit...? Use grease on the threads when you reassemble and don't overtighten the bolts.

The graphite collecting inside the starter motor is normal. It is shedded off from the brushes as they wear. Graphite is mixed in with the brushes compound when they're cast to lubricate the commutator bars, minimizing friction and preventing arcing & pitting. Without graphite lube they don't live very long. You can just blow that loose dust out or wash it out using hot, soapy water before reassembling the motor. Don't use any solvents to clean up inside an electric motor. And don't drop it... the ferrite magnets will shatter.

DO NOT polish the graphite coating off from the commutator bars. It took a long time to build that protective layer... don't destroy it. If the commutator is damaged you can chuck it up on a lathe and take up to .015" off the diameter to restore the surface, then follow by polishing the commutator on the lathe using oiled 400 grit sandpaper. Thats the only valid reason you'd ever find to remove that graphite layer. Its important... its not dirt, leave it be.

I don't see anything wrong with that pulse generator. If the plastic is not cracked open and it measures good, run it.
 

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Ahh forgot... you mentioned the shims in the starter motor... those are stacked on each end of the armature to limit shaft end-play and to center the armature windings inside the magnetic field between the field magnets. There may be several shims or very few.... don't worry if it seems like you might have gotten cheated on your stacks, just don't mix those shims up or forget which end of the shaft each stack came from, its all been setup from the factory. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #83
Thanks for the help! I'm getting the positive brush kit, but I cannot order the insulator! It's not anywhere to be found, and there is no number on the ordering diagram on rockymountain. There is a little bit of it left in the starter but i'm not sure if that's enough to properly insulate. I might have to jerry rig something to insulate. Any suggestions?

Also, random questions about rockymountain and back ordering. How long does that take? The stator and reg/rec are on "backorder", but the available date keeps changing. What should i expect?
 

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Don;t that insulator come with the positive brush kit? You'll need to replace that regardless... if it don't come with the brush kit and bolt set you might find one inside one of those cheap china kits on ebay. But it should be part of the OEM brush set.

I got no idea what sort of time delay you should expect with back ordered parts.
 

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Discussion Starter #85
Could the kit be found somewhere else? I'm ordering off of the part picker diagram.
 

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I see it pictured on the diagram but there is no part number, as you said. The positive brush lead does not include that insulator either. I'll look around and link one when its found.
 

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I didn't find that insulator being sold separately. The cheapest way out might be one of these for $10.60 shipped:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Repair-Kit-Honda-450-TRX450S-FourTrax-Foreman-S-1998-2004-Honda-ATV/290752673209

Just toss the kit in the garbage after you've scrounged the insulator out of the package. You might like the new nuts and washers etc. too, but don't put those crappy brushes in your starter.

The interchange list for that positive brush kit is linked below, notice that any Honda ATV two-brush Mitsuba starter insulator will fit, they're all the same.

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/31201-KS5-901
 

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Discussion Starter #88
I just lost my whole reply because the website refreshed but to summarize, thanks for that idea, I ordered the crappy kit and I'll use that insulator. I also just dropped 450 bucks on the stator and other parts. My wallet hurts, and my heart is confused but I'm really hoping I can make this thing last. It needs a new life after 13 years of hard work.

While I wait on the parts, I'll need to fix the steering column bearing, and I'll probably need some help with that one...

Thanks guys.
 

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Ya, this site sucks eggs. The owners are disgusting parasites and don't care about anything but controlling the harvesting of personal data, so they only maintain it so that the site works well for them. If you're posting on a phone you're usually screwed... if on a computer you can open a text editor and hold everything you type in your editor until it successfully submits, which is what I do on every post now.

Ya, may as well fix whatever else you can while waiting for parts. It sounds like you are doing darn good, careful & thorough work. Wear a confident smile and enjoy your experiences! I sure am... :)
 

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I just lost my whole reply because the website refreshed but to summarize, thanks for that idea, I ordered the crappy kit and I'll use that insulator. I also just dropped 450 bucks on the stator and other parts. My wallet hurts, and my heart is confused but I'm really hoping I can make this thing last. It needs a new life after 13 years of hard work.

While I wait on the parts, I'll need to fix the steering column bearing, and I'll probably need some help with that one...

Thanks guys.
we charge extra for steering shaft bearings !!..lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #91
I would too if I were you :big-grin

I have one last question I think about all this. How could I check if the reg/rec is bad, and would it be? Could the battery alone caused all the over volting issues, or is the reg/rec also to blame?

Thanks!
 

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my money is on the reg/rec.
 

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We've already explained all of that in great detail. Check the charging voltage once you get it running. If it overcharges or undercharges, replace the regulator.
he's rehashing problems..lol.
 

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Ya I understand tho... he's got 450 sum'olly'uns tied up in RMATV orders. Wants to be sure that he's got all the bases covered so this cannot happen again. Plus he's super-interested in learning and understanding cause-effect electrical issue relationships. Questioning is good... keep 'em coming if ya think of anything new. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #97
Big update. After having to cancel orders from rockymountain (because they were being stupid and sh**ty and making me wait over a month for one part), and having to wait weeks from partzilla I finally got my stator and regulator. I put it all together and screwed up the first time by putting the shifting fork in too low so it would only shift up, not down. Then after I pulled the motor back out to fix that, as I was re-tightening the case together a bolt snapped. So it might leak now who knows. I'm really mad, and really depressed from this all. I spent a lot trying to make this work as good as it can, and make it last as long as it can and then this happens. This is normla for me though, I never have good luck with anything. Litterally anything. Anyways, I tried starting it after many many many hours of work and it kinda did something. I have spark, which is good, but it won't idle. And when I gas it, it runs terrible. Very violent and shaky, and so loud. If I let off the gas it just dies. Trying anything without choke just doesn't work. I just want to be done with this. What do you guys think is the problem? I don't really know where to start, and I have always had bad luck with carburetors, I don't really understand them like I thought I did. Thanks.

P.S. This bike hasn't run in about a year. I put fresh 87 octane gas in it, never cleaned the carb though.
 

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Congrats on your stator replacement which fixed the ignition! Don't be discouraged, take a break to celebrate! Take it one step at a time and keep us in the loop so we can help ya.

Now then, can you show us which case bolt snapped off? And did that case go back on without using any force on it? Does everything (neutral light, reverse light, shifter, etc.) work?

You mentioned it being noisy... as in a noisy exhaust, or mechanical noise?

I imagine that the carb and fuel system are quite needy after sitting for a year. Especially if it had any ethanol-laced fuel left in the tank. So lets clean and fix those issues... beginning with the fuel tank and petcock. Then we'll move on to cleaning the needy carb. One step at a time... follow the service manual guidelines to a Tee during every step and lean on us for advice and questions.

But first lets talk about that snapped case bolt and related questions.
 

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all that work, and a carb that never got cleaned after sitting for a very long time ?. you must go through your fuel system, starting from the fuel tank..all the way to and through the carb !.
 

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Discussion Starter #100
All the electrics work, even the nuetral switch and everything else the bolt that snapped was the bolt right above where the neutral switch comes out of the case. I filled it with Honda bond to prevent leaking and in the future I'll drill it out and replace it, but it doesn't seem to bad as of right now. Cleaning the carb and the petcock are all detailed in the FSM? And its not a mechanical noise i dont think but it runs reaaaally rough and wont idle. almost sounds out of time
 
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