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Discussion Starter #41
I don't really have a time limit but I've been off work since Wednesday, and I go back to work Monday, so I have been trying to work on it as much as possible. I can just order a new meter and an adapter, as I'm going to need them in the future anyways. And if the stator is bad, I don't know what I'd do, the engine is shaft drive which makes things complicated, and hard to work on. Would it be easier to take it to a Honda dealer to fix it? I'm confident that I can get the job done, I just fear it's very very difficult. I've heard horror stories of re-aligning the drive shaft....

Is there anything else I can do right now?
 

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Well, you have tested every component (except CDI) in the ignition system along with every wire and ground going to/from the CDI in the harnesses. So the ignition tests are done... and the exciter coil seems to have failed, best as we can tell. We don't have solid proof though.

You might plug in your new CDI and see if you get spark? If you do, then the exciter coil is fine... and its your meter that is junk.

Make sure everything is plugged in on the bike and the battery is installed before cranking it over to test for spark. Don't forget to put the diode in it. Double check everything.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
I don't want to risk frying the new CDI though... why would the exciter coil send voltage if it was dead? And what could have caused it to die?
 

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The exciter coil probably can't produce any AC voltage if it is open, which your meter shows that it is open. But you say you detect AC voltage on that Black/Red wire, so the exciter coil test is inconclusive.

Lets push that test a bit further downstream... After you plug everything back in (CDI, Stator, switches, etc.), you should be able to detect that same amount of AC voltage you saw on the exciter coil Black/Red wire... on the Black/Yellow wire connecting to the ignition coil. Report back with that finding.

FYI: The CDI cannot get fried unless battery voltage is applied to it. So if the wiring harnesses have not been spliced, damaged, or hacked in to, battery voltage cannot reach the CDI. In fact, the ignition switch and the kill switch on the handlebar short the CDI primary voltage each time the motor is shut off. That is how an AC-CDI ignition is shut off. See the diagram attached... no battery voltage is supplied to the CDI.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
I'll run those tests in the morning. First, I have a question. Some multi meters have a MIN/MAX function, and people are going back and fourth on if this is the same as Peak Voltage.
From the looks of it, it is very similar to Peak Voltage, but digital multi meters only read RMS, which won't give the most accurate peak. So people say that you use the MIN/MAX function to get the max voltage, and then divide it by .707 to get the top of the peak, as RMS is 7/10ths shorter from the peak?
Would you agree with this? Here's a forum post that I got this from, take a look if you have time: https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/876227-how-can-i-measure-peak-voltage/
 

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That is a great question! I didn't read that link but the answer to your question is, both yes (professionals) and no. And in most cases while testing ignition components on ATVs for peak AC voltage, for 99.99% of the amateurs that drop in here every week with no spark... the answer is No.

The strategy and the math is correct, however that method is dependent upon the techs ability to capture the data and capture (and record) it accurately at varying frequencies. The biggest issue folks will have with that method is that the quality, capability, speed and accuracy of the measurement tool may be very low-grade. Very few own lab grade equipment, most folks buy cheap china knockoffs that suck at everything.

So it is best practice to use the proper tools for the job in these cases. Which requires a peak voltage adapter alongside a meter having a minimum 10 megOhms/DC volt impedance spec. If there was a shortcut that actually worked everyone would be using it.

Change of subject sort of... You will need a much better meter and a PVA to diagnose this bike any better/further than what we have already accomplished here. We are done with it unless something changes. Tests were inconclusive unfortunately. Decision time...

Thanks for all the fun stuff so far!
 

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Discussion Starter #47
I got nothing off of the black/yellow wire with the old and with the new CDI.... I installed all the new parts I bought and nothing changed, no spark... I don't know what to do. This sucks.
 

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Ya, it sucks. You need a capable meter and a PVA to continue. I imagine the exciter coil is bad, but ya gotta have proof before buying one. I can mail you a meter and a PVA so you can finish this if you wish? You'd only need to pay the postage on your end to send them back to me. PM me your address if you're interested.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
I really appreciate the offer, but I want to be patient and buy my own stuff, as I'll need it in the future. Thanks for the offer though, it is very kind.

And I agree, I'm not buying anymore parts unless I know for sure they are bad, learned that the hard way..... with 100+ bucks down the toilet lol

Just wondering, I know I'd have to pull the engine out to replace the stator, but would I have problems with the drive shaft? I've heard that it's a nightmare to like re-align or something.
 

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No, its not very difficult at all. The manual covers it well... you'll need a decent set of tools. The stator is held into the rear motor cover with three bolts so it'll be easy once that cover is off. Just follow directions and you'll be fine.
 

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Yes, the driveshaft yoke just slides onto the output shaft splines like any other Honda ATV. I don't know where you got your fears, but they are all unfounded. Your bike is 2wd, so it is a lot easier (less work) to get the motor in and out than on 4wd bikes having a front driveshaft. Read section 6 of the FSM for the step-by-step motor R&R procedure.

Also note that the stator can be replaced while the motor is left in the frame. That procedure is well presented in the manual. Its your call... I recommend that you choose an approach where you are the most confident and comfortable. Always do your best work no matter what it takes. Learn patience. And smile a lot. :)

EDIT: Added an attachment.
 

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Another tip... pull the flywheel off after taking the rear cover off and check the woodruff key on the crankshaft/flywheel to make sure it has not sheared. You haven't explained the events surrounding the ignition failure way back when... its possible that the woodruff key sheared which can leave you with no spark if the flywheel slips on the crank far enough. Check it out in the manual. You'll need to buy a puller to get that flywheel off, but they are usually under $20 shipped.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Thanks for all the info!! This is going to seriously help me out. So I can actually get the stator out with the engine in-frame? It seems like a tight fit to me haha.
Also, I think the woodruff key is fine, because when I put the bike in gear it acts normally. Also, I just doubt it's damaged, but I will definitely check it out just to be sure.
I'll keep this thread updated.
 

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Also, I think the woodruff key is fine, because when I put the bike in gear it acts normally. Also, I just doubt it's damaged, but I will definitely check it out just to be sure.
I think it stands a good chance of being fine too, but never assume anything... one's own thinking is what often leads us to failure. Never assume... not ever... quit it.

A sheared woodruff key can cause a no spark condition. Since we are unable to conclusively test any of the ignition components the key should be checked each time the stator is removed from the motor. You've heard the term used before... Best Practice. Others say Work Smart. Same thing...

Anyway, you still have to test every ignition component again using a decent multimeter and a PVA adapter before you do anything else.

I have been working on a large electronics components order (one of my hobbys) these last few days and I *think* that I got everything on my lists all ordered up now. Some of those parts might take over a week to arrive. But once everything is put away I intend to make up some PVAs, along with some Front diff clutch voltage regulators for a couple guys bikes on the forums. I'd like to mail you a PVA to keep for nothing. Free gratis. You'd be one step closer... less than $10 away actually, from your goal of having your own test equipment. I'll let you know once I have a couple of them made up.

In the meantime, why don't you buy that $9.69 china meter from Amazon that I linked earlier? They are being sold on eBay for about $2 more and that Tougs M202 meter is one of the best cheap china models that you can buy. Sure, it is unsafe to use in high energy environments, but it is perfect for working on ATVs in the shop. If you step on it and crush it accidentally in the shop, who cares... right!? Look it up... it is a rebranded VC17B+ made by Zotek. That same model is more often sold as an Aneng AN860B+.

These cheap china meters made by Zotek have a hackable chipset in them, they can be vastly improved by swapping in a few high quality capacitors, resistors & diodes, are good enough right out of the box to do the work at hand and they are cheap enough to be considered as a useless disposable! I own two different Zotek models right now, both were sold as Tougs brand (which I prefer because of the dark case colors) and both cost less than $10 each. They work great... save up and buy a good Fluke (for safety) for working in high energy environments and buy one of those china models for the garage. I loan mine out often cause I got nothing to lose if they don't come back.

Think about it...
 

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About 9 months later, and I've got an update! First I want to give a massive thanks to everyone who helped me out so long ago, all the information I got, and all the stuff I learned has helped me out ALOT. So thanks everyone.

Alright, I've been busy with life, and mainly winter so I haven't had time to do any work to all these problems I've been having on my quad. But for the past weeks it's been getting warmer and I have been on spring break. I ordered a PVA (this was what I bought) and I used it to test most of the ignition components. First, I checked the pulse coil which gave 6.8/6.9v at the connector, and 6.9/7.0v at the CDI connector. The FSM said at least 0.7v. Then I tested the exciter coil and it read 0.5v at connector, and 0.2v at the CDI connector. The FSM said it should be at least 100v. So i'm assuming this is whats wrong with the bike. The exciter coil is f'd and not generating power. I have not tested the alternator for the charging system yet but i will. I have a feeling it won't work either. I tested the coil and it didn't give me anything, which makes sense because it does't have any power from the CDI, which doesn't have any power from the exciter coil. What should I do? Should I get a new stator? Should I stick whith OEM (expensive) or get a nice after market (cheaper)? also is there something else I should check?

FYI im using a shifty walmart DMM called the: etek 10709
I also typed this fast so there are probably errors but I wanted to get this up before I go to work so when I get back I might have some replies.

Thanks for the help.
 

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Hey, happy to see that you're back at it!

Ya, as we suspected previously (but we had no proof) the exciter coil is bad! Congrats for hanging in there! And for getting a PVA to provide you with proof!

In answer of your question... my advice is replace with a genuine Honda OEM stator ONLY. Every aftermarket brand of stator that you'll find for sale for your bike WILL be a cheap china knockoff, for export to USA/EU only, so don't waste any of your time and your money on known china garbage.

If you need to relieve some pain, find a good working used OEM Honda Stator for replacement. Or buy new OEM if you are serious about maintaining this bike long term.

Let us know how it goes for ya!
 

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Discussion Starter #58 (Edited)
Thanks for the reply! I do plan on having this awhile and want to put the best parts I can in it. I have a few questions though.
For one, should I get a new pulse coil too? Just in case?
the cheapest OEM stator and pulse coil I could find are here. But I am not sure if this is a very trustworthy place to get what they say are OEM parts. Are there any recommendations as to where I should buy from? All my previous parts I bought came from Rocky Mountain and I trust them, and I'd figure you guys do too. The price difference between the two is $219 for Rocky Mountain and $201 for Parts Pit Stop for both the stator and pulse coil, so I'm thinking spending 18 bucks more isn't a bad price to pay because I'll know they are coming from a trustworthy place right? What are your thoughts?

Oh and one last question, is it possible for me to change out the stator without pulling the motor out? I only ask because idk how to deal with the driveshaft, and or if it can be easily disconnected or whatever.

Sorry for all the questions, but I know a lot of you guys know ALOT more about all this stuff and whats good vs. whats bad.

Thanks everyone (especially you retro)!

EDIT:
I forgot to ask! Why did this happen in the first place? Did the coil just short out? And if so, how do I prevent a new one from shorting out again? Was it the heat?
 

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yep, all the work can be done with motor in frame :).
 

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If you are asking me for advice...? Well, I have not ever done any business with partspitstop before, so rockymountainatv (from the OEM parts catalog link) is always my 1st personal choice. I go with RMATV over partzilla (partzilla is sometimes cheaper) 100% of the time because partzilla CS sucks and they apparently think that lying to customers is an acceptable practice. Another good parts vendor that I use sometimes is HondaEastToledo. Bottom line... I'll pay more to certain vendors, while expecting less... where the vendor has proven itself to be honest and trustworthy in the past. Its your money and its your call though...

Yes, you can change the stator out without first removing the motor from the frame. But in all honesty...? I'd personally rather yank the motor out of the frame so I could do that job on the bench, and thats how I'd do it everytime! You'll see a lot more relevant stuff, and see things a lot clearer... see stuff going on that might have been unexpected, and you can do a much better, more thorough job while the work is within easy reach of hands and eyeballs directly in front of you. Maintaining cleanliness comes to mind... which is very important to me... an' tearing gaskets while the back muscles are bent and twisted overtop a bike frame ain't no fun either...!!!! Yank it! :)

And take your darn time! Humans always fail to think things through whenever they get in a hurry. If I'm no exception to those realities, then neither are you...! :)

Don't forget to share... we love pics as much as we love questions!
 
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