Honda ATV Forum banner

21 - 40 of 105 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
As of right now I still don't really know what killed the CDI. It just seemed like over volting or a bad battery caused it, or maybe a short because of the bad taillight all rusted.
Dad-blame it, quit saying that!!! Why do you believe the CDI is dead? The CDI runs on AC from the exciter coil, not DC battery voltage. The CDI cannot be "overvolted", as you put it. The CDI cannot be affected by a bad battery. The CDI cannot be affected by a shorted tail light circuit. Forget about all that... your CDI might be perfectly fine! THERE IS NO BATTERY VOLTAGE EVER BEING SUPPLIED TO THE IGNITION CIRCUIT.

The stator has seperate windings? I didn't know that. And I don't think the wiring harness was messed with.
Yes, the stator contains the exciter coil windings which supply power for the ignition system only. And has entirely separate alternator windings that supply power for the battery charging system only.

I tested the two yellow wires (all according to the manual) and the resistance was supposed to be 0.1-1.0 ohms, and with my meter's dial set to 200 ohms nothing was picked up. It also said to check continuity between the yellow wires and ground, and once again nothing was picked up. Note that I checked my meter by touching various body parts on the atv with grounding, and it beeped with continuity.
Try turning off the continuity test mode on your meter and move the dial to a lower ohms range setting.

I get about .6-.7 ohms between my two yellow charging lines off of the connector, which is within range, but there is continuity between the wires! It beeps either way no matter what polarity of probe between the yellow wires, but it never did this off of the connector from the charging coil. So why now? With the the ohms in range, but continuity I don't know what this means, as the manual doesn't specify if there should be continuity.
Again, turn that confounded continuity beeper off and read the Ohms of resistance measurement only. You are measuring resistance in a circuit... not trying to detect a short or disprove continuity. Those are two entirely different functions that your meter provides.

You've gotten way off track. Now you are checking the DC battery charging system components rather than the ignition system components. Those two circuits are 100% independent of each other. The ignition is a closed AC-CDI system with no connection to any other circuit on the bike.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
I just noticed that the service manual has incorrect information in the kill switch test!!! Use my corrected image attached to this post and start over... test the ignition switch and the kill switch on the handlebar by checking for continuity as shown.

EDIT:
You will be checking for continuity (turn your beeper on) between the Black wire with a White stripe (Bl/W) and the Green wire on BOTH; the ignition switch plug and the kill switch plug. Unplug them both from the main harness for testing.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
Sorry about being a knuckle head, I'm not super 100% with a multimeter, and I'm just trying to make sure what I'm doing is correct, and clearly it's not lol. The lowest setting is 200 ohms, which only shows one decimal point. Thanks for clearing up how the ignition system is a closed system.

What should I test on the ignition side? I'll re test the ignition switch and the kill switch as well as the stator connector.

Also I think the ignition switch that is currently installed was a replacement part in the past because it still has a tag with a bar code on the wire, and teh tag is old and dirty.
Again, I'm sorry I'm stupid, I'm trying to just figure this all out as stupid as I am.

Thanks for dealing with my dumbness.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,278 Posts
Retro , what about this scenario ? the voltage regulator goes haywire and over charges the DC circuit with say 20+ volts DC and high voltage takes out the CDI ----
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
Nevermind my humor linksg, its pretty dry. I used to work around a guy many years ago who was always telling jokes. Funny guy... but when others would tease or poke fun at him joking around like guys in the shop do, he'd get quiet and flustered. He'd say "Dad blame-it quit that!" once he'd had enough ribbing and we'd all laugh and get back to our work. He came to mind as I began to type is all... and ain't no one here any dumber 'n me... Hang in there man, and if'n ya get flustered ya know what to say. :)
@fishfiles his bike has an AC-CDI ignition, so high voltage spikes from the charging system can't reach the CDI through the stock wiring harness.
@linksg lets start over from the beginning. The service manual probably messed you up cause the wrong information is published in there for the handlebar kill switch tests. So plug that diode back in that you untaped, plug everything else back in and start with checking the ignition switch and kill switch using the corrected service manual pages I attached above. Then check to make sure the neutral light comes on when its in neutral and goes out when you shift out. Report back here with your findings and we'll go on to the next step.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
Ah, I see. The wires from that picture submitted don't match my ignitions switch's wires at all, only one matches and that's the black one. I just received all my new parts, should I just install all the old parts and try stuff?

The neutral light and reverse light work, and the engine won't crank unless in neutral. So that's good stuff, and I also check the connectors for them both awhile ago.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
The ignition switch should have a three-connector plug, plus a single bullet connector plug for a total of four wires. The three-wire plug should have a Black/White wire, a Red wire and a Blue wire. The bullet connector should have a Green wire. If your switch harness has different colored wires and/or does not have two plugs totaling four wires as explained then it is not an OEM ignition switch.

Let us know what ya got before continuing.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
No, don't install any new parts yet. Need to take this step by step in case your ignition switch is a china garbage knockoff. If it is china you'll fry stuff!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
I'm dumb, I was looking at the other connector next to it which is 4 pin lol!! That's the one that has a bar code, it goes to the indicator lights, so they might have replaced it in the past, they work fine as of now. I tested the ignition switch according to the diagram you sent me, and it is up to spec, works like it shows on the diagram. I also tested the handlebar switches, and they also work as they should. What's the next step?

Should I test the new headlights? I'm thinking I should wait, as they might short again and I don't want to burn out 48 dollar light bulbs lol.

Also, attached below are pictures of my wire harness, is it normal for the different color tape? They look like they are covering bullet connectors.
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
Good news on those switches being OK. Hold up on replacing your headlight bulbs until you get the bike running and measure the charging voltage, just in case...

The factory used blue tape over unused (optional) connectors, so those are probably original.

Lets check the ignition coil and CDI circuit next? OEM Honda coil only though.... if yours is anything else say so.

Unplug the two CDI harness connectors and plug in the two ignition coil connectors. Use the lowest ohms range setting on your meter and measure resistance between the Black/Yellow wire in the CDI 4-wire plug... and frame ground. Then repeat between B/Y and ground using the motor for your ground. Report back with results.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
Glad ya liked doing that one. :)

Next, check the resistance between the end of the spark plug cable (inside the boot where the cable snaps onto the spark plug) and motor ground. Report that result.

Then check resistance between the Black/Red wire in the two-wire CDI connector to the Green/White wire in the 4-wire CDI connector. Measure again between the Black/Red wire in the two-wire CDI connector to motor ground. The 3-wire stator connector must be plugged in for these measurements. Report back with those two results.

Then check resistance between the Blue/Yellow wire in the 4-wire CDI connector and the Green/White wire in the 4-wire CDI connector. Measure again between the Blue/Yellow wire in the 4-wire CDI connector to frame ground. The 2-wire Stator plug connector must be plugged in for these measurements. Report back with those two results.

Thats gonna be all for me tonight. Time to hit the racks... Have fun with it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
Plug boot to motor ground : 8.02 ohms with dial set to 20k
Black/Red on 2 pin to Green/White on 4 pin : nothing on every setting from 20m to 200 on the dial, also no continuity
Black/Red on 2 pin to motor ground : nothing on every setting from 20m to 200 on the dial, also no continuity
Blue/Yellow on 4 pin to Green/White on 4 pin : 329 ohms with dial set to 2k
Blue/Yellow on 4 pin to frame ground : 329 ohms with dial set to 2k

Suspicious exciter coil huh. It's weird because I get AC voltage from it even just from pulling the recoil starter, at least I think. What wires would I test for voltage? I can't remember now, and I wanna double check lol

Thanks for all the help, this is seriously making my life way easier and I'm learning a lot from all of this, night!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
Ya, the exciter coil appears to be open but we have one more check to try on that. I am guessing that the resistance should have been somewhere between 50-400 ohms through the exciter coil depending on the maker. The manual instructs to use a peak voltage adapter for the tests but you don't have one... and your multimeter is probably not capable of reading a PVA either. So we are checking these coils the conventional old-school way.

Anyway, unplug the 3-wire stator connector. There are two Yellow wires and a Black/Red wire in that stator harness going into the motor case. Inspect that plug... especially where the Black/Red wire comes into the back of that plug from the motor. The wire should be in good condition and feel firm where it enters the plug and the connectors in the plug should be clean, no corrosion. They must appear capable of making tight connections with the connectors in the opposite plug.

Measure resistance between the Black/Red in that plug and motor ground. If you still get an open reading on your meter try wiggling/pushing on that harness where it goes through the grommet in the case while your meter leads are still connected. Work slowly... You'll be trying to detect whether that Black/Red wire has been broken off inside the harness wrap or not, right where the stator harness enters the motor case. Report back with your findings.

Your comment about having measured voltage previously from those wires probably were from the two Yellow wires. Those are Alternator charging... they produce AC voltage for the Regulator/rectifier to convert to DC for battery charging. Those are unrelated to any of the ignition system components.

If you want to measure them at this point go ahead... there should be resistance measured between those two Yellow wires. There should be no resistance (open, no continuity) measured between either of those Yellow wires and motor ground.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
@linksg here is a smokin' deal on a cheap china full-featured autoranging multimeter. It's specs list a 10 meg-ohms per DC volt measuring capability, which is required in multimeters for checking ATV ignition systems using Peak Voltage adapters. This one would be a huge improvement over the meter you are using now. It is only $9.69 shipped on orders over $25 and ships free to Prime members as well.

https://www.amazon.com/TOUGS-M202-Auto-Ranging-Multimeter-Electricians/dp/B072BH3T43

You can easily make your own PVA with a small 1uF, 250v capacitor, a diode, a momentary switch and some short wires & alligator cips. See Melatv's how to in this thread:

https://www.hondaatvforums.net/forums/repair-maintenance/120450-make-your-own-test-adapters.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
The yellow wires seem good. I tried all of what you mentioned and still no resistance... but get this, when I turn my meter to AC and 200 volts, I get voltage from the black/red wire and motor ground...? weird huh.

Also, I'll think about getting that meter, my meter is okay, but it's glitching out and is showing wrong decimal points lol
I'll have to find a place to buy those parts for the PVA adapter.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
...when I turn my meter to AC and 200 volts, I get voltage from the black/red wire and motor ground...?
That is what is suppose to happen. If you had a PVA you could measure it. Is it possible your meter is just not good enough to measure resistance reliably..? If thats the case that exciter coil might be working. Its a longshot though... that coil should measure between 50-400 ohms. Even junk china ought to handle that.

Here we are at a dead end though, with no way to test that exciter coil confidently.

You mentioned that you ordered some parts I think... what do you have ordered? Or on hand already?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
I guess I'll have to find a way to get a PVA. And yea, I know it's supposed to do that, that's what confuses me, becasue it sends voltage, but I get no reading for resistance. It could very well be my crappy meter, because it has broken and glitchy decimal points, and indicators on the display, as well as it takes about 10 seconds of holding the probes to wires to actually get a stable, accurate reading, ESPECIALLY for measuring resistance.

I ordered a lot of parts for different things. Foot brake seals, a bunch of parts for the steering column (bearings are screwed), body clips, and new ignition stuff.
A new CDI, a new coil, a new coil cap, a new diode, and new headlights. All here on hand, ready to be installed... but I wan't to make sure I don't blow up the new parts, because it wasn't cheap.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
How much time do you have (in days) before you gotta have it back together and running?

If the exciter coil is bad do you intend to buy a new one right away and install it yourself?

Reason I'm asking is, I can loan you a multimeter and a PVA to complete all of the tests... but it would probably take a couple days before I could ship them out to you. Interested?
 
21 - 40 of 105 Posts
About this Discussion
104 Replies
6 Participants
retro
Honda ATV Forum
We’re a forum community dedicated to Honda ATV owners & enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about upgrades and reliability for your Rancher, Foreman, Recon, FourTrax, Pioneer, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Top