[atvrider93]

Hello, everyone. I bought my ATV Rancher 400 FA model but with a problem. Its maximum speed is 30 mph. Where can the problem be? I tried with self-diagnosis, but there are no mistakes. I measured the angle sensor and the throttle position sensor and are ok. The oil is new and is level. I think there is some limitation.
Thank you all!

PS: I think the speed is high at the maximum speed. Clutch isn't sleepy.

Google Translate :grin

 

[WIRedRider]

Hello, everyone. I bought my ATV Rancher 400 FA model but with a problem. Its maximum speed is 30 mph. Where can the problem be? I tried with self-diagnosis, but there are no mistakes. I measured the angle sensor and the throttle position sensor and are ok. The oil is new and is level. I think there is some limitation.
Thank you all!

PS: I think the speed is high at the maximum speed. Clutch isn't sleepy.

Google Translate :grin

Almost sounds like it's not going into top gear. Someone with a 400FA will be able to chime in as to what you should be able to achieve, but my guess is it's not shifting into top gear or you have very undersized tires. Did you try shifting in manual mode and seeing what # gear you get to?

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[wheelsquad]

Hello, everyone. I bought my ATV Rancher 400 FA model but with a problem. Its maximum speed is 30 mph. Where can the problem be? I tried with self-diagnosis, but there are no mistakes. I measured the angle sensor and the throttle position sensor and are ok. The oil is new and is level. I think there is some limitation.
Thank you all!

PS: I think the speed is high at the maximum speed. Clutch isn't sleepy.

Google Translate :grin

Almost sounds like it's not going into top gear. Someone with a 400FA will be able to chime in as to what you should be able to achieve, but my guess is it's not shifting into top gear or you have very undersized tires. Did you try shifting in manual mode and seeing what # gear you get to?

Sent from my LG G6 using Tapatalk

Hello, everyone. I bought my ATV Rancher 400 FA model but with a problem. Its maximum speed is 30 mph. Where can the problem be? I tried with self-diagnosis, but there are no mistakes. I measured the angle sensor and the throttle position sensor and are ok. The oil is new and is level. I think there is some limitation.
Thank you all!

PS: I think the speed is high at the maximum speed. Clutch isn't sleepy.

Google Translate :grin

WIRR is on the right track with asking what it does in ESP (manual) mode. Can you get into top gear ratio and greater speeds that way?

Undersized tires will actually make the speedometer read HIGHER than you are actually moving (if gps measured), because the speedometer uses rotational speed.

 

[WIRedRider]

Undersized tires will actually make the speedometer read HIGHER than you are actually moving (if gps measured), because the speedometer uses rotational speed.

Quite right. Atvrider93, are you going by the bike's speedo or GPS? Maybe your problem is oversized tires and you're actually going much faster. (If you're using the bike's speedo.)

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[SamUK]

Where and who did you buy it off? Does it have a gear reduction fitted?

 

[mac102004]

Might be the centrifugal clutch slipping under load, 400AT has the hondamatic so other than that the problem might be more serious. Someone here knows more about these 400’s than I do....


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[atvrider93]

Thanks to everyone for quick response !! My tires are factory: front 24 x 8-12, rear 24 x 10-11. In manual mode it switches them all speeds. On manual mode it raises 26 mph, the ECA raises 30 mph. I think the speeds are close to the maximum. The difference in acceleration after third gear is not great as switching to fourth and fifth. Gps speed is 2-3 mph less.

PS:Centrufugal clutch is good in norms.

PS 2: where is does it stand the reduction gear?

 

[wheelsquad]

Might be the centrifugal clutch slipping under load, 400AT has the hondamatic so other than that the problem might be more serious. Someone here knows more about these 400’s than I do....


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Thanks to everyone for quick response !! My tires are factory: front 24 x 8-12, rear 24 x 10-11. In manual mode it switches them all speeds. On manual mode it raises 26 mph, the ECA raises 30 mph. I think the speeds are close to the maximum. The difference in acceleration after third gear is not great as switching to fourth and fifth. Gps speed is 2-3 mph less.

PS:Centrufugal clutch is good in norms.

PS 2: where is does it stand the reduction gear?

So moving on from the clutch....
What year is it? I ask because the 2004's all had an ECM recall. The ECM is the brains and control of the hondamatic.

It sounds to me like your shift motor is not functioning properly and it is probably not letting the swash plate go to the max angle for the highest gear ratios. I've never done it personally, but the service manual should have procedures for testing the shift motor.

Another thing you could try is jacking up the rear tires, and seeing what rear wheel speed you can get at the rev limiter of each "gear" in manual mode. Record for each. Then do the same for auto.

From the symptoms you're describing, I highly doubt the centrifugal clutch slipping under load . When mine was slipping even just a little bit, the thing wouldn't even be able to control moderate upshifting in auto mode and it behaved almost normally in manual mode. And once you got going you couldn't feel any slip and could easily hit top gear ratio and top speed.

 

[atvrider93]

@wheelsquad thank you! This is good answer!

ATV is 2004 (TRX400FA4). I inspect the Hondamatic and it in good condition. Angle sensor is ok (inspected).

Quote:

It sounds to me like your shift motor is not functioning properly and it is probably not letting the swash plate go to the max angle for the highest gear ratios. I've never done it personally, but the service manual should have procedures for testing the shift motor.

..........................................................

I think that is the problem with ECM. When I am accelerating I do not feel sleepy clutches. When rpm are increasing, the speed also increases.

This is clutch and Hondamatica assy.

 

[wheelsquad]

@wheelsquad thank you! This is good answer!

ATV is 2004 (TRX400FA4). I inspect the Hondamatic and it in good condition. Angle sensor is ok (inspected).

Quote:

It sounds to me like your shift motor is not functioning properly and it is probably not letting the swash plate go to the max angle for the highest gear ratios. I've never done it personally, but the service manual should have procedures for testing the shift motor.

..........................................................

I think that is the problem with ECM. When I am accelerating I do not feel sleepy clutches. When rpm are increasing, the speed also increases.

This is clutch and Hondamatica assy.

Images required a password. Can you just attach them directly here?

 

[wheelsquad]

2 additional things: can you record a video of the display cluster and post to youtube on what it does while in manual and auto modes? I'd really like to see if the top speed changes from "gear" 3, 4, & 5 while in manual mode.

Also, go to the service manual here for the 400FA: http://www.hondaatvforums.net/forum...ads.html#/forumsite/21330/topics/50817?page=1 and go to the steps on pg 24-20 (bottom half) through 24-25.

I would not point to the ECM being a problem until you have verified through those steps that your control motor is not faulty. If angle sensor is good but control motor is not moving the swash plate through it's full range, this is the area to focus on until you verify it is good.

 

[atvrider93]

I did things with password and now you can see.

The ATV is disassembled now. I inspect and clean engine inside. There were remnants inside of old oil... I inspected all lubrication system, clutch and oil pump. All is good. I will assembly the engine, because problem is not inside (maybe).

 

[wheelsquad]

Ok, I see them now. And I can see now why you're saying clutch is good, looks like you've inspected it.

So I would still do all those shift motor diagnostics if I were you. Tearing the whole motor apart, while I commend you for it, is not a guarantee to diagnose these heavily computer/electrical/control motor based automatics. You need a methodical and patient approach.

 

[riccnick]

I'd start with a carb clean and adjustment, new spark plug, air filter, and an oil change, if all of those haven't' been recently taken care of. These motors are not very powerful to begin with, so any small item that can be fixed will help. The recall on the Hondamatic's in the TRX400AT bike was for incorrect swash plate angle at LOW speeds, under 8 mph if I remember correctly, so I doubt it has anything to do with that. Other things that can affect your top speed include:

-tire pressure
-alignment
-brake drag
-wheel bearing / cv axle drag
-your weight
-any other modifications to the machine that affect its aerodynamics or weight

Where are you located and where did you buy the machine from? Your pictures are blocked on my work computer because it says the link leads to another country. It's possible machines from countries other than the United States have electronic limiters on them.

I used to own a 2004 Yellow 400AT and it was a great machine, I had the recall done and it actually CAUSED the problem they said it fixed, so I had to have them do it again. After that it was sold unfortunately. However, even with the transmission acting up, ALL gears worked in ESP and only in Auto mode did it shift up too early and bog down, which is what the recall fixed (the second time for me). I don't remember what the top speed of it was, but I know it was quicker than my 01 TRX350FE which I have seen 50mph on. It takes a LONG time to get there though, and if there is any grade at all, it won't go that fast. I'd imagine the 400AT is right around there on a completely level surface with an average weight rider on it and in good running condition.

 

[ATC4ever]

You have to do a speed learn & I think its in 4x4 when you do it, with the machine off the ground. Pretty sure i read that in the manual a few years back.

 

[SamUK]

As wheelsquad said, A video would be very helpful indeed.

 

[riccnick]

You have to do a speed learn & I think its in 4x4 when you do it, with the machine off the ground. Pretty sure i read that in the manual a few years back.

I've never heard of that, the only thing in the manual to do after replacing any component related to the powertrain is the "initial setting procedure". I've posted it here before I believe, but not sure where at the moment. I'll see if I can dig it up. The 4wd system doesn't have any procedure to perform after replacing any of its components. There is only diagnostic instructions in the service manual.

To the OP, another thing that I thought of, check to make sure your throttle and choke cables are operating properly. Make sure the throttle cable isn't stretched and actually opens the throttle plate fully when the thumb throttle is pressed wide open. There are adjustments on each end of the cable so make sure to check both for smooth and full operation.

 

[wheelsquad]

You have to do a speed learn & I think its in 4x4 when you do it, with the machine off the ground. Pretty sure i read that in the manual a few years back.

I've never heard of that, the only thing in the manual to do after replacing any component related to the powertrain is the "initial setting procedure". I've posted it here before I believe, but not sure where at the moment. I'll see if I can dig it up. The 4wd system doesn't have any procedure to perform after replacing any of its components. There is only diagnostic instructions in the service manual.

To the OP, another thing that I thought of, check to make sure your throttle and choke cables are operating properly. Make sure the throttle cable isn't stretched and actually opens the throttle plate fully when the thumb throttle is pressed wide open. There are adjustments on each end of the cable so make sure to check both for smooth and full operation.

You have to do a speed learn & I think its in 4x4 when you do it, with the machine off the ground. Pretty sure i read that in the manual a few years back.

I'd start with a carb clean and adjustment, new spark plug, air filter, and an oil change, if all of those haven't' been recently taken care of. These motors are not very powerful to begin with, so any small item that can be fixed will help. The recall on the Hondamatic's in the TRX400AT bike was for incorrect swash plate angle at LOW speeds, under 8 mph if I remember correctly, so I doubt it has anything to do with that. Other things that can affect your top speed include:

-tire pressure
-alignment
-brake drag
-wheel bearing / cv axle drag
-your weight
-any other modifications to the machine that affect its aerodynamics or weight

Where are you located and where did you buy the machine from? Your pictures are blocked on my work computer because it says the link leads to another country. It's possible machines from countries other than the United States have electronic limiters on them.

I used to own a 2004 Yellow 400AT and it was a great machine, I had the recall done and it actually CAUSED the problem they said it fixed, so I had to have them do it again. After that it was sold unfortunately. However, even with the transmission acting up, ALL gears worked in ESP and only in Auto mode did it shift up too early and bog down, which is what the recall fixed (the second time for me). I don't remember what the top speed of it was, but I know it was quicker than my 01 TRX350FE which I have seen 50mph on. It takes a LONG time to get there though, and if there is any grade at all, it won't go that fast. I'd imagine the 400AT is right around there on a completely level surface with an average weight rider on it and in good running condition.

X2, good basic list of suggestions riccnick had too

I think you guys are using different words for to describe the same thing. Pretty sure the service manual calls it the initialization but I could see how someone would call it a "speed learn". Whatever you call it the service manual describes it and when you have to do it.

Like after a complete disassembly like the OP currently has done...

and riccnick, you nailed it too, the 2004 ECM recall was for upshifting way too early in certain situations. and it doesn't surprise me that after your first ECM replacement you still had the same issues. because during the original initialization instructions, they had a "stall test" as part of it. well depending on how severe the guy did the stall test, they could glaze the clutch and then you had a clutch that even with the tiniest amount of slippage, would cause the same early upshifting issue, even with the new ECM. this is exaclty what happened to mine. melsman, no longer active here, had some good write-ups on this.

and yep, my 400AT on flat terrain surprisingly revs out good and hit 50mph speedometer speed with the stock tires. straight line drag race it actually used to beat my Grizzly 450 (before I clutched it)

 

[ATC4ever]

Yea i dont think it says the exact phrase 'speed learn' lol... old habit from working on electric forklifts. There was something in there about having the machine off the ground & running it in top gear at a certain throttle position & RPM for the ECU to learn the speed...something like that. The 2 i had here at the time were an 05 & 06, so maybe the 04 is a diff/ cat ECU wise.

 

[atvrider93]

Hello, everyone! A very good subject is being received, thank you!

To recall the problem again:

The engine works well and accelerates to maximum rpm smoothly and without interruption.
The butterfly valve opens normally, as it should be
Tires are factory-sized, pumped evenly.
There is no brake to hold, no bearing to hold.
My weight is 70 kilograms, I think it's not a problem

Only the maximum speed is small.

The machine was purchased from America. If it is used on a farm, can it be limited?

I'm assemble the engine now and putting it on the frame. After all I'm going to do ECU initialize. I hope there is the problem....

Thank everyone and I am open to suggestions )