Power
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Joined
·
7,087 Posts
Pipe, filter and tuner will gain some power back. Gear reduction is more cost effective though. All these new guys crap all over the old school pipe/filter/tuner combo but back in the old days before gear reductions it was all we had and we made out just fine.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Joined
·
114 Posts
Sounds about right from what i've seen. People have been bashing the old ricer tune up kit so much they say it does nothing.
Joined
·
1,418 Posts
Gear reduction is a great way to go and he is some insight to what it would take,
Joined
·
8,309 Posts
Mac I think the folks that you say frown on these things, don't frown on them due to they don;t do ANYTHING< its just the costs that are there to have them really isn;t worth the money to most of us, all comes down to your budget I guess??
but then again, if you have deeper pockets wouldn;t it just be wiser to buy an atv with more HP from the get go? which is more the point I think us folks make LOL
as smart spending is just that, its not hate from haters LOL just honest advice!
Joined
·
7,087 Posts
That's kind of what I was getting at in one of the other threads, these all seem to turn up at once. But back 10-15 even 20 years ago when you did a pipe/filter/rejet you weren't spending a ton of money. But with these newer machines like the OP's 420, the exhausts are only available as full systems not slip ons, and the rejet's are now tuners worth several hundred dollars. So while you can absolutely add power without doing a GR as I said in this thread as well as the other thread it's becoming more and more expensive to do so, and the GR option is much more cost effective. But, on the other hand, people have their own reasoning as to why they might want to avoid a GR.
If your stuck with Honda's buying something with more power may not be as simple as it sounds. With suspension, weight, gearing other drivetrain differences between all the models, perhaps the larger machines did not suit their needs as well as the Rancher did, or perhaps they didn't anticipate such a power loss with larger tires. I'm only speculating of course.
Don't forget, when it comes to power I'm the guy who buys the most powerful ATV on the planet then goes looking to hop it up and get even more out of it lol
Joined
·
8,309 Posts
Mac I hear you, a shame simple mods can be so costly as to yrs back
but a LOT of these treads about wanting MORE power to a honda atv, IMO all stem from many folks NOT researching things before buying and its NOT till they add the bigger tires they see others having and then realize there HONDA is low on power and are looking for help
and well, at this point there honestly isn't a EASY or cheap way to get more power out of a Honda atv, or NOT yet
the new 1000 there putting out MIGHT end up in a atv in the next 10 yrs or so MAYBE LOL
all a guy has to do is wait, if there a die hard Honda guy
a gear reduction is cheaper and does work for what it is, but will void a warranty, but, so does honestly adding over sized tires and snorkels
so for those that want to play in the mud on bigger tires, as they say, got to pay to play
or again, maybe ask questions BEFORE buying that atv and finding out the hard way, its not enough HP to make you happy!
not bashing, just saying! we all live and learn at times the hard way
First of all looks look at the factory 420 muffler. People take off the stock muffler and spend hundreds on a loud annoying aftermarket muffler saying it gives them more power because it flows better. On a 420 this is full on retarded. The factory muffler for the 420 is the exact same muffler they put on the 500's. If the factory muffler is capable of handling a 475CC motor, how much additional USABLE flow do you think you're gonna get putting one of these racing mufflers on a 420?
When I rebuilt the wife's 420 the original cylinder was trashed so I put a 500 top end on it, and a little research showed me the mufflers were the same between the Foreman and Rancher, so I knew there was no point in messing with the exhaust. I added a programmer due to the increase in CC's, and after spending the money I think that was a waste as well. Lot of people do the 500 top end without a programmer. I got a very slight increase in power doing adding the Foreman cylinder and a programmer, and that tiny bit of power I attribute to the extra 55 CC's, not to the programmer.
The difference was not enough to spend a dime on unless you're having to replace parts anyway like I did. A new Foreman cylinder and piston was the same price as a Rancher cylinder and piston, so I did it. My Rancher cylinder was cracked or the route to go would have been a bore and hone. I have never suggested to anyone that it is worth spending any money on as a "power upgrade" for the sake of power.
I put a SRA secondary in the same bike which made 10x's the difference as a new top end and a programmer.
These are low HP engines. On a Honda you get power to the wheels with gearing, not HP. It takes thousands of dollars to make these engines produce any substantial gains in power, and then you lose the reliability factor.
When I rebuilt the wife's 420 the original cylinder was trashed so I put a 500 top end on it, and a little research showed me the mufflers were the same between the Foreman and Rancher, so I knew there was no point in messing with the exhaust. I added a programmer due to the increase in CC's, and after spending the money I think that was a waste as well. Lot of people do the 500 top end without a programmer. I got a very slight increase in power doing adding the Foreman cylinder and a programmer, and that tiny bit of power I attribute to the extra 55 CC's, not to the programmer.
The difference was not enough to spend a dime on unless you're having to replace parts anyway like I did. A new Foreman cylinder and piston was the same price as a Rancher cylinder and piston, so I did it. My Rancher cylinder was cracked or the route to go would have been a bore and hone. I have never suggested to anyone that it is worth spending any money on as a "power upgrade" for the sake of power.
I put a SRA secondary in the same bike which made 10x's the difference as a new top end and a programmer.
These are low HP engines. On a Honda you get power to the wheels with gearing, not HP. It takes thousands of dollars to make these engines produce any substantial gains in power, and then you lose the reliability factor.
Joined
·
7,087 Posts
The muffler on the 500 isn't exactly high flow, they are restrictive regardless of what motor they are attached to. Every MFG does the same thing and oddly enough every machine still benefits from aftermarket exhausts. Can-am for example uses the same muffler on their 500 as they do their 1000, double the displacement, same muffler. Both gain HP from an aftermarket pipe.
If you look at an aftermarket exhaust there is very little restriction they are designed to produce more HP. It may only be 2-3hp, but the fact that they do produce more HP is undeniable. Whether they are spending 50 bucks for 500 bucks to do it is irrelevant, it's up to whoever is doing it to decide what there budget is and if it's worth it to them. I can booger weld a $30 tractor muffler onto the stock head pipe and achieve more or less the same result as adding a $500 aftermarket exhaust but it will look like crap and probably rot out in no time vs. the aftermarket stainless steel units.
I'd LOVE to see what their AFR numbers are like running a 55cc big bore and no tuner, must really be something. Your not going to get a boatload of extra power with the Foreman top end. It's a 55cc upgrade but you are still running stock compression and a stock cam. The 420 makes 26.6hp and the 500 28.7hp, the 500 also uses a larger TB BTW. So your looking at what, 8% more power. Nothing to write home about. Bump that compression up to about 12:1 and add a good aftermarket cam and lets here what kind of power you've got then. High Lifter used to offer a 455cc big bore for the 420's that made as much or more power than the 500 kits, less displacement but same or more power because it had some decent compression with it.
99% of the guys doing 500 top ends are doing it because they trashed their stock top ends. I don't think anyone is selling it as a performance upgrade, if they are they shouldn't be.
Yes gear reductions will make a bigger difference. If that's what your looking for. What about for the guy who's on stock size tires looking for more acceleration or someone not looking to loose top end speed. GR's are a great thing, but they aren't perfect for everyone.
I'm not sure what you would consider a substantial gain. Pipe/Tuner/Filter is probably going to add 10% more power pretty easily. That's not too bad really. It's up to whoever is thinking about doing it to decide if it's worth it or not. To me looking at the Honda parts it seems like a bargain. When I did the renegade, the exhaust was about $900, headers $600, the tuner was $1200, ECM reflash $275, and cams were around $650. At the crank I'd be lucky if it added 15hp and it was damn well worth it. $3600+ for 15% more power. vs. the Honda's where you can get 10% for what? $1000 or less?
If you look at an aftermarket exhaust there is very little restriction they are designed to produce more HP. It may only be 2-3hp, but the fact that they do produce more HP is undeniable. Whether they are spending 50 bucks for 500 bucks to do it is irrelevant, it's up to whoever is doing it to decide what there budget is and if it's worth it to them. I can booger weld a $30 tractor muffler onto the stock head pipe and achieve more or less the same result as adding a $500 aftermarket exhaust but it will look like crap and probably rot out in no time vs. the aftermarket stainless steel units.
I'd LOVE to see what their AFR numbers are like running a 55cc big bore and no tuner, must really be something. Your not going to get a boatload of extra power with the Foreman top end. It's a 55cc upgrade but you are still running stock compression and a stock cam. The 420 makes 26.6hp and the 500 28.7hp, the 500 also uses a larger TB BTW. So your looking at what, 8% more power. Nothing to write home about. Bump that compression up to about 12:1 and add a good aftermarket cam and lets here what kind of power you've got then. High Lifter used to offer a 455cc big bore for the 420's that made as much or more power than the 500 kits, less displacement but same or more power because it had some decent compression with it.
99% of the guys doing 500 top ends are doing it because they trashed their stock top ends. I don't think anyone is selling it as a performance upgrade, if they are they shouldn't be.
Yes gear reductions will make a bigger difference. If that's what your looking for. What about for the guy who's on stock size tires looking for more acceleration or someone not looking to loose top end speed. GR's are a great thing, but they aren't perfect for everyone.
I'm not sure what you would consider a substantial gain. Pipe/Tuner/Filter is probably going to add 10% more power pretty easily. That's not too bad really. It's up to whoever is thinking about doing it to decide if it's worth it or not. To me looking at the Honda parts it seems like a bargain. When I did the renegade, the exhaust was about $900, headers $600, the tuner was $1200, ECM reflash $275, and cams were around $650. At the crank I'd be lucky if it added 15hp and it was damn well worth it. $3600+ for 15% more power. vs. the Honda's where you can get 10% for what? $1000 or less?
When looking at a 300 build, I've considered doing a 317 kit with a cam, but honestly given the cost vs the benefit, is it worth it?
I have an 06 Foreman and two 09 Foremans. Same bikes. All three are FM's.
I found an 06 for my buddy who was looking. Exact same bike. It had an HMF, jet kit, UNI on it. Zero difference in power between his bike and my bikes. The noise irritated the rest of our riding group, so I let him ride my 06 and he agreed there was no perceivable difference in power. He took the HMF and jet off and sold it, put a stock muffler and jet on, and still says he can't tell any difference.
If someone's going through and really building a motor, I get it. Big bore, cam, high compression piston. You're changing the specs on the motor doing all of that. Still not cost effective but I get the desire to do it, just because.
There's no point in really building a motor without making it able to breath, but just slapping a muffler on a bike and thinking it's faster because it's louder is no different than slapping a fart can on a civic and thinking you have a race car.
If you want to get technical you might get a .21 HP gain from that fart can, but the increase in obnoxiousness far outweighs the imperceivable gain in HP you got, and your wallet is a lot lighter.
Obviously I don't like noisy exhausts. The guys running HMF's around here remind me of this South Park episode (which has iffy language so don't watch if you're one of the easily offended types)
I'm an all-or-nothing guy too. I either leave motors bone stock or throw everything at them that I can. Which means nothing on the motor is a stock part when I get done building. Not even a single bolt...! The block, crank and everything that attaches to them are either aftermarket or custom. I don't like gasoline either, methanol is a far superior fuel in every way.
Yes, custom racing motors are very loud and very expensive, but its the only way you'll ever find a cost-effective increase in torque output, while retaining reliability for your investment. Loud motors belong on a race track competing with other loud motors. I hate them all when they are running around my house. They're just obnoxious turds.
Yes, custom racing motors are very loud and very expensive, but its the only way you'll ever find a cost-effective increase in torque output, while retaining reliability for your investment. Loud motors belong on a race track competing with other loud motors. I hate them all when they are running around my house. They're just obnoxious turds.
Joined
·
1 Posts
Radio hookup
I have a 2018 Honda rancher 420 and just purchased the sub harness but not sure how to wire up one side has a green wire and white wire with black line and other side has white wire with black line which is positive and with ground want to wire my boss radio to harness?
I have a 2018 Honda rancher 420 and just purchased the sub harness but not sure how to wire up one side has a green wire and white wire with black line and other side has white wire with black line which is positive and with ground want to wire my boss radio to harness?
Joined
·
12,712 Posts
...a young boy was sitting on Santa Claus 's lap and asked for a pink unicorn , Santa laughed and said there is no such thing as a unicorn , what else do you want , the boy said a Honda with power , Santa said , what color unicorn did you say you want ......
Way off topic for this thread. Start a new thread, and someone will be along shortly to help you.
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
