[jimgard]

Hello fellow enthusiasts,

New to the forum as well as new ATV owner. I am anticipating great feedback and enjoyable conversation on the forum and very much appreciate any insight anyone might have into this, my very first glitch. Sadly the glitch arrived on my second ride with the "New to me" machine.

She is an 07 Rancher ES Model #:TRX420FE7. Started fine when I bought it from a buddy of mine, (of course), as well as fine the first time I took her out but the second time, not even two weeks later, I got the old solenoid click-click sound from under the seat and it made no attempt at turning over. I tested all the circuits and fuses with an Ohm meter and found a dead short to ground on the starter side of the solenoid. Then obviously the same short showed when tested at the starter wiring stud/terminal. I removed the starter and opened it up and found that 3-4 of the 8 magnets that line the inside of the housing were completely smashed and little bits of magnet were everywhere (presumably what caused the short to ground).

The new starter is on the way but my concern is: was it a wiring issue or other such occurrence that my have caused the starter to become smashed inside and will it happen to the new starter as soon as it is installed. Has anyone ever seen such a thing with a starter and possibly know of a cause for this type of behavior?

As a side note to help understand and diagnose the possible causes better, upon lifting the back cover after the no-start, I noticed that a mouse has gotten into the wiring under the seat and chewed the insulation off of several wires of the main harness (right where they enter a large main connection plug directly under the plug that feeds out back to the tail light) under the seat. Several wires were frayed and possibly touching each other a little but non were broken through. I do not know if this condition existed before I picked it up from my buddy but I had it in a shipping container that is sealed very tightly so I imagine it predated this starter explosion. We didn't really do a thorough once-over hand off right when I grabbed it. I was planning to give it a look over once I got a few minutes and then this happened.

Again I would really appreciate any insight anyone might have into this little gem of a pickle and I look forward to meeting you all as the posts progress. I've included 2 photos of the busted magnets for reference.

Thanks so much and I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays,

James

 

[Goober]

Welcome James
Well I’m not that familiar with the ES models but I think can get you started.
The starter may have lost one magnet which then started a domino with the rest. Most likely an internal failure.
Now mice-chewed wires is common and with a relatively new machine, consider buying a new harness from Rocky Mtn for a bit over $200. You will have to remove a bunch of stuff to swap out the harness. This will get your eyes in the other wires

The main thing is that you don’t want to short out the expensive control modules—unless you’re good at wire repair I’d replace the chewed harnesses

 

[Jeepwm69]

Go to Powersportsnation.com and see if they have a good used harness. They guarantee their parts for 30 days and on some items are much cheaper than buying new.

 

[XJCountry]

Magnet detonation could occur in several flavors, but either a hard landing broke a piece off and cratered the rest or the 'glue they use to secure them came loose. Possibly due to extended high temps inside a shipping container???

+1 on powersportsnation I have many used parts from them and they are very reasonable.

 

[LedFTed]

Welcome James
Well I’m not that familiar with the ES models but I think can get you started.
The starter may have lost one magnet which then started a domino with the rest. Most likely an internal failure.
Now mice-chewed wires is common and with a relatively new machine, consider buying a new harness from Rocky Mtn for a bit over $200. You will have to remove a bunch of stuff to swap out the harness. This will get your eyes in the other wires

The main thing is that you don’t want to short out the expensive control modules–unless you’re good at wire repair I’d replace the chewed harnesses

Hey Goober. that picture shows up small, for me. your not the only one that uses the same format.
i should have said something sooner. i will blame it on brain damage, an will hope ya'll forgive me.
No need to explain brain damage here. too many know it. :smile

 

[jimgard]

Hey Fellas,

Awesome, Thanks for the quick replies. I went over to powersportsnation.com and that place is the ticket for sure. Good call. The only harness I found that was close is for an 08 Rancher TRX420FE and my machine is an 07 TRX420FE. I wonder if they used the same harness? I guess I could search the part number and see if it is the same as they have listed the item being sold as part number: 32100-HP5-A10. Just wondered if anyone knows of a quick cross reference site for part/year compatibility?

Thanks again for all the great info and I can tell this is going to be a place and site that I will enjoy spending some time in!!

Honda Rancher 420 FE 08 Wiring Harness Chassis 18756

 

[LedFTed]

i've not seen the magnets as this is in the photos. i have not had experience with that model. i have not see a magnet come loose, from the housing, except once. my little trolling motor, had a bad gasket. water got in it, an the glue quit working.
now i had a brush problem, with the starter, 00trx450. i bought a new brush, waited to long to replace it, brush got to the metal, an metal, caused problems with the starter.
two maybe only one week earlier, i could have replaced the brush. now i got an extra starter brush. i think metal got in it, unless it was exposed to water, without a good gasket. mice damage wires. so do rats. its like a hobby to them..
well, i give it my best shot. cant say its true.

 

[misterclean59]

I think the cheapest and best way is to repair the chewed wires. Just buy a cheap soldering tool, some thin diameter solder and some heat shrink. The first one will take you several minutes. The next one one will be quicker etc. Me and a friend bought out 2014 TRX 420's at the same time. They were in barn for abut four months when both of them wouldn't start one day. A rat had chewed almost the exact same wires on both machines! I think seven on one and nine on the other. I bought some wire and heat shrink. In about an hour and a half we had both up and running.........that was four years ago.

 

[XJCountry]

I think that the mice and rats chew next to the battery because that is where the oxides form...maybe those taste sweet? IDK never tried to taste them myself. I have heard that lead oxide has a sweet taste which is why kids like to eat paint chips. If your terminals are lead then I could see this happening.

 

[Jeepwm69]

Hey Fellas,

Awesome, Thanks for the quick replies. I went over to powersportsnation.com and that place is the ticket for sure. Good call. The only harness I found that was close is for an 08 Rancher TRX420FE and my machine is an 07 TRX420FE. I wonder if they used the same harness? I guess I could search the part number and see if it is the same as they have listed the item being sold as part number: 32100-HP5-A10. Just wondered if anyone knows of a quick cross reference site for part/year compatibility?

Thanks again for all the great info and I can tell this is going to be a place and site that I will enjoy spending some time in!!

Honda Rancher 420 FE 08 Wiring Harness Chassis 18756

07 and 08 show different part numbers, but that doesn't necessarily mean they won't work. The ECU is the same for both, as is the bank angle sensor, the rectifier. Those are the three main components that plug into the wiring harness.

Click on the part number on the right and scroll down and it will show you all the Honda models that that particular part number fits.

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/2007/trx420fe-a-fourtrax-rancher-4x4-es/wire-harness

All that said, I wouldn't pay $124 for a used harness when you can get a new one for $200ish.

 

[LedFTed]

I think that the mice and rats chew next to the battery because that is where the oxides form...maybe those taste sweet? IDK never tried to taste them myself. I have heard that lead oxide has a sweet taste which is why kids like to eat paint chips. If your terminals are lead then I could see this happening.

i did hvac, an also some plumbing, at a place i worked. i sometimes had to help the plumbers catch on some jobs. hand sanding[ cleaning up the joints with fine sandpaper or similar, with your fingers, so the soilder sticks to copper fittings], on both jobs, the dust would be absorbed through the skin, and would make cigarettes taste sweeter. not to mention food and such. copper in a necessary mineral.
ya might be just on to something.

 

[Mike Lovell]

Hi, I didn't pick up anywhere where you said your wiring had been chewed up? Don't go replacing your wire loom if the only problem is the munched magnets in the starter motor... that's all it is-the magnets come loose and disintegrate,like so much of the newer stuff these days- they don't last quite the same! Replace the starter motor and you should be fine. Cheers from New Zealand.

 

[Z7What]

Being that the starter is a mechanical device i dont think the wiring issue caused the issue with the starter. I had this very thing happen on my riding lawn mower. Not 100% sure what caused the issue but i believe the issue with my starter was due to it getting hot doing extended crank times. The extended crank times is due to a known issue with Kholer engines. There is a compression release spring on the cam shaft that breaks. When this spring breaks it makes turning the engine over to start much harder because the starter is having to fight against the compression in the cylinder, because its not being released due to the spring being broke. I replaced the stock starter with a cheap on from Amazon, increased the size of the power wire from the battery to the solenoid and from the solenoid to the starter as well as added extra grounds throughout the mower. Its been a year since doing this and its been working perfectly.

Now onto the eatten wires. This issue has been a issue since the beginning of time. From what i have read, the insulation or maybe its the lubication used on the wire when its being made is soy based. The mice/rats smell this and thats why they eat the wires. Recently i came across a company called Mouse Blocker, they make an electrical tape thats "encapsulated Capsaicin from Hot Chile Peppers" this is supposed to stop mice/rats from eating the wires.

https://mouseblocker.com/product/anti-rodent-repair-tape/

Note: I have not used this tape, just something I’ve come across.

Wayne

 

[LedFTed]

if you can find out why the glue used to hold magnets in casings breaks down, then you will have your solution[i wont mention china, for obvious reason]...did i say shoddy workmanship? : |

 

[jimgard]

Resolved

Hey guys,

Thanks again for all the input and advice on this one. I realized I never followed up after I got her back up and running and wanted to in case anyone came back through with the same issue and wanted to use my solved problem to fix their ride in the future.

So it turns out the disintegrated starter was just that, no other wiring or electrical issues as far as I have seen. So I guess the answer to my earlier "IS THIS JUST GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN WITH THE NEW STARTER" question has been answered. There doesn't seem to be any further issues at all and have put several miles on her since without the first hiccup with the starter itself. Must've been a hard bump before I got her that just finally reared it's ugly head.

There was one other issue with starting that turned out to be unrelated to the starter motor however. The kill switch, right below the down shift turns out to be finicky and has to be absolutely centered anymore to start. It doesn't always center any more and if it is just a hair off I get nothing. My 10 year old actually discovered the problem. He was begging for a ride and I tried a dozen times, threw my hat across the yard and gave up for the day. He stayed after it and finally discovered the issue. Rockstar that one!!

I know this should probably go on a new thread for locating purposes for the next guy but does anyone know if that little red kill switch can be replaced or if you have to get a whole new shifter and light control cluster? Just figured someone might have hit this wall before and figured out a cheap fix. The cheapest fix for us for now has been just turning it off with the key while in neutral and never touching that switch, ha ha. You do what you have to do sometimes I guess, right?

Thoughts?

Thanks again for the assistance and happy riding to all,

James

 

[Jeepwm69]

I don't ever use the kill switch. I always turn the key off.

 

[XJCountry]

You could take it apart and fiddle with it. I turn the key off as well. I am a little paranoid about forgetting and draining the battery.

 

[Goober]

I don’t use the kill switch—possible it could have been damaged or just plain worn. So it depends on how fiddley it is

it’s an 07 (and an ES), I would consider saving my coinage and replace it in near future, while switches are available. Not ASAP but not eventually either. These switches are more expensive than FMs.

 

[LedFTed]

mine is froze shut. before that, i would hit it sometimes without trying, i couldnt figure out the problem, till i got laughed at. :grin
when you need the kill swich, you will be probable on the ground, before you even think about it.:smile