Honda ATV Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Kids have been bugging me to ride wheelers, so yesterday afternoon we took a quick spin to look at the floodwaters.

I got the wife's 420 out just to run it. It hasn't been ridden but once in the last year or so, so it was due some exercise.

First thing I noticed is the front brakes are almost non-existent. I have extra calipers and new OEM pads in the shop as they didn't work great the last time I rode it, so I went ahead and got parts. They might just need to be bled, but I'm going to go ahead and replace the pads and look at the calipers before I bleed them. I put cheap aftermarket pads on when I did the rebuild and it never has stopped like it should with the front brakes only.

Second thing I noticed was a lone rooster-tail when I got in some slick spots, as well as a pull to one side under power. Uh oh. I pulled into a hole and gassed on it and 2wd. Right rear wheels spins like mad. Left rear wheel doesn't do anything.

Crap. Looks like a new ring gear and probably a left rear axle are will have to be picked up. I've read about the IRS rear ends stripping the ring gear splines, and lo and behold looks like it's happened on this one.

Any way to keep this from happening again? I'm thinking either moly grease the heck out of the splines or maybe even copper antiseize to keep water out from between the ring gear and axle splines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Well we had a 2 inch rain saturday night, so that didn't help. The pumping station a few miles out of town is pumping non-stop as well, which is dumping water from the protected side and adding to the backwater from the Mississippi River.

I didn't think that it could be a stripped out hub on the left rear wheel instead of half the ring gear splines. I'll have to tear into it and see what I find.

Interestingly enough, the 15-up 420AT rear diffs look the same at a cursory glace, but the newer ones have bigger bearings in them, so I'm wondering IF i have to get a ring gear if I could swap in a whole rear diff out of a newer model.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Finally tore into this Saturday afternoon. Jacked up the right rear wheel (the one that still pulled) and had a kid sit on the bike and give it gas. Right wheel/CV (in the air) spun, left (on the ground) did not at all.

Crap, that means bad ring gear.

Pulled it out of the way, tore into it.

Both rear CV's were rusted in place. Finally got them out, and both have sharktoothed splines on them where they went into the diff. Double crap.

Left hub/bearing were ok. Right is stuck on the end of the CV and the bearing had all kinds of play.

PSN had a sale going this weekend, so I ordered a couple of used CV, and a used right rear knuckle. Used hubs aren't going much cheaper than new, so if I get the right hub off the axle and it's bad I'll just order a new hub when I order a new ring gear and seals.

Interestingly enough, diff fluid is clean and there doesn't seem to be any play in the bearings. The CV cups on the IRS rear diff aren't open to the diff on the inside, so I think once I put a new ring gear and seals in (with LOTS of grease on the splines this time) that should be all I have to do.

Still going to run me about $250-300 in parts to get it going again. Going to have to wait till pay day to get the ring gear and hub (if needed) ordered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Took the rear diff apart this morning.

Oil was clean and not contaminated by oil. Bearings are tight. Looks like I'll get away with just replacing the ring gear.

I also finally got the right rear cv out of the hub. Had to put it in my press and it made some awful noises coming out, but the hub splines are still square so that saves me $40.

I ordered a used right rear knuckle for the right size as the bearing was sloppy and I could order a whole used knuckle with good bearing as cheap as I could order a new bearing.

That said, I was going to grease these rear knuckle bearings before putting things back together, and they're sealed bearings. Like really sealed....with a metal seal.

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/2009/trx420fa-2a-fourtrax-rancher-at/rear-knuckle-rear-driveshaft

There's a slit in the middle of the bearing, but neither of my greasers from Machined Integrations fit, so is there any other way to grease these things, or do I just bite the bullet and buy a greaser for them specifically for these two rear bearings?
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
The slit in that bearing shield might be the joint where it was assembled. I have four bearings sealed up tight with metal shields like that one on an old Arctic Cat sled. They're expensive and can't be serviced... so I drilled tiny holes in the shields on each side of the bearings and shoot grease through them while rotating them by hand until clean grease is squirting out the opposite side holes. Then put JB-weld over the holes that I drilled to reseal them. They're 23 years old bearings now, but still as good as they were when new. And they're easy to grease during routine maintenance teardowns.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
The slit in that bearing shield might be the joint where it was assembled. I have four bearings sealed up tight with metal shields like that one on an old Arctic Cat sled. They're expensive and can't be serviced... so I drilled tiny holes in the shields on each side of the bearings and shoot grease through them while rotating them by hand until clean grease is squirting out the opposite side holes. Then put JB-weld over the holes that I drilled to reseal them. They're 23 years old bearings now, but still as good as they were when new. And they're easy to grease during routine maintenance teardowns.
The slit I'm referring to is in the middle of the inner race, so the greaser from Machined Integrations would put grease in there, although as you said, I might have to drill a couple of holes in the shield to allow the new grease to push old grease out.

I've emailed Machined Integrations about a bearing greaser. They made a set for the 420AT, one for the front, and one for the back. I already have a front so I asked if I could buy the back separately.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Hey @retro, looking at this bearing again, is the slit that is marked in this pic a gap that would allow the old grease to be pushed out if I get one of those bearing greasers?

It looks like there's a gap there, but I can't tell for sure. Was looking at drilling a couple of holes in the shield, but if there's a little gap there that would allow the old grease to push out (and to let air out when new grease is being pushed in) then I won't need to drill holes in the shield.
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
Those are double-row ball bearings (similar to front knuckle wheel bearings) aren't they? The outer races hold still while the inner races rotate?

I'm trying to figure out how those ID greasers work without a vent in the bearing shields... and if those bearings are venting somewhere you wouldn't need to buy that special greaser... doesn't make sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Those are double-row ball bearings (similar to front knuckle wheel bearings) aren't they? The outer races hold still while the inner races rotate?
Correct


I'm trying to figure out how those ID greasers work without a vent in the bearing shields... and if those bearings are venting somewhere you wouldn't need to buy that special greaser... doesn't make sense.
They might not be vented. I haven't heard back from machined integrations about availablility of just the rear greaser either.

They do make greasing much easier, as you can simply undo the bottom ball joint, knock the knuckle loose, and pivot it up enough to pull the CV out, and then grease the bearing with the knuckle still attached to the upper a-arm.

Those dang bearings are $35 each from Honda, so if the tool is $29, it makes keeping them greased much easier and is cheaper than a single replacment bearing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Well I got my new bearing greaser in from Machined Integrations.

Shot the bearing full of grease, and it did push grease out of that gap. I think it might have pushed the seal out a little hydraulically too, so might not need to put quite so much grease in there.

But at any rate, I know the bearings have grease in them now, and after a wipe down the metal seals are still in place so hopefully this will prolong the life of the bearings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Got the new ring gear installed in the diff this morning, along with new seals.

Got rear diff reinstalled in the frame, greasing the crud out of the splines on the driveshaft where it goes onto the output shaft, and where it goes into the rear diff coupler. Loaded up splines in ring gear with grease too.

Got rear brake cleaned up, and spun the caliper piston back in and got the brake pads and caliper reinstalled. Bled the rear brake caliper just to be safe, and then ran out of time.

After bleeding and pumping the foot brake (hydraulic) it locked up the rear end and now I can't spin it. Not sure if it will loosen up after I spin the rear end a little or if I should take the caliper and pads back off again. The caliper piston spun in easily when I pushed/turned it back in, and the brakes bled fine so I know the M/C is working properly.

Had to get to my 8-5 so had to stop for the day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Got this buttoned up over the weekend.

Works great and pulls much better with both rear wheels pulling.

Rear brake still doesn't work right so I ordered new EBC pads for it and am going to take the caliper off and clean it at some point. At least it's running and driving again. Probably be a bit before the wife rides it, LOL
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
About this Discussion
13 Replies
3 Participants
Jeepwm69
Honda ATV Forum
We’re a forum community dedicated to Honda ATV owners & enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about upgrades and reliability for your Rancher, Foreman, Recon, FourTrax, Pioneer, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Top