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Discussion Starter #1
I will start a new post here. Instead of buying a used bottom core, of which I sent one back already, I am gonna use my spare engine to build up. I firmly believe it has way fewer hours on it than the engine I pulled as the crankshaft is in wonderful shape, almost no connecting rod wobble and wrist pin hole tight. So here's where I am, the spare engine is all torn apart and split. I want to clean the old oil and whatever else from the halves and covers, I did buy some Dawn and it did a pretty good job but there are areas I can't get at to brush to loosen up. Can I just buy some engine degreaser to spray and wash out when loosened? How do you guys clean the engine halves? I am not worried about the outside so much just want to clean the worst mess off. That's where I'm starting then progress. The crank is removed and have to take the tranny gears out again also.
 

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I don't stick to a recipe very often, so I use whatever I have on hand to clean up cases and parts. But I generally brush them with Super Clean (purple jug) and water mixed (using stiff plastic & small stainless brushes) to remove most of the dirt and grunge inside and out. Then rinse well, blow them dry and wash them again in mineral spirits before blowing them dry for assembly.

The internals usually clean up easily, so you can use whatever you have on hand that is cheap and plentiful to clean up most of those parts. I always use mineral spirits with a plastic brush on clutch parts to remove/flush out the old motor oil (farmers around here never heard of JASO MA and NEVER change oil in anything) from the frictions, then give 'em a bath in 91% rubbing alcohol before blowing them off and hanging them to completely dry. Soak those flushed clean clutch frictions in clean JASO MA motor oil before installation and coat every moving part with clean oil as you assemble them.

In this area we have red clay that stains the cases badly. To date I've found nothing that removes all of that... 'cept media blasting. And I'm too tight to spend money on that. So once the motors are back together I spray 'n wipe the cases down with alcohol, then tape them off and spray paint them.

Partzilla is a useful reference for putting all of the various bolt lengths back in where they belong, as each parts fiche lists the locations and lengths for all of the bolts (and dowels)... saves ya from accidentally putting a 28mm long bolt in the case where it calls for a 24mm bolt... then coming up one 28mm bolt short later on... an' don't remember where ya stabbed the wrong bolt. :)

If any of y'all have any secrets to getting red clay outta porous aluminum cases, please share!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I just got done removing all the gasket material from both engine halves. Then I bought a couple cans of Gunk and worked on one side of each half at a time. I sprayed heavily and did scrub with a brush and found some small foam touch up paint brushes that worked really well for the tight spots. Both halves cleaned up pretty well, the outsides didn't clean quite as well, especially the bottom. I did not remove bearings, when I got done I blew the whole area dry on both sides then put clean oil in the bearings. Except for one of them, which I dorked up, they all appear to be in good shape. They spin very freely both directions after I put some oil back in them. I don't think I need a wholesale bearing change except for the bad one. The SM does say to replace the crank bearings, if they spin freely is that necessary?


I have been going back and forth for a couple weeks trying to decide how I wanted to do this, but just said why get another bottom half and have more parts sitting around. So I know this is what you guys have been telling me to do as I will know there is nothing inside the engine to mess the top end up. I also figured the extra crank is in better shape than anything I have seen so why not use it, nice and tight....
 

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I like to run taps in all the threaded holes , worth the trouble as there is always at least one hole that the threads are messed up in ----- blow out every oil journal and threaded hole , I like Part and Brake Cleaner first then compressed air
 

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I'm a tightwad. I don't replace a bearing unless it needs to be replaced, or if its a motor thats been sunk or has high mileage I'll dump them. But I don't see many of those... if they look good dry (no races damage, rust or pitting) and feel good and tight oiled I run 'em.

I buy a new seal kit (Winderosa is cheap and the seals fit good) and a complete gasket kit every time. I prefer OEM valve seals over the valve seals that come with the gasket kits, so I usually buy those separate. The OEM head gasket is sometimes better quality too, depending on how much is spent on the gasket kit it seems.

You got it made with that good, tight crank and rod. Only other part ya might want to scrutinize is the oil pump. If yours looks good, has no deep scoring from trash and is still tighter than the specs allow, run it. If questionable, replace it. It sounds like you have everything covered though.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Found a Winderosa oil seal kit on Ebay for my engine, it has 6 seals so gonna order it.


I don't have my other engine torn apart yet, waiting until I am gonna start transferring parts. I will check the oil pump on the spare engine to see what it looks like.


I will stay with the bearings then except for the one I messed up. I have another on the front cover that is questionable also. I will see what it looks like after the good cleaning.



Tomorrow gonna clean old gaskets and do the Gunk cleaning on both the covers from the spare. I don't know what happened to that engine but the halves and covers look fine so will use them. Sure glad I took the old engine when I bought this.
 

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When you replace the seals in the cases, wipe the bores out good with some alcohol on a rag before driving new ones in. The seal in the rear cover for the emergency shifter shaft usually pushes in a bit too easily with a thumb... so I always smear a thin film of Ultra Black gasket maker on the outer surface of that seal to prevent a possible wicking oil leak around that seal in the future. The seal for the sub-shifter shaft where that shaft comes out through the front cover on ES bikes gets the same treatment. All of the other new seals fit the bores tightly on a 450, so I drive them in dry. Pack all those seal lips with a small amount of grease during assembly.

If you don't have a full assortment of seal drivers (very few of us do), you can use the old seals or old bearing races to drive them in. Sometimes you can find sockets in your toolbox that fits the new seals diameters just right too. Smack 'em down straight using a plastic or a brass hammer.

Its great that you have so many good spare motor parts to choose from. Builds confidence. :)
 

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farmers around here never heard of JASO MA and NEVER change oil in anything
^^^^^ Correct, same deal here on my end,
 

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Wood is good! :) You can use whatever ya have handy that fits the outer diameters pretty closely. In the past I've used wooden dowels, PVC pipe fittings, sockets from my toolbox, old bearing races, old seals, plastic spools, sleeves & tubing, glass jars... I could go on and on... there are a gazillion different round things around the garage that might work great as seal & bearing drivers. If ya got nothing else to choose from you can use the old ones to drive in the new.
 

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Here's a seal driving tip that I learned the hard way:
If you're driving seals into knuckles or axle tubes or other places where grease is the primary lube behind those seals, always pack grease around the garter spring inside the back of the seal to prevent the garter spring from flying off of the rubber seal lip when you hit it. You'd be surprised how often that can happen... grease holds the spring in place for you though, so you can drive on them pretty hard.

But on a motor you don't dare pack garter springs with grease. It fouls the wet clutches and clogs oil filters... so if you have to drive seals into motor cases that have a garter spring inside them, drive them using several light taps of the hammer, rather than just giving them 1 or 2 heavy whacks. After the seal is seated shine a light behind it to make sure the garter spring stayed put. :)
 

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Found a Winderosa oil seal kit on Ebay for my engine, it has 6 seals so gonna order it.


I don't have my other engine torn apart yet, waiting until I am gonna start transferring parts. I will check the oil pump on the spare engine to see what it looks like.


I will stay with the bearings then except for the one I messed up. I have another on the front cover that is questionable also. I will see what it looks like after the good cleaning.



Tomorrow gonna clean old gaskets and do the Gunk cleaning on both the covers from the spare. I don't know what happened to that engine but the halves and covers look fine so will use them. Sure glad I took the old engine when I bought this.
Might check that against quadboss. On the 300 gasket sets they're the same exact thing, and the QB was cheaper.

https://www.hondaatvforums.net/forums/builds-projects-diy/127794-1997-trx300fw.html#post1274612
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Found a Winderosa oil seal kit on Ebay for my engine, it has 6 seals so gonna order it.


I don't have my other engine torn apart yet, waiting until I am gonna start transferring parts. I will check the oil pump on the spare engine to see what it looks like.


I will stay with the bearings then except for the one I messed up. I have another on the front cover that is questionable also. I will see what it looks like after the good cleaning.



Tomorrow gonna clean old gaskets and do the Gunk cleaning on both the covers from the spare. I don't know what happened to that engine but the halves and covers look fine so will use them. Sure glad I took the old engine when I bought this.
Might check that against quadboss. On the 300 gasket sets they're the same exact thing, and the QB was cheaper.

https://www.hondaatvforums.net/forums/builds-projects-diy/127794-1997-trx300fw.html#post1274612
Good info but I did order the Winderosa seals last night....
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So I have a few bearings that need to be replaced, the ones with access behind should be easy as I'm not worried about wrecking them. I have 2 that have no access, what's the best way to pull them out? I'm sure Honda makes a special tool but do you have a handy dandy way using tools that most have sitting around? And one is a very small one on the front cover where the shift motor attaches. Thanks....
 

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A blind bearing puller/slide hammer set works the best, along with some even heating of the case to expand the aluminum, which relaxes the press-fit grip the aluminum has on the bearing.

Evenly heating the aluminum case to 200-250 degrees in an oven or in boiling water might allow them to drop right out without using any tools on them. I usually reheat the cases before installing large diameter bearings too, they go in so much easier.

When installing most small bearings reheating the case is not as important. I generally lightly oil the bores and the outer surfaces of the races and tap them in straight. If they don't go easy then I may stop and heat them up a bit though.

If you don't have a blind bearing puller set handy ya gotta improvise with whatever ya got lying around that you can make work. Or make a tool that suits the task from scratch. But before you rummage through your trick bags looking for ideas, try evenly heating the case (don't use a torch) up to 200-250 degrees and lightly tap around each bearing area with hard plastic or wood that you want to fall out.

That little tiny bearing supporting the shift motor reduction gears may be a bit more challenging to remove than the larger ones are. But it has metal shields on its sides which almost completely seal it up, so you can probably use hydraulic pressure (grease) to pop it out of there.

Are you sure that little ES shifter bearing is bad? They all feel like they have octagon shaped balls inside them when they are clean and dry.... which they actually do... The only time they feel good is when they are packed with grease. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
OK thanks for the info....


The tiny bearing turns fairly smoothly just has some rust on it, that cover is off the engine I removed and seemed to shift fine so maybe not necessary. It is not frozen , oiled up good and turns well, just thought it should go....
 

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bearing race / seal driver , I have a couple of sets of them , but over the years have needed different sizes , I save the old races from jobs , weld a plate to the races , grind the outside OD down a bit , drill a hole in the middle and attach it to the driver handle , makes a good race / seal driver ----sometimes I just use a chisel with the cutting edge grinded down flat and walk it around
 

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Discussion Starter #19
bearing race / seal driver , I have a couple of sets of them , but over the years have needed different sizes , I save the old races from jobs , weld a plate to the races , grind the outside OD down a bit , drill a hole in the middle and attach it to the driver handle , makes a good race / seal driver ----sometimes I just use a chisel with the cutting edge grinded down flat and walk it around

I don't anticipate needing to use those tools very often, hopefully if this project goes well maybe never again. I have a mechanic friend who says he can remove them for me so will probably take him up. I do favors for him alot so he returns it.



See you're from LA, will say some prayers for your area with the storm dumping rain....
 
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