[pace3406]

Hey guys. Fairly new to the forum. I recently posted about buying my son a 2002 Rancher ES from the neighbor that had been sitting for a few years. We put a fresh filter and oil in it, put a new carburetor and cleaned out the gas tank and it ran like a top all summer. A few weeks ago, a valve started tapping so I read up and watched a couple of YouTube videos on adjusting the valves. I did that according to the video and the tapping was gone so if figured all was good. Fast forward a couple of weeks and we started noticing a little smoke. Smokes pretty good until it’s warmed up then clears out mostly. I am wondering if the valve adjustment had something to do with it? I know it’s usually the rings worn out but since I just did the valve adjustment it’s got me curious. It’s definitely losing oil. Anybody got any advice to get me started troubleshooting? Thanks


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[pace3406]

This is the video I watched.

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[shadetree]

smoking , as you already know^^, can be from worn valve guide seals ?, worn rings/cylinder ?. valve adjustment has nothing to do with it smoking.

 

[pace3406]

smoking , as you already know^^, can be from worn valve guide seals ?, worn rings/cylinder ?. valve adjustment has nothing to do with it smoking.

Thanks for the help shadetree. Well at least I know it’s not totally my fault lol.
I got a compression gauge. 78 psi. I think spec is 97. Time for a top end rebuild I guess. What ya think?



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[SamUK]

smoking , as you already know^^, can be from worn valve guide seals ?, worn rings/cylinder ?. valve adjustment has nothing to do with it smoking.

Thanks for the help shadetree. Well at least I know it’s not totally my fault lol.
I got a compression gauge. 78 psi. I think spec is 97. Time for a top end rebuild I guess. What ya think?



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97psi? Do you mean 197 is spec? 97 seems a very very low figure to me.

 

[pace3406]

smoking , as you already know^^, can be from worn valve guide seals ?, worn rings/cylinder ?. valve adjustment has nothing to do with it smoking.

Thanks for the help shadetree. Well at least I know it’s not totally my fault lol.

I got a compression gauge. 78 psi. I think spec is 97. Time for a top end rebuild I guess. What ya think?







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97psi? Do you mean 197 is spec? 97 seems a very very low figure to me.

That’s what I read somewhere. 97 psi.


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[shadetree]

smoking , as you already know^^, can be from worn valve guide seals ?, worn rings/cylinder ?. valve adjustment has nothing to do with it smoking.

Thanks for the help shadetree. Well at least I know it’s not totally my fault lol.
I got a compression gauge. 78 psi. I think spec is 97. Time for a top end rebuild I guess. What ya think?



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I don't have my rancher manual in front of me, but that sounds close, down load the service manual from the site here, have a look.

 

[shadetree]

smoking , as you already know^^, can be from worn valve guide seals ?, worn rings/cylinder ?. valve adjustment has nothing to do with it smoking.

Thanks for the help shadetree. Well at least I know it’s not totally my fault lol.
I got a compression gauge. 78 psi. I think spec is 97. Time for a top end rebuild I guess. What ya think?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

97psi? Do you mean 197 is spec? 97 seems a very very low figure to me.

believe it or not ?, the early ranchers have a very low psi on compression.

 

[SamUK]

That’s surprised me! I thought it was a simple typo error in all honesty.

 

[shadetree]

That’s surprised me! I thought it was a simple typo error in all honesty.

yep, surprised me too years ago when I found out like you !..lmfao.

 

[shadetree]

smoking , as you already know^^, can be from worn valve guide seals ?, worn rings/cylinder ?. valve adjustment has nothing to do with it smoking.

Thanks for the help shadetree. Well at least I know it’s not totally my fault lol.
I got a compression gauge. 78 psi. I think spec is 97. Time for a top end rebuild I guess. What ya think?



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yep, sounds like a good engine over haul is in order. top end rebuild. i'd also replace the cam chain, and all oil seals while I was at it, this is just me though, tear it out, tear it down once, fix it once !..lol.

 

[retro]

97 PSI is the correct compression test spec. The Rancher motor has an automatic compression release that is active until the motor starts, or until RPMs increase to 450-550 RPMs.

A 78 PSI reading does not indicate a worn out topend though. Assuming that both valves are adjusted to exactly .006" cold, it indicates that you might have forgotten to open the throttle completely while cranking a fully warmed up motor, or the 12 mm adapter you used on the end of your compression tester is too short to fully thread into the top of the combustion chamber, or does not seal tightly in the spark plug hole, or does not have a low-pressure schrader valve on the end of the 12 mm adapter. Any of the above will contribute to low readings.

If the motor is burning oil (not leaking it out, or blowing into the airbox through the vent) then it probably just needs the valve seals replaced. You can do that job without taking the motor out or taking the head off. Cost is insignificant as well.

Unless... there is nothing wrong with the motor at all and it just needs a seriously overdue oil change due to carbon saturation and oil breakdown?

 

[pace3406]

If that’s all that’s wrong i would be ecstatic! The spark plug was coked up pretty bad and it was new when we got it a few months ago.


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[retro]

And to answer your question about valve lash & oil burning... yes, if you adjust a valve (or both) to insufficient clearance the valve(s) will not close fully (heat sinks into the seat & head) seated. They will leak hot combustion gases past the valve and they will begin to overheat terribly. Once a valve overheats (it only takes several seconds, less than a minute under load) heat escaping up the hot valve stem melts the thin valve seal lip that wipes excess oil off from the stem. At that time the seal will leak and needs replacement.

 

[retro]

If that’s all that’s wrong i would be ecstatic! The spark plug was coked up pretty bad and it was new when we got it a few months ago.

If you need any help replacing those seals just hollar!

EDIT: I gotta ask you this... any chance at all that the motor has been in deep water this summer?

 

[pace3406]

If that’s all that’s wrong i would be ecstatic! The spark plug was coked up pretty bad and it was new when we got it a few months ago.

If you need any help replacing those seals just hollar!

EDIT: I gotta ask you this... any chance at all that the motor has been in deep water this summer?

Retro Thanks! I’m sending you a pm. Negative on the water in the motor. Well, that’s what my son said. The oil wasn’t milky or anything.


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[retro]

What does the motor oil look like? Is it darkened to near black? How many hours are on the oil change?

Explain the smoking exhaust symptoms if you can... is it smoking only on deceleration? Or from idle on up... on acceleration? If you shut off the motor while its hot, then restart it after a couple minutes and drive away does it smoke a lot then begin to clear right away? The running conditions when the motor smokes the most can indicate where it is coming from.

 

[pace3406]

What does the motor oil look like? Is it darkened to near black? How many hours are on the oil change?

Explain the smoking exhaust symptoms if you can... is it smoking only on deceleration? Or from idle on up... on acceleration? If you shut off the motor while its hot, then restart it after a couple minutes and drive away does it smoke a lot then begin to clear right away? The running conditions when the motor smokes the most can indicate where it is coming from.

The oil probably has 50 hours on it. Looks ok. Not too dark.
I’ll be honest, I haven’t really had much time to dig that far into it yet. To answer your question, it smokes lightly on startup and isn’t too bad just sitting there idling. When you take off you get a steady light smoke and when you let off it smokes a lot for a second the dies down some. It never completely stops smoking


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[pace3406]

Is #11 in the picture the seals? Part list says o-ring ....

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[shadetree]

What does the motor oil look like? Is it darkened to near black? How many hours are on the oil change?

Explain the smoking exhaust symptoms if you can... is it smoking only on deceleration? Or from idle on up... on acceleration? If you shut off the motor while its hot, then restart it after a couple minutes and drive away does it smoke a lot then begin to clear right away? The running conditions when the motor smokes the most can indicate where it is coming from.

The oil probably has 50 hours on it. Looks ok. Not too dark.
I’ll be honest, I haven’t really had much time to dig that far into it yet. To answer your question, it smokes lightly on startup and isn’t too bad just sitting there idling. When you take off you get a steady light smoke and when you let off it smokes a lot for a second the dies down some. It never completely stops smoking


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this ^^^, tells me the rings could be worn ?, or leaking valve guide seals ?. either or both !. and no, the motor does not have to be removed in order to fix this.