Honda ATV Forum banner
1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First, a little information about myself:

I'm on the West Virginia Tech's SAE Baja team. We build a little buggy and compete against other schools, and I have been charged with trying to find a transmission for it. This year we are designing and making a completely new vehicle (maybe two).

I'm not designing a full tilt race vehicle so much as I'm designing a vehicle for a weekend off roader. We are limited to a Briggs 10 HP engine that is limited to 3800 RPM.

The gear ratios page on this forum was a HUGE help for me, as I haven't been able to find gear ratios for practically any utility ATV. The ranges of the gear ratios in the Honda transmissions are awesome and blow the other options I've been looking at out of the water. I have a few questions:

1) Does anyone know the gear ratios for the Recon? I assume they are similar through all years.

2) Can anyone help me find a wiring diagram for the ES systems and the AT systems? I need to know how much of a charging system we might need, or if it would be possible to rewire it so that the computer can't have any input on whether or not the vehicle is shifted. Knowledge of the system means that I can make the best choice, pretty much.

3) Does anyone have data about how much quicker the Rancher's new twin clutch AT shifts when compared to the old clutch styles?

4) What do all the names mean?! Specifically... a TRX350... is that the technical name for a Rancher? The letters always confuse the heck out of me... so an explanation about all that would be great.

I appreciate any help, guys. I've never "played" with ATVs so I'm completely unfamiliar with any ATV specific knowledge. I just dabble in the off road motorcycle world and the realm of mechanical engineering.

Updates will certainly come if I end up getting a Honda transmission. :tongue:

Obligatory picture of the buggy we inherited and my primary mode of transportation:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,735 Posts
If you ran a honda transmision you'd have to use the engine.They are a single unit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,963 Posts
^^^^^Agreed. Sorry to say but that is right trans. and engine are in the same case. Nice looking buggy toy have there though........And welcome to the forums! There are a lot of smart fellows on here if you need anything!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
We will have to make a solution for the case. Some teams have just cut the transmission from the engine and sealed the case off. It won't be pretty, but it should be able to work.

Because I have seen it work in the past, that is an issue I will have to try to tackle once I have the lower end of an engine in hand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,963 Posts
The way the trans. and engine are made I just don't see any way to cut it off. You would be better off trying to take the trans. parts and building a case around them. Have you looked at a handa engine closely?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,735 Posts
You could pull the piston and rod.Then drive the crank by a pulley somehow.Your right it wouldn't be pretty but it would work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Since I don't know specifically which style of engine/transmission we would use, I can't be specific. But if it works like a typical dirt bike transmission, the idea would be to remove the piston, rod, and the crankshaft and run our engine directly to the transmission input gear via a chain.

Close to what you said, Billy, but since every time you transfer power you lose some of it by heat it would be preferable to directly link the crankshaft of our engine to the transmission's input instead of a crank to crank pulley system. Not to mention it would be more weight that we'd also prefer not to have. The idea is to cut the engine case between the crank and the mainshaft of the transmission.

Admittedly, I have never tinkered with a shaft drive Honda and miraculously I haven't even been able to find a picture of the undercarriage of one.

This is definitely still in the brainstorming stage, so I appreciate the help, guys. I'd rather get proven wrong on the internet than end up with a high dollar door stop from Honda.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,963 Posts
I guess if it was done that way you would have to work out how you would keep it lubricated, and that would be a sizeable job in itself
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,735 Posts
If you used a two stroke the crankcase and the tranny are split from eachother by a aluminum casting so just remove the crank and you'd be good to go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I guess if it was done that way you would have to work out how you would keep it lubricated, and that would be a sizeable job in itself
I'm not looking forward to it, that's for sure. I really wish there was a "bolt on" transmission that would do what we need, but I haven't been able to find one except from the world of CVTs. And that's a world I don't want to visit for a number of reasons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,963 Posts
If you used a two stroke the crankcase and the tranny are split from eachother by a aluminum casting so just remove the crank and you'd be good to go.
Now were talking I didn't even think about the old 2-strokes, That should work really well!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
If you used a two stroke the crankcase and the tranny are split from eachother by a aluminum casting so just remove the crank and you'd be good to go.


... are there any utility type ATVs that are two stroke and have this "feature"?

/crosses fingers

Off I go to look for information on Honda's 2 stroke ATVs!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,963 Posts
Honda made the old threewheelers in 2-stroke that were utility
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,581 Posts
If you used a two stroke the crankcase and the tranny are split from eachother by a aluminum casting so just remove the crank and you'd be good to go.


... are there any utility type ATVs that are two stroke and have this "feature"?

/crosses fingers

Off I go to look for information on Honda's 2 stroke ATVs!
Most, if not all of the 2 stroke utilities, are made by Polaris and have CVT belt drive transmissions. Then you have the old Honda Oddysey, they were 2 stroke, but they had a CVT transmission, also.

I would have thought that the CVT would have been the best way to go. I believe you can buy a stand alone CVT for the application that you are attempting. I don't know the specifics to your project, so I guess it might not be the right transmission to go with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,735 Posts
Your best bet is to find a good blaster bottom end.Yes I know that it is not a honda but they are a really good bottom end unit.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,581 Posts
Your best bet is to find a good blaster bottom end.Yes I know that it is not a honda but they are a really good bottom end unit.
I wonder why he wants a utility? Maybe shaft drive? It's going to be hard to find a 2 stroke with shaft drive. Is he wanting just an automatic or is he wanting the semi-auto with the centrifugal clutch, like the 300 Honda utility? Does it have to be Honda? I read the post, but I'm still not clear on what he wants. I guess, maybe, he's not decided exactly what he's looking for, yet.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
18,230 Posts
Cintrifigal clutch system from a golfcart will work.. The best thing to run would be Hydrostatic IMO? a pump, a pedal, a function manifold or flow divider and a couple of coils
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
The reason for wanting the utility type buggy is that a wide range of gear ratios is needed for the speeds we might encounter on a race track. With our puny little engine, it would be great to have a 1st gear with as high of a ratio as ~4.2 so we can use the little torque we've got to get up a rock crawling section. Then after that, we might have to ride on a high speed series of turns at 35 mph, so it would be great to have a high gear with as low of a ratio of 0.78.

The problem with the Honda ATVs is that we are running TOO wide with too few gears, I think. When we shift from first to second, the RPM will go from 3800 to ~2100, which will drop us from ~10 hp to ~5.5 hp. This won't be good if we encounter a steep hill climb from a stop.

Utility ATVs usually have the best gear ratio ranges inside the gearbox. Sure we can change ratios via a final drive, but we would only lower our top speed or raise our top speed in first gear, both of which might be unacceptable if we come across the Nurburgring of buggy tracks.

Aside from that, this transmission might end up being used on a "utility" buggy of sorts. While some people in the group want to make a full race vehicle with wide ratios, 6 gears, and no reverse, it's my opinion that we want to have a wide range of gears and we MUST have a reverse. The buggy a couple of us are kind of splitting off and designing will have things like a charging system, headlights, a winch, storage capacity for tools on the trail we test on, etc. Essentially, it will be the workhorse for when the other one breaks or wrecks. Thus the clutch must be equipped to handle the high loads that it might see, and a utility ATV that weighs close to 600 pounds AND is designed to tow 800 or so will certainly cover what I think we need.

An auto clutch is a nice bonus, but also could be a con. I'm still kind of up in the air about that one. I don't like taking control away from the driver, but it would be nice to have a buggy that anyone can drive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,702 Posts
Wow this certainly is interesting, I can't wait to see how this pans out. I love following projects like this. Welcome to the Forums and keep us up to date!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,735 Posts
Yeah man keep us up to date.
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top