Honda ATV Forum banner
1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
AFter a ton of reading on BITOG i think i am going to switch to a HDEO oil after my valvolin motor cycle oil runs out. I have seen these motorcycle oils' VOA's and UOA's and for the $$ they are crap. the HDEO's like Rotella 5w40 (synthetic) and Rotella 15w40 (dino) are so much better. seems like tons of folks on that site use the rotella in their manual shift atv's.. what do you guys think?? i have noticed the valvoline shears like no tomorrow in an air cooled motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,735 Posts
I'd use the honda oil or amsoil synthetic.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,581 Posts
im gonna play around and see what works best for me i guess.
Yeah, that's probably going to be the best thing to do. Just try them and see which works best in your engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,963 Posts
I have run all kinds of oil in my 300 and I give it H**L when I ride. I have never had a problem with any oil. My guess is proper maintenance and tolerances inside the engine has more to do with how long an engine will last than anything. Granted friction from (BAD) oil will cause premature wear, there are quads out there that are 20 years old that have good compression and don't smoke that have been rode alot using Honda oil with proper oil changes........JMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have run all kinds of oil in my 300 and I give it H**L when I ride. I have never had a problem with any oil. My guess is proper maintenance and tolerances inside the engine has more to do with how long an engine will last than anything. Granted friction from (BAD) oil will cause premature wear, there are quads out there that are 20 years old that have good compression and don't smoke that have been rode alot using Honda oil with proper oil changes........JMO.
if you look at the VOA's (virgin analysis of new oil) you will see the yamalube and the honda lube have practically no goodies in it. for that price its just not cost worthy imo.. the HDEO shell rotella T6 5w40 is nothing short of awesome. what makes it better? its wet clutch approved JASO-MA .. plus its as much as the dino honda oil if not cheaper. far far better addtive package, more robust and far better wear protection.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,581 Posts
I have run all kinds of oil in my 300 and I give it H**L when I ride. I have never had a problem with any oil. My guess is proper maintenance and tolerances inside the engine has more to do with how long an engine will last than anything. Granted friction from (BAD) oil will cause premature wear, there are quads out there that are 20 years old that have good compression and don't smoke that have been rode alot using Honda oil with proper oil changes........JMO.
I agree with Submarine on this one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have run all kinds of oil in my 300 and I give it H**L when I ride. I have never had a problem with any oil. My guess is proper maintenance and tolerances inside the engine has more to do with how long an engine will last than anything. Granted friction from (BAD) oil will cause premature wear, there are quads out there that are 20 years old that have good compression and don't smoke that have been rode alot using Honda oil with proper oil changes........JMO.
I agree with Submarine on this one.
just giving you guys a cheaper and better option for your atv oil is all :icon_cool:... the oils the manufacters sell are nothing great. and for the price it makes it worse esp if you are cost vs return type of person. remember they bid to the lowest cost so dont expect much. this like mentioned before falls back on the quality of the atv's motor as well. seems like some you can put olive oil in there and it will run great for years. props to any manufacturer that builds such a quality machine. however, since most of these machines are air cooled the stress on the oil (along with the gears) really puts triple the strain on oil. the rotella as proven, has taken this abuse with room to spare. most manufactuer oils dont even compare. lots of farmers, truckers and other small engine abusers rely on the this oil a lot due to the cost vs return. just something to think about is all
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,581 Posts
I'm not saying Rotella isn't good oil. All I'm saying is if the oil is changed regularly and kept clean, Honda oil will work just fine. Rotella could very well be better oil and I don't doubt what it isn't better oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,702 Posts
I did similar research when I got my 300 and found the Rotella to be great oil also. I have been and will continue to use it in my bike. I change the oil more often then I probably need to but the oil is so much cheaper I don't feel bad about that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,963 Posts
I have run all kinds of oil in my 300 and I give it H**L when I ride. I have never had a problem with any oil. My guess is proper maintenance and tolerances inside the engine has more to do with how long an engine will last than anything. Granted friction from (BAD) oil will cause premature wear, there are quads out there that are 20 years old that have good compression and don't smoke that have been rode alot using Honda oil with proper oil changes........JMO.
if you look at the VOA's (virgin analysis of new oil) you will see the yamalube and the honda lube have practically no goodies in it. for that price its just not cost worthy imo.. the HDEO shell rotella T6 5w40 is nothing short of awesome. what makes it better? its wet clutch approved JASO-MA .. plus its as much as the dino honda oil if not cheaper. far far better addtive package, more robust and far better wear protection.
I'm not saying that Rotella is not better oil than honda. The U.S. Army did a study also several years back and it was on new oil and old oil. They compared chemicial breakdown of each after a set number of running hours and found that the breakdown of the same type of oil in the same (NEW) engine was completely different. What caused this is the engines can come off the assembly line one right after another but because of the wear on the bits of the milling machines no two engines have the same tolerances. So to have a oil preform at its best it would have to be designed completly to that single engine. In one case the assembly line built one of their engines and shut down for the weekend and replaced a wore bit that machined the crank. after comparing the last engine of the friday shutdown to the engine of the start up the folling week there was a well marked increase in tolerances. Therefore a lower viscosity oil was needed for the startup engine. so what they found is no peticular oil lubricates the same in any one engine. They found that some parts with the lowest tolerances were prematurely failing because of a thinner oil while some were not getting enough oil due to the oil not being able to penetrate the areas of high tolerances well. so what oil is right for one engine may very well not be right for the next.......But that is their conclusion.?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,280 Posts
Without talking about brands, I did some light reading on oils.

The xW-y oil ratings, for example 10w-30, came about after the introduction of polymers to oil. It is said polymers is the best thing to happen to oil since sliced bread, but it also comes at a cost. The cost being added stuff in the oil that can burn.

The higher that dash number, i.e. 10w-30 v. 10w-40 means there is more added stuff in the 10w-40 oil.

The additives in the oil act to thicken the oil as it heats up. At ambient temperature, the 10w number in this example means it is the same weight as 10 weight oil at cold temperatures. The additives, which are spiral, cork-screw shaped polymers, are tightly wound when cold. As the oil heats up, the polymer spirals expand causing the oil to get thicker. The oil thereby never is allowed to get thinner than Y grade oil would ever get when hot. So, 10 weight when cold, 40 weight when hot, for a 10W-40 oil.

However, due to the required additives required for larger ranged oil ratings, 10w-30 vs. 10w-40, the 10w-40 oil requires more polymers and therefore is more susceptible to burning at higher temps due to all the extra stuff.

In short. Use the least extra stuff in your oil as you can get by with under your conditions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,963 Posts
I have to change my oil so I'm doing it today while it's warm. I will use the rotella for a change.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Without talking about brands, I did some light reading on oils.

The xW-y oil ratings, for example 10w-30, came about after the introduction of polymers to oil. It is said polymers is the best thing to happen to oil since sliced bread, but it also comes at a cost. The cost being added stuff in the oil that can burn.

The higher that dash number, i.e. 10w-30 v. 10w-40 means there is more added stuff in the 10w-40 oil.

The additives in the oil act to thicken the oil as it heats up. At ambient temperature, the 10w number in this example means it is the same weight as 10 weight oil at cold temperatures. The additives, which are spiral, cork-screw shaped polymers, are tightly wound when cold. As the oil heats up, the polymer spirals expand causing the oil to get thicker. The oil thereby never is allowed to get thinner than Y grade oil would ever get when hot. So, 10 weight when cold, 40 weight when hot, for a 10W-40 oil.

However, due to the required additives required for larger ranged oil ratings, 10w-30 vs. 10w-40, the 10w-40 oil requires more polymers and therefore is more susceptible to burning at higher temps due to all the extra stuff.

In short. Use the least extra stuff in your oil as you can get by with under your conditions.
that last part i think is untrue. it will only be true if you over use the oil (extended drains). which i would hope most of us do not do. i would research that a little more is all. i do see where you are trying to get at but the oils now a days can take a serious beating,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,280 Posts
It's not untrue because I didn't list any conditions under which to use any particular oil. 10w-40 has more additives than 10w-30, and therefore may burn under more adverse conditions. That's all.

Is it likely any of us will burn our oils? No. I wasn't trying to speak to recommending any oil, but rather was just talking about the chemistry of oil, which I'm sure is much much more involved than what I read about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,702 Posts
Yes I was researching oil simply because I'm not close to a honda dealer, I got a freaking headache reading all the blah blah blah but I figure out that Rotella which I know is a good oil meets or exceeds the recommended specifications and I can buy it locally. Therefore I chose to use it. I know alot of diesel guys LOVE rotella oil and they put alot of hard miles on their equipment. I'm sure Honda oils is good oil I just don't have access to it easily.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It's not untrue because I didn't list any conditions under which to use any particular oil. 10w-40 has more additives than 10w-30, and therefore may burn under more adverse conditions. That's all.

Is it likely any of us will burn our oils? No. I wasn't trying to speak to recommending any oil, but rather was just talking about the chemistry of oil, which I'm sure is much much more involved than what I read about it.
do you happen to have a link regarding this? just curious. usually the lower the wt oil has the more additives. it has to be able to take a more beating while being thinner at the same time and keeping within wt grade. (shearing). take 5w20 for example it has more "additives" than 5w30 even with some groupIII oil as well. group III is what americans call "synthetic" its really not its just a more refined oil. syn isnt really syn until we get to group 4-5, PAO and ester based oils. kind of got off subject there:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,280 Posts
No. I didn't keep it, I was just surfing around and found various sites talking about it. What I read said that in order to keep the oil thick as it gets hot, it requires more polymers. i.e. with everything else being equal, 10w-40 would have more thickening polymers than 10w-30 of the same brand.

That doesn't mean 10w-30 won't have more of other stuff.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top