[Jeepwm69]

On the tube style rear axles (Foreman, Rubicon, 350 Rancher etc) we all end up with water in our axle tube on the left side, and a brake drum full of water on the right side. Sometimes we even replace the bearings and seals, and STILL get water in there.

Here's why.

This is on my 2006 Foreman FM. I replaced the left axle bearing and seal, but STILL had water getting in there.

Note the hub surface on the old hub, vs the hub surface on the new hub. That grooved area is what seals against the new seal. When you get grooves in the hub, it cannot seal up against the new seal you install, so water still gets in.

In the bikes i've worked on, a lot of them have grass or other debris wrapped around the hub which not only destoys the seal, but also eventually will groove the hub.

Sooo, if you're going to do a rear end rebuild, it might not be enough to replace your bearings and seals. Inspect your hubs and if the sealing surface is worn or grooved, you need to replace the hub(s) as well.

 

[mrbb]

cool, I guess its easy to miss things like that when your sure what the issue's

I know when mine seals/bearings went, I did look things over really good, and mine were still groove free and , haven't had any leaks since
but I also think checking them often and not running them when the wheel bearings start to go, don'
t wait till there REAL bad to replace, as by then damage is already done I bet!
another reason it pays to do PM 's more often and inspect things

 

[Jeepwm69]

Yep. Noticed some that were grooved much worse than that on an 06 I parted out a while back, and Basfnb's Rubicon (over on Hondaforeman) were MUCH worse that that.

We put new bearings and seals all through his rear end and he was still getting water in the brake drum and left axle tube. The grooves weren't allowing the hubs to seal to the brake drum cover and the end of the axle tube.

In looking at my 06, I found the same thing on the left side. The brake side hub looked good.

I also added grease zerks to my left axle tubes on my machines, and filled the axle tube with grease. It can't hurt anything, and if water does seep past the seal (like when we're duck hunting on the rigs, sitting in water for prolonged periods) it won't be able to get to the diff.

 

[misterclean59]

Machining the hub to accept a bushing is a good idea so the bushing can be replaced with the seal. I've seen dirt bikes with this idea on axles and Countershafts.

 

[Manny]

This also happens to ring gears in the rear differential. People will also overlook this while rebuilding.

 

[Jeepwm69]

Machining the hub to accept a bushing is a good idea so the bushing can be replaced with the seal. I've seen dirt bikes with this idea on axles and Countershafts.

I wish someone around me had the skill to do something like that. I hate to toss the old hubs (still technically work, but for water riding they're no good anymore.

 

[shadetree]

Machining the hub to accept a bushing is a good idea so the bushing can be replaced with the seal. I've seen dirt bikes with this idea on axles and Countershafts.

I wish someone around me had the skill to do something like that. I hate to toss the old hubs (still technically work, but for water riding they're no good anymore.

the brake side hub has a replaceable metal seal on it, it is pressed on the hub. the left rears on the other hand, has to be replaced as a whole hub, as they don't have a metal seal pressed on them ?, which makes you have to buy a whole new left rear hub !. not sure why Honda didn't make the left rear hubs the same as the right rear hubs ?, this would be easier on us, but then Honda would not make as much money on parts huh !..lol. as for the grooves in them ?, the seal puts these on them over time, you wouldn't think rubber would wear down metal ?, BUT THEY DO !. any time I am working on or around hubs, front or back ?, I always check this !!.

 

[rodp]

Machining the hub to accept a bushing is a good idea so the bushing can be replaced with the seal. I've seen dirt bikes with this idea on axles and Countershafts.

I wish someone around me had the skill to do something like that. I hate to toss the old hubs (still technically work, but for water riding they're no good anymore.

You don't need to machine them, there's sleeves made especially for the job.

SKF Speedi-Sleeve prevents seal worn shafts

We used to fit them without the tool, just get the new sleeve hot in boiling oil and slide it on QUICKLY. You could probably use a hot air gun as well to heat it, main thing is you don't get the sleeve too hot with a blowtorch.

 

[Jeepwm69]

Very neat.

I just gave away my last grooved hub, but I need to figure out what size I need for future use.

SKF Speedi-Sleeve

 

[rodp]

They've been around for years, work quite well.

 

[Jeepwm69]

Machining the hub to accept a bushing is a good idea so the bushing can be replaced with the seal. I've seen dirt bikes with this idea on axles and Countershafts.

I wish someone around me had the skill to do something like that. I hate to toss the old hubs (still technically work, but for water riding they're no good anymore.

You don't need to machine them, there's sleeves made especially for the job.

SKF Speedi-Sleeve prevents seal worn shafts

We used to fit them without the tool, just get the new sleeve hot in boiling oil and slide it on QUICKLY. You could probably use a hot air gun as well to heat it, main thing is you don't get the sleeve too hot with a blowtorch.

SKF Speedi-Sleeve should never be heated prior to installation. Using heat will cause the sleeve to expand, but when it cools, it may not contract back to its original size, resulting in a loose fit on the shaft.

So if you can't heat it, how do you get it on without tearing it up, and if you don't have to turn down the hub, wouldn't the sleeve add enough material to make the sealing surface too big to fit the seal properly?

Very neat concept. Doesn't look economically feasible right now as it looks like most of the speedi sleeves are $30 or so on Amazon, and a new hub is only about $40, but in the future, we know prices on hubs will go up on older models so assuming speedi sleeves don't go up exponentially like Honda parts do, they will most certainly be a viable option in the future.

Have you used these on Honda hubs Rod, or in other applications?

 

[rodp]

I wish someone around me had the skill to do something like that. I hate to toss the old hubs (still technically work, but for water riding they're no good anymore.

You don't need to machine them, there's sleeves made especially for the job.

SKF Speedi-Sleeve prevents seal worn shafts

We used to fit them without the tool, just get the new sleeve hot in boiling oil and slide it on QUICKLY. You could probably use a hot air gun as well to heat it, main thing is you don't get the sleeve too hot with a blowtorch.

SKF Speedi-Sleeve should never be heated prior to installation. Using heat will cause the sleeve to expand, but when it cools, it may not contract back to its original size, resulting in a loose fit on the shaft.

So if you can't heat it, how do you get it on without tearing it up, and if you don't have to turn down the hub, wouldn't the sleeve add enough material to make the sealing surface too big to fit the seal properly?

Very neat concept. Doesn't look economically feasible right now as it looks like most of the speedi sleeves are $30 or so on Amazon, and a new hub is only about $40, but in the future, we know prices on hubs will go up on older models so assuming speedi sleeves don't go up exponentially like Honda parts do, they will most certainly be a viable option in the future.

Have you used these on Honda hubs Rod, or in other applications?

That's why we used to heat them in oil, can't damage them. Never had a problem with using them when heated that way. There are cheaper alternatives around now I believe as the patent has probably long expired, they've been around for years.
We used to use them now and then on the trucks, hub seals and gearbox shaft seals etc. They always worked just fine. Not tried on an atv though, but can't see them being any different.

 

[shadetree]

You don't need to machine them, there's sleeves made especially for the job.

SKF Speedi-Sleeve prevents seal worn shafts

We used to fit them without the tool, just get the new sleeve hot in boiling oil and slide it on QUICKLY. You could probably use a hot air gun as well to heat it, main thing is you don't get the sleeve too hot with a blowtorch.

SKF Speedi-Sleeve should never be heated prior to installation. Using heat will cause the sleeve to expand, but when it cools, it may not contract back to its original size, resulting in a loose fit on the shaft.

So if you can't heat it, how do you get it on without tearing it up, and if you don't have to turn down the hub, wouldn't the sleeve add enough material to make the sealing surface too big to fit the seal properly?

Very neat concept. Doesn't look economically feasible right now as it looks like most of the speedi sleeves are $30 or so on Amazon, and a new hub is only about $40, but in the future, we know prices on hubs will go up on older models so assuming speedi sleeves don't go up exponentially like Honda parts do, they will most certainly be a viable option in the future.

Have you used these on Honda hubs Rod, or in other applications?

That's why we used to heat them in oil, can't damage them. Never had a problem with using them when heated that way. There are cheaper alternatives around now I believe as the patent has probably long expired, they've been around for years.
We used to use them now and then on the trucks, hub seals and gearbox shaft seals etc. They always worked just fine. Not tried on an atv though, but can't see them being any different.

for what they prob cost ?, you can just buy a brand new hub from Honda, and not worry about it.

 

[SamUK]

SKF Speedi-Sleeve should never be heated prior to installation. Using heat will cause the sleeve to expand, but when it cools, it may not contract back to its original size, resulting in a loose fit on the shaft.

So if you can't heat it, how do you get it on without tearing it up, and if you don't have to turn down the hub, wouldn't the sleeve add enough material to make the sealing surface too big to fit the seal properly?

Very neat concept. Doesn't look economically feasible right now as it looks like most of the speedi sleeves are $30 or so on Amazon, and a new hub is only about $40, but in the future, we know prices on hubs will go up on older models so assuming speedi sleeves don't go up exponentially like Honda parts do, they will most certainly be a viable option in the future.

Have you used these on Honda hubs Rod, or in other applications?

That's why we used to heat them in oil, can't damage them. Never had a problem with using them when heated that way. There are cheaper alternatives around now I believe as the patent has probably long expired, they've been around for years.
We used to use them now and then on the trucks, hub seals and gearbox shaft seals etc. They always worked just fine. Not tried on an atv though, but can't see them being any different.

for what they prob cost ?, you can just buy a brand new hub from Honda, and not worry about it.

Not in the UK, I wouldn't use Honda main dealer for any parts, just cost to much. I'd expect no change from £100 for a hub.

 

[shadetree]

That's why we used to heat them in oil, can't damage them. Never had a problem with using them when heated that way. There are cheaper alternatives around now I believe as the patent has probably long expired, they've been around for years.
We used to use them now and then on the trucks, hub seals and gearbox shaft seals etc. They always worked just fine. Not tried on an atv though, but can't see them being any different.

for what they prob cost ?, you can just buy a brand new hub from Honda, and not worry about it.

Not in the UK, I wouldn't use Honda main dealer for any parts, just cost to much. I'd expect no change from £100 for a hub.

prob cheaper here though !..lol.

 

[Jeepwm69]

SKF Speedi-Sleeve should never be heated prior to installation. Using heat will cause the sleeve to expand, but when it cools, it may not contract back to its original size, resulting in a loose fit on the shaft.

So if you can't heat it, how do you get it on without tearing it up, and if you don't have to turn down the hub, wouldn't the sleeve add enough material to make the sealing surface too big to fit the seal properly?

Very neat concept. Doesn't look economically feasible right now as it looks like most of the speedi sleeves are $30 or so on Amazon, and a new hub is only about $40, but in the future, we know prices on hubs will go up on older models so assuming speedi sleeves don't go up exponentially like Honda parts do, they will most certainly be a viable option in the future.

Have you used these on Honda hubs Rod, or in other applications?

That's why we used to heat them in oil, can't damage them. Never had a problem with using them when heated that way. There are cheaper alternatives around now I believe as the patent has probably long expired, they've been around for years.
We used to use them now and then on the trucks, hub seals and gearbox shaft seals etc. They always worked just fine. Not tried on an atv though, but can't see them being any different.

for what they prob cost ?, you can just buy a brand new hub from Honda, and not worry about it.

For now, but you know that 10 years from now that new hub that is $40 now will be $150. Then it will make sense to use the shim.

Hell those side plastics were about $30 each when my sister wrecked my Foreman back in 2010-2011. Now they're $120/ side.

That's why I've started hoarding parts. The older my machines get, and the more I NEED parts, the more expensive they'll be.

 

[Jeepwm69]

Good use for these would be on TRX250 and 350D rear hubs. No longer available, but I'm guessing most of them out there are grooved and won't seal up.

I've got a 250 rear end for some 300 project down the road. If the hubs on that are grooved I'll be getting some of these sleeves since OEM hubs are no longer available.

 

[shadetree]

Good use for these would be on TRX250 and 350D rear hubs. No longer available, but I'm guessing most of them out there are grooved and won't seal up.

I've got a 250 rear end for some 300 project down the road. If the hubs on that are grooved I'll be getting some of these sleeves since OEM hubs are no longer available.

here is a better idea !. use a steel sleeve from a right rear hub !, they will be around for many years, they still use them on todays newer atvs, you would have to put the left hub on a lath , to turn them down so the steel seal can be pressed on ?, but this can be done over and over until they stop making the steel seals. not sure what kinda trouble this all would be ?, but worth a shot. I've got a spare hub or two around here I think ?, gonna study this .

 

[shadetree]

just mic'd the left rear hub, seems it's smaller then the right rear ?, sooo..no lath work, maybe some welding to build it up ?..lol. I thought I had a used steel right hub sleeve ?, musta tossed it out, as the splines were shot..lol. if and when I find another steel sleeve ?, I will check this stuff out.