[jfish]

Searched forum but couldn’t find exactly what I am dealing with? Have a 2002 Rancher 2wd. Its a garage queen, used during hunting season never submergered no corrosion issues.

Developed a squeal in the front end this season and suspected debris in drum? Squeal comes and goes intermittently. Pulled drums and they were found to be like new inside. The left side did have brake dust build up as compared to right but nothing to alarm me.

Here is the question? With the wheel/tire removed the drum is pretty tight to spin. Unlike a trailer wheel you can’t free spin the drum you almost need two hands to rotate it. There is no free spinning what so ever. I don’t hear anything rubbing, nor feel anything other that smooth resistance. The rubber seal along the outer edge of the drum is like new, still has a light colored grease in the seam. The bearings feel like new, and the resistance seem to occur once the drum is pushed on all the way and the rubber seal is in contact with the brake plate. The shoes are fully retracted.

Is it normal for there to be resistance as described? You can turn it with one hands but it’s not an easy spin by any means. The plate and rubber seal is clean like new. Wondering if there is a special lube or something that should be applied to the rubber seal surface? It has done an amazing job of keeping debris and water out of the brake assembly but wow! What a power robber is has to be. Kinda like someone is riding the front brake.

Thank guys for any info on this one.

 

[LedFTed]

have you taken the drum off, to inspect anything?

 

[jfish]

“ Pulled drums and they were found to be like new inside. The left side did have brake dust build up as compared to right but nothing to alarm me.”

 

[GirlsRideToo]

Yes, the resistance you feel is normal and should be that tight, l.e. requires both hands to turn the drum. @retro has a sticky about adjusting the brakes properly and he explains it very well.

Check your brake cable and be sure it's moving smoothly; not binding.

The manual states to keep grease on the rubber ring. Just be careful that you apply it only to the rubber and not get it in the drum. But, I don't think that has anything to do with the sound you are hearing.

Be sure you clean the inside of the drum well with brake cleaner and wipe down the pads with the cleaner.

 

[jfish]

More info

Girls ride, thanks for the info. Since posting yesterday additional research confirms what you offer. The “tight” feel of drum rotation is normal and clearly caused by the rubber seals contact with the plate. There’s some info stating you should use grease containing Teflon ( difficult to find). The folks at the local Honda dealer said they use a waterproof grease on the seal. The one question I failed to ask and still would like to know what the manual states is how much grease? The seal has several “lips or folds”. Are you suppose to just apply a single light layer of grease along the contact surface or fill one or more of the folds? Kinda thinking it’s simply a light coating along the contact surface? If anyone knows specifics on the type and amount of grease required it would be appreciated..
thanks again girlsridetoo.

PS left drum had a bit more dust present and the shoes appear glazed. Found several other post along this topic and with this condition present and no other observed defects, wear, or suspicious parts or components, brake shoe squeal is more and more looking like a suspect.

 

[jfish]

 

[GirlsRideToo]

Girls ride, thanks for the info. Since posting yesterday additional research confirms what you offer. The “tight” feel of drum rotation is normal and clearly caused by the rubber seals contact with the plate. There’s some info stating you should use grease containing Teflon ( difficult to find). The folks at the local Honda dealer said they use a waterproof grease on the seal. The one question I failed to ask and still would like to know what the manual states is how much grease? The seal has several “lips or folds”. Are you suppose to just apply a single light layer of grease along the contact surface or fill one or more of the folds? Kinda thinking it’s simply a light coating along the contact surface? If anyone knows specifics on the type and amount of grease required it would be appreciated..
thanks again girlsridetoo.

PS left drum had a bit more dust present and the shoes appear glazed. Found several other post along this topic and with this condition present and no other observed defects, wear, or suspicious parts or components, brake shoe squeal is more and more looking like a suspect.

The manual does not state an amount of grease to use. "Apply light coating grease to rubber ring/seal". I use Red N Tacky grease purchase at my local auto store. I would apply it only to the outside lip, where it contacts the brake plate. My seal is not exactly like yours. Just remember that any grease placed in the area will get warm and be "slung" into the brake area. This is why you want to keep the grease in areas where it cannot get into the brake area. Hope that makes sense. Your seal looks to be in great shape so I would not be concerned with it sealing properly. After all, you've had no leaking to this point. LOL.

There is something in your pic that concerns me. In the view where I'm looking straight on, the cylinder on the right looks like the adjustment wheel is out more than the one on the left. Also, is looks like the lower pad is sitting slightly more to the right than the left pad. See how the spring on the right looks like it has more tension on it??
If what I am seeing is correct, turn the adjustment wheel all the way in and then take your hand or a rubber mallet and gently tap that pad back to the left. You want each pad to sit in the exact same position on each cylinder. It's easy to get them slightly off center. If that pad is off-center it will cause a slight drag

The other thing I might be seeing is the upper end of the right cylinder, where the pad end sits, appears to have some sort of corrosion??? Or is that just a glare on the pic?

You can take fine sandpaper and knock the glaze off the pads.

 

[SamUK]

I used petroleum jelly on the drum rubber seals when I rebuilt my 450, still working well at the moment.. Maybe a cheap alternative to waterproof or Teflon based grease.

 

[jfish]

Girlsridetoo, thanks for taking the time to look closely and offering your observations and advise. You very well may be correct regarding one cylinder adjust out more that the other. Will take a closer look and adjust accordingly. Regarding possible corrosion I think you are maybe seeing lube that is on the threads? Like mentioned earlier this is the first time this 2002 has ever been pulled apart and the overall condition of the brakes and components are amazing. Not sure brand new ones could look as clean?

The rubber seals worked perfectly up to this point (16yrs) it is my hope after this removal and install they continue to perform. Kinda why I’m asking so many what may seem as simple aimless questions. Thanks again

Sam thanks for the vasoline suggestion. Picked up some AMSOIL synthetic today will have it back together tonight. Won’t get to try it out for a few weeks but will keep you posted if Maintenance stops the singing.

 

[LedFTed]

I used petroleum jelly on the drum rubber seals when I rebuilt my 450, still working well at the moment.. Maybe a cheap alternative to waterproof or Teflon based grease.

i have heard the petroleum jelly, may not be a good application, with rubber seals, just because its petroleum based, an can dissolve rubber. i know it causes problems with plumbing, but think, it applies elsewhere.

 

[LedFTed]

I used petroleum jelly on the drum rubber seals when I rebuilt my 450, still working well at the moment.. Maybe a cheap alternative to waterproof or Teflon based grease.

i have heard the petroleum jelly, may not be a good application, with rubber seals, just because its petroleum based, an can dissolve rubber. i know it causes problems with plumbing, but think, it applies elsewhere.

now i remember;
it involves wearing a rain coat, using petroleum jelly, an getting a unexpected child. :crying
an expert told me here :grin

 

[SamUK]

I used petroleum jelly on the drum rubber seals when I rebuilt my 450, still working well at the moment.. Maybe a cheap alternative to waterproof or Teflon based grease.

i have heard the petroleum jelly, may not be a good application, with rubber seals, just because its petroleum based, an can dissolve rubber. i know it causes problems with plumbing, but think, it applies elsewhere.

I’ve used it in many applications where grease would just be too ‘dirty’ or ‘messy’, a lot in electronic based areas. Never had an issue as yet. The petroleum content I should think is extremely minimal as we can use it on our skin.