[retro]

Good afternoon, guys. I have placed the new battery and the problem remains the same, to leave the bone to start the march I put 1st, then 2nd and to place 3rd goes to 5th, automatically makes the same fault, my cuatri is Honda rancher 420 4x4 AT ES , when I made 2 or 3 kilometers everything is normal, I have already changed the fat and I have cleaned all the chips and the fault persists.

Hola pablocuello
¿Está diciendo que cuando el motor está frío, la transmisión salta en 4ta marcha? Entonces, ¿está cambiando de la 3ª marcha a la 5ª solo cuando el motor está frío, pero una vez que el motor se ha calentado después de conducir de 3 a 5 kilómetros, la transmisión funciona bien?

Si ese es el caso, el motor tiene poco aceite. Compruebe el nivel de aceite siguiendo el procedimiento del manual.

O su motor puede beneficiarse de un cambio de aceite y filtro de motor utilizando un aceite certificado por JASO MA de viscosidad adecuado para su clima. Vea los adjuntos a continuación.

Puede utilizar https://translate.google.com para traducir del idioma inglés al idioma español. Si necesita ayuda háganoslo saber.

Hi pablocuello,
Are you saying that when the motor is cold the transmission skips 4th gear? So it is shifting from 3rd gear to 5th gear only while the motor is cold, but once the motor has warmed after driving 3-5 kilometers, the transmission works fine?

If that is the case the motor be low on oil. Check the oil level by following the procedure in the manual.

Or your motor may benefit from a motor oil and filter change using an appropriate viscosity JASO MA certified oil for your climate. See the attachments below.

You can use https://translate.google.com to translate from english language to spanish language. If you need any help let us know.

 

[simplegreen]

Guys i could be wrong, but if the 16 is the same as the 15, then the shift motor gear is oil bathed. Same as the new Rubicon. Check it out.
http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2015-honda-fourtrax-rancher-420-4x4-auto-dct-trx420fa1/o/m156909#sch908766

Hi: No there is grease on them gears.

Im following up on this as well. I was under the impression that the gears inside after the shift motor (on a 2014) shares the same oil as the motor. Is that not the case?

More importantly, will i be introducing White Lithium to my engine oil if i pack the inside of those gears (see link to photo)

 

[LedFTed]

Guys i could be wrong, but if the 16 is the same as the 15, then the shift motor gear is oil bathed. Same as the new Rubicon. Check it out.
http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2015-honda-fourtrax-rancher-420-4x4-auto-dct-trx420fa1/o/m156909#sch908766

Hi: No there is grease on them gears.

Im following up on this as well. I was under the impression that the gears inside after the shift motor (on a 2014) shares the same oil as the motor. Is that not the case?

More importantly, will i be introducing White Lithium to my engine oil if i pack the inside of those gears (see link to photo)

i didnt see a link. but the 2000es, just had grease on the gears, an it was dried up. i used the specified white lithium grease. i also used orange copper permatex gasket maker, to seal potential water leaks, around shifter motor housing.. one of the few safe places, where you can use gasket maker.
you dont want it around engine oil, or water used for cooling..
thanks Shade for confirming my suspicions. i just needed a tad of support, for what i believed.

differential, use's oil, maybe if some of the gasket maker drops off in the oil there it wont matter. ???
i gotta quit thinking, while i'm still ahead.. :smile

 

[simplegreen]

Hi: No there is grease on them gears.

Im following up on this as well. I was under the impression that the gears inside after the shift motor (on a 2014) shares the same oil as the motor. Is that not the case?

More importantly, will i be introducing White Lithium to my engine oil if i pack the inside of those gears (see link to photo)

i didnt see a link. but the 2000es, just had grease on the gears, an it was dried up. i used the specified white lithium grease. i also used orange copper permatex gasket maker, to seal potential water leaks, around shift motor housing.. one of the few safe places, where you can use gasket maker.
you dont want it around engine oil, or water used for cooling..
thanks Shade for confirming my suspicions. i just needed a tad of support, for what i believed.

differential, use's oil, maybe if some of the gasket maker drops off in the oil there it wont matter. ???
i gotta quit thinking, while i'm still ahead.. :smile

Yeah the 2014+ has the shift motor the goes into another chamber where the gears are. I didn't confirm it but it looks like those gears are covered in engine oil. Looking at the schematics attached. you can see the motor mounts to a plate, that plate mounts to front of the engine where the gears are housed.

Again, i just want to make sure im not going to introduce something that would be detrimental to a piston.

 

[LedFTed]

Im following up on this as well. I was under the impression that the gears inside after the shift motor (on a 2014) shares the same oil as the motor. Is that not the case?

More importantly, will i be introducing White Lithium to my engine oil if i pack the inside of those gears (see link to photo)

i didnt see a link. but the 2000es, just had grease on the gears, an it was dried up. i used the specified white lithium grease. i also used orange copper permatex gasket maker, to seal potential water leaks, around shifter motor housing.. one of the few safe places, where you can use gasket maker.
you dont want it around engine oil, or water used for cooling..
thanks Shade for confirming my suspicions. i just needed a tad of support, for what i believed.

differential, use's oil, maybe if some of the gasket maker drops off in the oil there it wont matter. ???
i gotta quit thinking, while i'm still ahead.. :smile

Yeah the 2014+ has the shift motor the goes into another chamber where the gears are. I didn't confirm it but it looks like those gears are covered in engine oil. Looking at the schematics attached. you can see the motor mounts to a plate, that plate mounts to front of the engine where the gears are housed.

Again, i just want to make sure im not going to introduce something that would be detrimental to pistons.

i dont blame ya a bit. even on the 2000es450, the parts look similar,
till ya get to the 3 bearings, that go to the block. check an double check.. i havent looked at the micro-fiche on mine for many years, it probably has those bearings as well.

 

[retro]

@simplegreen
The reduction gears and support bearings are separated from the motor oil by the crankcase cover on every Honda ATV ES model produced to date.

One of the main problems with Honda ES systems is that an improper grease type (and an insufficient amount) was put in them at the factory. So when you service yours clean out the original grease (clean out the support bearings too) and repack & reassemble using any NLGI #2 synthetic bearing grease. Mobil 1 is cheap and readily available in a 1 pound tub...

 

[simplegreen]

@simplegreen
The reduction gears and support bearings are separated from the motor oil by the crankcase cover on every Honda ATV ES model produced to date.

One of the main problems with Honda ES systems is that an improper grease type (and an insufficient amount) was put in them at the factory. So when you service yours clean out the original grease (clean out the support bearings too) and repack & reassemble using any NLGI #2 synthetic bearing grease. Mobil 1 is cheap and readily available in a 1 pound tub...

I'll give it a go thanks a lot

 

[MarkChamorro]

I made an account because I just wanted to say thanks to all you guys who help out.

I just bought an '00 Rancher ES knowing it had a shifting issue. Assuming it was a shift motor or angle sensor, I caved and bought it for a decent price. Now I find myself opening the front crankcase tomorrow to see if there's anything broken. But like I said, you guys are a plethora of information, and I appreciate it all! This is my first ATV so I'm completely new to this, although fairly mechanically inclined, so I'm sure I can figure this out by reading all of the threads and responses on this forum. Thanks again guys!

 

[retro]

@MarkChamorro

The ES system rarely needs any new parts but does require a one-time thorough prep. A gazillion angle sensors have been sold by Honda that didn't fix anything.

There are a couple posts beginning here outlining the preps and materials you'll need.

https://www.hondaatvforums.net/forums/builds-projects-diy/117193-creamsicle-orange-2.html#post1151201

While the front fender is off clean and dielectric grease every harness connector pair in the bike. If you need any help start a thread with all of the relevant info. And let us know how it works when you're done.

 

[ATC4ever]

Wow "Much Music Digging through the Vaults" :icon_ rofl: I had to go back to page 2 to find that :eek
What i ended up finding was that the 'new' Rubicon's shift motor shaft is in a little bit of oil, whether submerged or splattered on it, but the gears had this sticky goo I had to scrape off before applying the white Lithium grease. It made very little difference in the 2016 i had, (did it twice at that...) So with the help of a buddy of mine who is a tech at a Honda dealer, i got the ECU flashed to a 2017 i think it was. It did shift faster then, but still not like the old 2003? TRX350 4x4 i had here one time. That shifted like there was no tomorrow.

 

[LedFTed]

Im following up on this as well. I was under the impression that the gears inside after the shift motor (on a 2014) shares the same oil as the motor. Is that not the case?
More importantly, will i be introducing White Lithium to my engine oil if i pack the inside of those gears (see link to photo)

Yeah the 2014+ has the shift motor the goes into another chamber where the gears are. I didn't confirm it but it looks like those gears are covered in engine oil. Looking at the schematics attached. you can see the motor mounts to a plate, that plate mounts to front of the engine where the gears are housed.

Again, i just want to make sure im not going to introduce something that would be detrimental to a piston.

i looked at the setup on the 2000es while not exactly the same. it is so similar. i got the same bearings and the same gear set up, on the 2000es. maybe not the same gears. if it was bathed in oil, i doubt you would need grease.
make any sense?

 

[LedFTed]

@MarkChamorro

The ES system rarely needs any new parts but does require a one-time thorough prep. A gazillion angle sensors have been sold by Honda that didn't fix anything.

There are a couple posts beginning here outlining the preps and materials you'll need.

https://www.hondaatvforums.net/forums/builds-projects-diy/117193-creamsicle-orange-2.html#post1151201

While the front fender is off clean and dielectric grease every harness connector pair in the bike. If you need any help start a thread with all of the relevant info. And let us know how it works when you're done.

got 2 extra sensors. :smile

 

[retro]

Ya, the Rubicon has an automatic trans though. It was a DCT in 2016 I'm pretty sure... none of the info in this ES thread is meant to be applied to those systems.

 

[retro]

If any of you guys reading this thread are looking for AT preps info you're not gonna find it here. ES systems only.

 

[simplegreen]

Ok, well torn out the shift motor and the casing. Soon as i did the bearing on the larger (circle gear) feel to the garage floor. So the good news i know my problem.

Bad news is i think the outer casing of the bearing is still there. Any suggestions on getting it out? (picture below)

Second question. I assume while i have it tore out its best to just replace all the bearings and such. Can anyone point me to a rebuild kit for a 2014 420 Rancher ES?

 

[LedFTed]

a dremel tool, may just grind what is left of the bearing. you dont have to grind the whole part. just on one side. then it should fold in on it self. with a bit of help, and pry out. the bearing should be on any parts fiche. the outside part, of what is left of the bearing, is in a housing, and i would try to leave 98 percent of it there, if not more.
i doubt the bread trick would work on this one..

 

[simplegreen]

a dremel tool, may just grind what is left of the bearing. you dont have to grind the whole part. just on one side. then it should fold in on it self. with a bit of help, and pry out. the bearing should be on any parts fiche. the outside part, of what is left of the bearing, is in a housing, and i would try to leave 98 percent of it there, if not more.
i doubt the bread trick would work on this one..

Thats a bummer, i was hoping that wasn't the answer :sad .

Ordered new bearings, i'll pack them all once that comes in. I assume just cleaning that housing where the current bearing housing is stuck really well and tapping that new bearing in as straight and flush as possible is the ticket?

I marked the shaft and the SHIFT reduction gear to put it back on at the same place. Am i correct in my assumption that the SHAFT reduction gear can just go on at any point no specific alignment?

 

[_Wilson_]

bearing races are VERY hard steel! I don't know if a drimmel will do the job or not ?? I've had equipment bearings explode before (while ) pulling them, also a tip, on installing , drop the replacement in the deep freezer right up until your ready to install um, this one.... I'd like to hear what @retro, and @fishfiles think.

 

[fishfiles]

Dremel with a carbide tip will cut a slice in the race ---------- a blind bearing puller may get it out , there isn't a lot to grab there

 

[LedFTed]

i wasnt very clear on the housing part. just dont a lot of the bearing housing out when you use the dremal, to get the bearing shell out.
whether bread will work is dependent on how strong the aluminum is. i'd hate to see ya poke a hole in the case.
i doubt you could do anything bearing wise till the old shell comes out. maybe someone here has a better idea..
i'm i seeing metal shavings, about the thread holes?
if you can get get a slice out of the shell, ya might get by with a tiny sacrifice of housing, to knock the shell inwards..