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I wouldn't run it with an exhaust leak.....
I'm pretty sure running lean will cause the exhaust to get hotter and glow cherry red, not rich.

I had a 220 bayou one time that, when running, the exhaust would get red hot. Took the carb apart and ethanol gas had eaten away the aluminum housing around the main jet allowing more fuel to flow.

What happens is that there is more fuel than can be burned in the amount of time it has in the cylinder, so it is still trying to burn as it is going out of the exhaust valve. Then you have fire in your exhaust that should normally only have hot gasses.

Lean condition will make the fire in the cylinder burn hotter.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
So you never mentioned the header pipe on that pic , did you notice that it is cherry red most likely from the carb being too rich
I swear to you that photo was not there when I responded to your post! I call hiccup on the server.

No, no, no, I've never noticed any degree of redness to the pipe near the head. Now, if it is happening farther back on the pipe, nearer the exhaust, I guess I would not see it underneath the shields. I think if it got THAT hot my leg would have known it.... LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
Hey Girls ride too, we used to call those long reach Hemostats "roach clips". lol..........that was many years ago tho.
Being retired from the medical profession they are still hemostats to me. :)

I wouldn't run it with an exhaust leak.....
I'm pretty sure running lean will cause the exhaust to get hotter and glow cherry red, not rich.
I had a 220 bayou one time that, when running, the exhaust would get red hot. Took the carb apart and ethanol gas had eaten away the aluminum housing around the main jet allowing more fuel to flow.

What happens is that there is more fuel than can be burned in the amount of time it has in the cylinder, so it is still trying to burn as it is going out of the exhaust valve. Then you have fire in your exhaust that should normally only have hot gasses.

Lean condition will make the fire in the cylinder burn hotter.
So you never mentioned the header pipe on that pic , did you notice that it is cherry red most likely from the carb being too rich
I'm sorry to correct you Fish but too rich will not cause an engine to overheat. A perfectly jetted engine will overheat under tough conditions.........especially an air cooled engine. Is is not uncommon to see high performance four strokes to glow red , especially at night. Now a lean engine will over heat exponentially as it get leaner. Think about a torch........more oxygen more heat until it goes out...........less oxygen, it gets cooler. I respect your opinions Fish but I was compelled to correct this because it is an important topic. We're still friends right? lol
Great explanations but now my head is spinning! My spark plug indicates it's running rich - black and sooty, really bad.

I have read that Honda sets these quads to run lean related to emission controls. So, I'm not sure why mine is running rich.

It has EFI so I'm lost about any cleaning anything other than the fuel injector. But, it cranks right up and runs great.

Based upon what all of you said about the engine running lean vs. rich and the fact my pipe is not getting red hot I'm confused as to why the plastic melted.

The melted plastic occurred in the Summer and right after that I had my mechanic change the radiation fluid (again) and install a new thermostat even though the light on my display NEVER came on. I was just being paranoid, I guess. Also, he readjusted the values just because he found they were not adjusted properly by my former mechanic. The overheating MAY be resolved. I have ridden very very little since this work was done. When I found the exhaust leak I assumed this was the problem all along, not the radiator or thermostat.

The bracket the seat sits on is behind the spark plug, near the rear of the engine. I'm sure you know this. LOL So, where can the heat be coming from in this area if it's not a red hot part of the exhaust??
 

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I wouldn't run it with an exhaust leak.....
I'm pretty sure running lean will cause the exhaust to get hotter and glow cherry red, not rich.

I had a 220 bayou one time that, when running, the exhaust would get red hot. Took the carb apart and ethanol gas had eaten away the aluminum housing around the main jet allowing more fuel to flow.

What happens is that there is more fuel than can be burned in the amount of time it has in the cylinder, so it is still trying to burn as it is going out of the exhaust valve. Then you have fire in your exhaust that should normally only have hot gasses.

Lean condition will make the fire in the cylinder burn hotter.
The fire has been extinguished by the time the engine turns over one full revolution to enter the exhaust stroke. Rich will never, ever, ever make an engine run hotter than normal. Perhaps the ethanol slightly restricted the jets causing a lean condition. I've owned my shop for over 35 years now so I know a little about ethanol and carbs. I hope this discussion helps tho.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
The exhaust leak is more than enough to explain the melted plastic.
Thank you so very much. That's all I need to know!! Now I can put my new seat back on and enjoy it.

I'll be riding next week at night and I don't like things going bad when I'm alone and deep in the woods at 2:00 a.m. LOL
Do I need to address the running rich issue in any way??
 

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Discussion Starter #29
try 1/4 - 1/2 a turn on the air mix adjustment screw , then check your plug again
Thiis is my 2014 Rancher 420FM, Fish, not the little 1997 Recon.

I think the screw you are referring to on the Rancher is painted white and the manual strictly forbids me from touching it. I'll leave it alone. :)
 

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glad ya found the problem an got him fixed??:smile i remember the hemostats, from my times. they wernt for surgery. lols
you could clamp paper together, if ya didnt have a paper clip
 

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[quote
Have friends that used to come to our place for hog hunting. Had catahoulas. Great dogs.

I went with them once and it was way too brutal for me to watch. Not because of the hogs but seeing the dogs get injured or almost injured was not my idea of fun. And those dog were covered in kevlar. It is an extremely dangerous way to hunt if you don't know what you're doing. So, as you warned me about the hot muffler, I'm warning you to be careful. An injured bore is a dangerous animal to approach.
I have another friend that is into hog dogs big time , he does 90% of his own vet work , he has one of them staple guns and when the cuts are too much for it , he stitched them up , I think I am a little squeamish to do that ----- his operation is first class , really nice kennels , concreted with slopes to a central drain system that goes into a septic tank , keeping them hosed down is easy ---- his boat is the same aluminum flat as mine , 23 x 8 commercial Tim's Marine , it is a barge , he has a landing ramp on the bow and the boat is decked over and can put two atvs on the boat and can load and unload them onto the bank , a Russian bear dog , which he tells me is suppose to be the best smeller , sits on the bow as he rides the bank on the bayous , when the dog alerts , they launch the pack and bikes , all the dogs wear GPS collars that lite up on the GPS screen on his bike , so he knows where they are at all the time , all the dogs wear shock collars so he can control them ----
 

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The exhaust leak is more than enough to explain the melted plastic.
Thank you so very much. That's all I need to know!! Now I can put my new seat back on and enjoy it.

I'll be riding next week at night and I don't like things going bad when I'm alone and deep in the woods at 2:00 a.m. LOL
Do I need to address the running rich issue in any way??
It shouldn't be black and sooty. I would buy two new plugs immediately. I'd install one right now and carry the other with me on my midnight ride. Lube the threads with copper anti seize and just snug it down. Perhaps your air filter or snorkel is restricting the air flow. I've owned three 420's. Two like yours (yours is under 2014 right?, cant remember) and one 2014 which is my current ride. The only real difference in the engines is the 2014 and up has an o2 sensor. The only times my 420 puffed black smoke out the exhaust was when me and some friends were racing each other at high altitude in Silverton Colorado a few years back. They were hitting the rev limiter and didn't know it.........that was the cause of the black sooty smoke. You aren't regularly hitting the rev limiter are you?.........I went back and re read some posts, I see you have a 2014. That shouldn't make any difference with my suggestions. I'm very proud of you doing your own work and going out on a ride by yourself. I'm not sure I'd even do that. I've gotten myself into some sticking situations before that required some friends helping me. LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I have another friend that is into hog dogs big time , he does 90% of his own vet work , he has one of them staple guns and when the cuts are too much for it , he stitched them up , I think I am a little squeamish to do that ----- his operation is first class , really nice kennels , concreted with slopes to a central drain system that goes into a septic tank , keeping them hosed down is easy ---- his boat is the same aluminum flat as mine , 23 x 8 commercial Tim's Marine , it is a barge , he has a landing ramp on the bow and the boat is decked over and can put two atvs on the boat and can load and unload them onto the bank , a Russian bear dog , which he tells me is suppose to be the best smeller , sits on the bow as he rides the bank on the bayous , when the dog alerts , they launch the pack and bikes , all the dogs wear GPS collars that lite up on the GPS screen on his bike , so he knows where they are at all the time , all the dogs wear shock collars so he can control them ----
Nice setup. I'd love to see that, the boat I mean. Yes, I watched by friend suture one of his catch dogs after it was stuck and thrown about 10 feet by a bore. As I said, too brutal for me. I'll be anxious to hear your opinion after your trip. LOL

YES, the Rancher is fuel injected.
 

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Discussion Starter #35 (Edited)
The exhaust leak is more than enough to explain the melted plastic.
Thank you so very much. That's all I need to know!! Now I can put my new seat back on and enjoy it.

I'll be riding next week at night and I don't like things going bad when I'm alone and deep in the woods at 2:00 a.m. LOL
Do I need to address the running rich issue in any way??
It shouldn't be black and sooty. I would buy two new plugs immediately. I'd install one right now and carry the other with me on my midnight ride. Lube the threads with copper anti seize and just snug it down. Perhaps your air filter or snorkel is restricting the air flow. I've owned three 420's. Two like yours (yours is under 2014 right?, cant remember) and one 2014 which is my current ride. The only real difference in the engines is the 2014 and up has an o2 sensor. The only times my 420 puffed black smoke out the exhaust was when me and some friends were racing each other at high altitude in Silverton Colorado a few years back. They were hitting the rev limiter and didn't know it.........that was the cause of the black sooty smoke. You aren't regularly hitting the rev limiter are you?.........I went back and re read some posts, I see you have a 2014. That shouldn't make any difference with my suggestions. I'm very proud of you doing your own work and going out on a ride by yourself. I'm not sure I'd even do that. I've gotten myself into some sticking situations before that required some friends helping me. LOL
Actually, I ordered 2 new KLN plugs the other day and put one in it and have the second in my backpack. The plug is the one recommended in the manual. The old one I took out was the correct plug, too. I don't have any copper anti-seize, only the plain anti-seize, but will buy some while I'm out today.
You mentioned the air filter. My first mechanic who ripped me off for $700 put the filter in. It has no brand name on it that I can find. I took it out a month or so ago, cleaned it, oiled it and reinstalled. Maybe it's a cheap filter and doesn't allow the optimal air flow?? I think I'll replace it with OEM filter to be on the safe side.
Hitting the rev limiter? Me??? Not hardly. LOL. Where I used to ride that might be issue. Where I ride (hunt) now is mostly hills and swamp. At least I have good cell phone coverage where I hunt. :)

I suspect this quad was sunk by the PO. Of course, he denied it. If not sunk, it was definitely ridden in lots of mud and not well maintained.
He sold it because, at age 17, he found himself with a wife and new baby and moved from country life to a city apartment.
So, there could be problems lurking that I am unaware of. Old mechanic rebuilt the top end because it was blowing white smoke. I knew what the smoke meant but the price of the quad was so low that I had room for repairs. My new mechanic did use a borescope and inspected top of the engine and readjusted the values, as i said. All fluids have been changed 2-3 times now. Oil never appeared to have any shavings.
For now, it cranks right up and runs great. I guess I'll just wait and see if anything goes wrong. It's been a fun project that is totally out of my comfort zone. :)
 

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I wouldn't run it with an exhaust leak.....
I'm pretty sure running lean will cause the exhaust to get hotter and glow cherry red, not rich.

I had a 220 bayou one time that, when running, the exhaust would get red hot. Took the carb apart and ethanol gas had eaten away the aluminum housing around the main jet allowing more fuel to flow.

What happens is that there is more fuel than can be burned in the amount of time it has in the cylinder, so it is still trying to burn as it is going out of the exhaust valve. Then you have fire in your exhaust that should normally only have hot gasses.

Lean condition will make the fire in the cylinder burn hotter.
The fire has been extinguished by the time the engine turns over one full revolution to enter the exhaust stroke. Rich will never, ever, ever make an engine run hotter than normal. Perhaps the ethanol slightly restricted the jets causing a lean condition. I've owned my shop for over 35 years now so I know a little about ethanol and carbs. I hope this discussion helps tho.
I agree that rich will not make the engine run hotter. In the exhaust pipe however is a different story... First example that comes to mind is a backfire (afterfire, technically). Path below to YT explanation of afterfire (backfire). Running rich in conjunction with an exhaust leak (point of oxygen influx and afterfire ignition) could cause the exhaust to run hotter than normal.

 

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Permatex, has orange copper, gasket maker. i used it on my exhaust ports on the 55 chevy truck. it held. anti-seize is for bolts you dont want to get stuck, because of high temperatures, or metal reactions. aluminum, and iron based bolts arent always friendly. both, orange copper gasket maker, and anti-seize are at any auto store. just not the same thing. red gasket maker, might even be better. i cant remember the temperature range.
i hope i did not mislead you.
can a restricted exhaust, cause excess heat?
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Hey Girls ride too, we used to call those long reach Hemostats "roach clips". lol..........that was many years ago tho.
You mean we don't call them that anymore? What do we call them now? Ha Ha.
Maybe MC will answer. I have no idea. No recreational drugs here. I'm a boring person. LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #40
I have completed my 2014 Rancher 420FM project. I will post another thread with pics.

As part of the melting plastic issue, I did replace the O2 sensor. Also, cleared the exhaust per the manual. A fair amount of black stuff fell out when I took the bolt out.
Thinking about engine overheating, I removed the radiator and cleaned it. I had cleaned it in place several times during the project and thought it was clean. Wow, was I wrong. Attached is a pic of what the radiator looked like as it was being cleaned with Nu Bright coil cleaner. You can see the red mud being foamed away. I followed the instructions and neutralized the radiator really well after the cleaning. There's not a trace of anything that could restrict air flow. LOL
 

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