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Gentlemen,

Quick question that I believe is not going to have a quick/easy response...

Would I be better off with Ethanol Free fuel or stabilized fuel with ethanol in the long run? There are a few gas stations in our area that offer Ethanol Free fuel, but they are a little out of the way. I do have stabilizer and run stabilized premium fuel in all of my "small engines" like: the generator, the boat motor, etc.

Would I be better off with going out of my way to get ethanol free or would stabilized premium (with ethanol) be just as good?

I realize we're going to get into the discussion of octane as premium is 93(+) and regular ethanol free is 87(+), but I'm just really worried about the effects of ethanol in the long run. I don't mind going out of my way and keeping 10 gallons or so of ethanol free on the shelf, I just want to do what's best for the engine/carb/motor.

I'm absolutely open to suggestion- I just want to do what is best.

Thank You,

-Ryan
 

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Gentlemen,

Quick question that I believe is not going to have a quick/easy response...

Would I be better off with Ethanol Free fuel or stabilized fuel with ethanol in the long run? There are a few gas stations in our area that offer Ethanol Free fuel, but they are a little out of the way. I do have stabilizer and run stabilized premium fuel in all of my "small engines" like: the generator, the boat motor, etc.

Would I be better off with going out of my way to get ethanol free or would stabilized premium (with ethanol) be just as good?

I realize we're going to get into the discussion of octane as premium is 93(+) and regular ethanol free is 87(+), but I'm just really worried about the effects of ethanol in the long run. I don't mind going out of my way and keeping 10 gallons or so of ethanol free on the shelf, I just want to do what's best for the engine/carb/motor.

I'm absolutely open to suggestion- I just want to do what is best.

Thank You,

-Ryan
Ethanol-free fuel is the way to go always. Ethanol fuel even with stable loses a point to a point 1/2 of octane per month. Ethanol fuel is literally alcohol in gasoline. if you're burning it and burning it quickly will be no issue with ethanol fuel. The problem with ethanol fuel has always been storage. Alcohol absorbs water. Ethanol is alcohol. Humidity is water.

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Discussion Starter #3
Gentlemen,

Quick question that I believe is not going to have a quick/easy response...

Would I be better off with Ethanol Free fuel or stabilized fuel with ethanol in the long run? There are a few gas stations in our area that offer Ethanol Free fuel, but they are a little out of the way. I do have stabilizer and run stabilized premium fuel in all of my "small engines" like: the generator, the boat motor, etc.

Would I be better off with going out of my way to get ethanol free or would stabilized premium (with ethanol) be just as good?

I realize we're going to get into the discussion of octane as premium is 93(+) and regular ethanol free is 87(+), but I'm just really worried about the effects of ethanol in the long run. I don't mind going out of my way and keeping 10 gallons or so of ethanol free on the shelf, I just want to do what's best for the engine/carb/motor.

I'm absolutely open to suggestion- I just want to do what is best.

Thank You,

-Ryan
Ethanol-free fuel is the way to go always. Ethanol fuel even with stable loses a point to a point 1/2 of octane per month. Ethanol fuel is literally alcohol in gasoline. if you're burning it and burning it quickly will be no issue with ethanol fuel. The problem with ethanol fuel has always been storage. Alcohol absorbs water. Ethanol is alcohol. Humidity is water.

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P.S. I live in Houston, where our humidity is generally around 80-90% on a good day, and I've had bare metal rust over night here, so ethanol free is how I'll go for sure. I don't ride that ATV every day so I wanted to check.

Also, is there any need to put some kind of stabilizer in ethanol free fuel?
 

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just my .02's worth, if your going to run whatever you have ethanol fuel in quickly/daily use ?, then it makes no difference what you do or buy. yes, stabil does work, but its not the cure, it only slows down the time it takes for fuel to go bad. the best answer I can give ya, is when your not going to be using the fuel in your atv/motorcycle/lawn mower..what ever ?, drain the fuel out of the tank, drain the fuel from the carb if you know your not going to be using it any time soon ?!. I use stabil in my motorcycle tank, topped off tank during the winter months, and I make sure all my carbs are drained from any fuel. yes, ethanol free fuel is best, but why pay for a fuel that you can just save money if you take measures to keep lower fuel from giving you trouble..right ?. personally ?, I think its a marketing scam..lol.
 

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just my .02's worth, if your going to run whatever you have ethanol fuel in quickly/daily use ?, then it makes no difference what you do or buy. yes, stabil does work, but its not the cure, it only slows down the time it takes for fuel to go bad. the best answer I can give ya, is when your not going to be using the fuel in your atv/motorcycle/lawn mower..what ever ?, drain the fuel out of the tank, drain the fuel from the carb if you know your not going to be using it any time soon ?!. I use stabil in my motorcycle tank, topped off tank during the winter months, and I make sure all my carbs are drained from any fuel. yes, ethanol free fuel is best, but why pay for a fuel that you can just save money if you take measures to keep lower fuel from giving you trouble..right ?. personally ?, I think its a marketing scam..lol.
I'll tell you why it's not a marketing scam. I have been in the business of repairing machines for 40 years now. what's ethanol fuels became the norm carb cleaning gum carb replacement escalated, and this is no exaggeration, a thousand percent! Country beliefs table does not work. Sometimes you get lucky and depending on when you buy your last bit of fuel whether you're getting winter grade or summer grade of fuel, stable will help slow the evaporation process. The biggest problem I've seen with draining carburetors dry ,that had ethanol fuel in them, is needles sticking when you turn the fuel on next season. The reason why recreational fuel is around is for the Boating industry. Again, not a marketing scam. And as a stabilizer I use Sea Foam, never stabil. As far as this issue goes there is almost as many opinions as there are humans on Earth. My opinion is based on the actual repairs that we have seen since ethanol fuels have showed up. What a lot of Young Bucks don't know is stabil used to guarantee your machine would start the next year. They don't do that anymore! Stable will work much better with non-oxygenated fuel because that's what stable was designed to be used in. May the gas God's look upon you with love... Ride safe and ride happy

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just my .02's worth, if your going to run whatever you have ethanol fuel in quickly/daily use ?, then it makes no difference what you do or buy. yes, stabil does work, but its not the cure, it only slows down the time it takes for fuel to go bad. the best answer I can give ya, is when your not going to be using the fuel in your atv/motorcycle/lawn mower..what ever ?, drain the fuel out of the tank, drain the fuel from the carb if you know your not going to be using it any time soon ?!. I use stabil in my motorcycle tank, topped off tank during the winter months, and I make sure all my carbs are drained from any fuel. yes, ethanol free fuel is best, but why pay for a fuel that you can just save money if you take measures to keep lower fuel from giving you trouble..right ?. personally ?, I think its a marketing scam..lol.
I'll tell you why it's not a marketing scam. I have been in the business of repairing machines for 40 years now. Since ethanol fuels became the norm carb cleaning and carb replacement escalated, and this is no exaggeration, a thousand percent! Contrary to beliefs, Stabil does not work very well with alcoholed fuels. Sometimes you get lucky and depending on when you buy your last bit of fuel whether you're getting winter grade or summer grade of fuel, Stabil will help slow the evaporation process. The biggest problem I've seen with draining carburetors dry ,that had ethanol fuel in them, is needles sticking when you turn the fuel on next season. That's one of the reasons I use SeaFoam, they add libricity modifiers. The reason why recreational fuel is around is for the Boating industry. Again, not a marketing scam. And as a stabilizer I use SeaFoam, never stabil. As far as this issue goes there is almost as many opinions as there are humans on Earth. My opinion is based on the actual repairs that we have seen since ethanol fuels have showed up. What a lot of Young Bucks don't know is stabil used to guarantee your machine would start the next year. They don't do that anymore! Stable will work much better with non-oxygenated fuel because that's what stable was designed to be used in. May the gas God's look upon you with love... Ride safe and ride happy

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I use fuel stabilizer in my quad, mower, chainsaw, weed eater, pressure washer. I've NEVER had any issues. Every motor always fires up in the spring. I do use Seafoam in the spring when I fire them up.

IF I have a choice, I will go with ethanal free fuel, but around my area, I'm not sure you can even find a gas station with out it!
 

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I agree 100% ethanol free if possible its worth a little drive IMO, the amount of time it takes to drain tank./carbs, I can spend driving, and NOTHING wrong with treating NON ethanol free fuel with a stabilizer if stored a LONG amount of time, UP to 12 months or so?

been playing with snowmobiles a Long time,6-8 months a yr of NO use
I do NOT drain tanks or carbs
I have seen many carbs seals and gaskets and such crack and go dry NOT having fuel in them over the yrs
NOT having a fuel tank FULL, will leave space for condensation to form over temp changes!

and most all add stabilizer to fill a tank all the way up!(most fuel stations on snowmobile trails ONLY sell or most all offer ethanol free fuel, due to so many issues with the storage side of sleds and well, its better fuel period IMO! so even with NON ethanol fuel , we still treat, ALL fuel looses octane over time, its what it does)


what I and most snowmobilers do with carb's is, just start the sleds up once a month or so and let heat up to normal temp, and then shut them down again?

WORKS, and can be WORK in itself, but you tend to NOT have issue's come snow time
some folks cannot do this I get it
but treating either fuel if its going to sit any time is the best route IMO!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I agree 100% ethanol free if possible its worth a little drive IMO, the amount of time it takes to drain tank./carbs, I can spend driving, and NOTHING wrong with treating NON ethanol free fuel with a stabilizer if stored a LONG amount of time, UP to 12 months or so?

been playing with snowmobiles a Long time,6-8 months a yr of NO use
I do NOT drain tanks or carbs
I have seen many carbs seals and gaskets and such crack and go dry NOT having fuel in them over the yrs
NOT having a fuel tank FULL, will leave space for condensation to form over temp changes!

and most all add stabilizer to fill a tank all the way up!(most fuel stations on snowmobile trails ONLY sell or most all offer ethanol free fuel, due to so many issues with the storage side of sleds and well, its better fuel period IMO! so even with NON ethanol fuel , we still treat, ALL fuel looses octane over time, its what it does)


what I and most snowmobilers do with carb's is, just start the sleds up once a month or so and let heat up to normal temp, and then shut them down again?

WORKS, and can be WORK in itself, but you tend to NOT have issue's come snow time
some folks cannot do this I get it
but treating either fuel if its going to sit any time is the best route IMO!
Thanks @mrbb

I am crazy on maintenance, so every 3-4 weeks I start/run every single engine I have- chainsaw, boat, generator, etc. so there is no issue with the work there.

I think I'll go get some ethanol free this weekend and start running that in all my "small stuff." I'll add stabilizer to it as well.

I'll burn the regular (with ethanol) until it's gone and then run ethanol free exclusively from now on. Not hard to get, just a little more driving- but well worth it in the long run as it looks on here.
 

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I sure am grateful that I'm showing up late to an ethanol scam argument this time. :) Thanks dalekoven, I wouldn't have been anywhere near as soft on 'em as you were!
 

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Under no circumstances will I run ethanol fuel in my lawn equipment, boat engine or my atv. I’ve seen first hand what it does to gaskets, electrical lines and just about anything else that’s not metal. I go out of my way to get ethanol free fuel, then stabilize it and run Yamaha Ring Free in my tanks. Overkill possibly but the extra money I spend on the products is better than the money that it costs to repair damage from ethanol based fuel.


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I don't want to start a fuel war or anything, but please explain to me how my 2000 Silverado can run this cheap fuel year long, with no problems ?..and yet..it ruins atvs, motorcycles, lawn mowers..and anything that runs with it ?. again..not trying to start a war here..just would like some answers is all :).
 

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Because fuel doesn’t last 30 days or longer in your truck so it is used before it starts to break down


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Because fuel doesn’t last 30 days or longer in your truck so it is used before it starts to break down. If I ran my boat, atv or lawn equipment daily, I wouldn’t have a problem running ethanol fuel through them

SORRY FOR THE REPOST

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Not sure how "on topic" this is but I used to drive 70+ miles to work one way when I lived on the Big Island. 700 miles every week.
Gas being so expensive ($4-5 per gallon) I got a motorcycle which got 50-60 MPG as opposed to my truck which got 20. You can buy ethanol free gas there in 89 octane only. 87 and 93 both contain ethanol. As it happened the 89 ethanol free was almost dead on 10% more expensive than 87 with ethanol. Also to be noted the ethanol percentage in the gas was 10%. I ran many tanks filling up at the exact same time and amount of gas over and over. For example, I'd run 10 tanks of 87 and then 10 tanks of 89 ethanol free calculating my MPG on every tank.
This was all at sea level with similar temps. The only true variants were how strong the wind was and the 2% octane difference. (I threw out really windy days as this really cut down the MPG)
What I found with remarkable consistency was that when I ran the ethanol fuel there was an 8-10% lower MPG average. With ethanol free 89 I would get 58-64 MPG and when I used ethanol it would immediately drop to the low 50's.
I repeated these findings over and over and my conclusion was ethanol was worthless crap that negated the fuels value in direct proportion to the percentage it was utilized. Much like a drug dealer stepping on his product to maximize his profits. Ethanol IMO is nothing more than a scam that has also raised the price of food because corn is not in abundance like it once was. From Fritos to corn-fed pork it all went up in price. Suckage. lol
 

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I don't have access to ethanol free near me, even if I get premium 93 octane Mobil. Still is an ethanol blend. I add StarTron to the gas for my 4-stroke toys, and for my 2-stroke Stihl tools (string trimmer/chainsaw/leaf blower) I buy the premix stuff in a can that is ethanol free. It's pricey but easier than mixing and having it go bad

Rob
 

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Not sure how "on topic" this is but I used to drive 70+ miles to work one way when I lived on the Big Island. 700 miles every week.
Gas being so expensive ($4-5 per gallon) I got a motorcycle which got 50-60 MPG as opposed to my truck which got 20. You can buy ethanol free gas there in 89 octane only. 87 and 93 both contain ethanol. As it happened the 89 ethanol free was almost dead on 10% more expensive than 87 with ethanol. Also to be noted the ethanol percentage in the gas was 10%. I ran many tanks filling up at the exact same time and amount of gas over and over. For example, I'd run 10 tanks of 87 and then 10 tanks of 89 ethanol free calculating my MPG on every tank.
This was all at sea level with similar temps. The only true variants were how strong the wind was and the 2% octane difference. (I threw out really windy days as this really cut down the MPG)
What I found with remarkable consistency was that when I ran the ethanol fuel there was an 8-10% lower MPG average. With ethanol free 89 I would get 58-64 MPG and when I used ethanol it would immediately drop to the low 50's.
I repeated these findings over and over and my conclusion was ethanol was worthless crap that negated the fuels value in direct proportion to the percentage it was utilized. Much like a drug dealer stepping on his product to maximize his profits. Ethanol IMO is nothing more than a scam that has also raised the price of food because corn is not in abundance like it once was. From Fritos to corn-fed pork it all went up in price. Suckage. lol
The ethanol fuel is not a scam! It was designed to free up a non - replenishing resource...oil. It also has a cleaner burning, less emissions property. GM bases there engine horse power ratings on E85 fuel because it is a larger amount of alcohol and produces more horsepower. It also grossly reduces fuel mileage. Well known fact. Ethanol fuels were not designed for our comfort/pleasure. They were designed to cut emissions and oil dependency. Think about it. 10% of the fuel is corn alcohols. Every 10gals of fuel is 1 gallon of alcohol. Each 42 gallon barrel of oil produces 20 gallons of gasoline and about 11 gallons of low sulphur fuel oil. Add 10% to the gasoline , that now makes it 22 gallons of fuel. America, on average, burns 372 MILLION gallons of fuel a day! Thats over 400 million barrels of oil...a day!! If my math is correct, ethanol fuel saves 93 million barrels of oil a day! And also saves the hydrocarbon waste associated with 33,945,000,000 barrels of oil A YEAR! Still think it's a scam?

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Not sure how "on topic" this is but I used to drive 70+ miles to work one way when I lived on the Big Island. 700 miles every week.
Gas being so expensive ($4-5 per gallon) I got a motorcycle which got 50-60 MPG as opposed to my truck which got 20. You can buy ethanol free gas there in 89 octane only. 87 and 93 both contain ethanol. As it happened the 89 ethanol free was almost dead on 10% more expensive than 87 with ethanol. Also to be noted the ethanol percentage in the gas was 10%. I ran many tanks filling up at the exact same time and amount of gas over and over. For example, I'd run 10 tanks of 87 and then 10 tanks of 89 ethanol free calculating my MPG on every tank.
This was all at sea level with similar temps. The only true variants were how strong the wind was and the 2% octane difference. (I threw out really windy days as this really cut down the MPG)
What I found with remarkable consistency was that when I ran the ethanol fuel there was an 8-10% lower MPG average. With ethanol free 89 I would get 58-64 MPG and when I used ethanol it would immediately drop to the low 50's.
I repeated these findings over and over and my conclusion was ethanol was worthless crap that negated the fuels value in direct proportion to the percentage it was utilized. Much like a drug dealer stepping on his product to maximize his profits. Ethanol IMO is nothing more than a scam that has also raised the price of food because corn is not in abundance like it once was. From Fritos to corn-fed pork it all went up in price. Suckage. lol
This is what I found as well. I get better MPG running straight gas, but it costs more. The end result is a wash. My per mile cost is the same whether I'm running E10 or ethanol free.

I run E10 in my daily driver, 94 Accord. I run ethanol free in EVERYTHING else.

To answer shadetree's question on his truck, newer fuel injected vehicles were designed to run ethanol gas. Fuel injection handles ethanol gas better as well. My buddy's Rincon fires right off after sitting with E10 in it for months, BUT if you let it sit in an EFI Honda for any length of time there's a good chance your fuel pump will get gummed up and have to be replaced.

Think about small engine jets versus a Jeep of Truck jet. A chainsaw might not start after a month of E10. A four wheeler after 3 months. A truck will probably still start after a year, but run like crap.

Of course, all of this also depends on the amount of gas in the tank, temperature swings, and moisture in the air in any given area.

Safest bet is to run ethanol free AND Stabil in anything that's not going to be used much. I did this for awhile, but I've been going through my gas stores fast enough that I quit using the Stabil and just run ethanol free gas. I neglected to drain my weedeater, two riding mowers, Husky XP saw, and hedge trimmers at the end of last summer. ALL of them fired right up this spring without so much as a hiccup. ALL had ethanol free gas in them with no Stabil. My 06 Foreman has been sitting in the yard since last March (2016). It fired right up, ethanol free gas with no stabil.



Not sure how "on topic" this is but I used to drive 70+ miles to work one way when I lived on the Big Island. 700 miles every week.
Gas being so expensive ($4-5 per gallon) I got a motorcycle which got 50-60 MPG as opposed to my truck which got 20. You can buy ethanol free gas there in 89 octane only. 87 and 93 both contain ethanol. As it happened the 89 ethanol free was almost dead on 10% more expensive than 87 with ethanol. Also to be noted the ethanol percentage in the gas was 10%. I ran many tanks filling up at the exact same time and amount of gas over and over. For example, I'd run 10 tanks of 87 and then 10 tanks of 89 ethanol free calculating my MPG on every tank.
This was all at sea level with similar temps. The only true variants were how strong the wind was and the 2% octane difference. (I threw out really windy days as this really cut down the MPG)
What I found with remarkable consistency was that when I ran the ethanol fuel there was an 8-10% lower MPG average. With ethanol free 89 I would get 58-64 MPG and when I used ethanol it would immediately drop to the low 50's.
I repeated these findings over and over and my conclusion was ethanol was worthless crap that negated the fuels value in direct proportion to the percentage it was utilized. Much like a drug dealer stepping on his product to maximize his profits. Ethanol IMO is nothing more than a scam that has also raised the price of food because corn is not in abundance like it once was. From Fritos to corn-fed pork it all went up in price. Suckage. lol
The ethanol fuel is not a scam! It was designed to free up a non - replenishing resource...oil. It also has a cleaner burning, less emissions property. GM bases there engine horse power ratings on E85 fuel because it is a larger amount of alcohol and produces more horsepower. It also grossly reduces fuel mileage. Well known fact. Ethanol fuels were not designed for our comfort/pleasure. They were designed to cut emissions and oil dependency. Think about it. 10% of the fuel is corn alcohols. Every 10gals of fuel is 1 gallon of alcohol. Each 42 gallon barrel of oil produces 20 gallons of gasoline and about 11 gallons of low sulphur fuel oil. Add 10% to the gasoline , that now makes it 22 gallons of fuel. America, on average, burns 372 MILLION gallons of fuel a day! Thats over 400 million barrels of oil...a day!! If my math is correct, ethanol fuel saves 93 million barrels of oil a day! And also saves the hydrocarbon waste associated with 33,945,000,000 barrels of oil A YEAR! Still think it's a scam?

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It is a scam.

You don't take into consideration the energy required to grow the crops and convert them to ethanol. The equipment working the ground, planting, irrigation, harvesting ALL require energy, and all of that energy combined with the lower BTU's of ethanol does NOT equal a savings of energy. Quite the opposite.

So yes, it's a total scam, funded by our tax dollars in the form of corn subsidies, and meant to buy votes and line the pockets of the political elite.

http://hubbert.mines.edu/news/Pimentel_98-2.pdf
 

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"The total energy input to produce one
gallon of ethanol is 129,600 BTU. However, one gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only
76,000 BTU. Thus, a net energy loss of 53,600 BTU occurs for each gallon of ethanol produced.
Put another way, about 71% more energy is required to produce a gallon of ethanol than the
energy that is contained in a gallon of ethanol"

SCAM
 
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