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Hey Retro! You mentioned wiring. I found this metal box in my garage and have no idea what it's for. It belonged to my father so it's very old. The outside of the box is labeled Appleton Wires. There are three sizes of tiny copper wire. Is this something you could use for one of your mad hatter projects? LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #62
Those spools look like coated copper magnet wire? Was your father into rewinding transformers, or building/fixing his own electronic stuff? I imagine that he may have... due to necessity or a hobby...

I don't need them, thanks for offering though!
 

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Those spools look like coated copper magnet wire? Was your father into rewinding transformers, or building/fixing his own electronic stuff? I imagine that he may have... due to necessity or a hobby...

I don't need them, thanks for offering though!
You are most welcome. Thanks for telling me what the wire is used for. I understand why you can't use it. I remember an old WWII era radio he worked on but can't think of anything else. He died when I was 18 years old.
Again, thank you for solving a 40+ year old mystery.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
That wire is still very useful GRT. Nowadays that might be expensive wire over the counter.

Your post setoff an idea storm in my brain though, as my mind wandered away. Hopefully we may have solved a pattern, shape and method problem/question that I've been trying to figure out for a few years now. My brain is weird and unpredictable like that... nevermind... I'll have an answer in a couple months whether this contraption works or not. I bought the stepper motor for building this idea/project 3 years ago in giddy anticipation. Thanks for sharing! :)
 

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Alright dad-gumitt, I forgot all about sourcing some smaller gauge wire and 5-pin connectors, so I ended up shopping rather than sleeping tonight. I ended up choosing 24 gauge wire for the office unit harness. Also found a good deal on 20 feet of black polyolefin shrink tubing to encase the harnesses in. Hopefully, everything we'll need to complete this is on order now.

May as well show ya the enclosures due to arrive Friday... The best office enclosure candidate I could find measures 2.74" long x 1.97" high x .83" thick. It has a 0.020" deep recessed area on the back for our aluminum bracket attachment and a recessed area in the lid where the display and buttons will be. Its made outta black, textured finish ABS .089" thick in Ohio, USA! Model HH-3641 on this page:

https://budind.com/view/Plastic+Boxes/Hand-Held+Grabber+Style+P

The PS/relays box is a basic grey Hammond ABS, model RL6175-F:

https://www.hammfg.com/part/RL6175-F

I'll waterproof them both during assembly.
 

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Its been 48 hours curing since the 1st oil temp sensor was potted, so I tested that new precision sensor on the stovetop today. The oil was cold (12 C, was stored in my unheated pantry) so I heated it up to 40 C and synced the sensor with the meter using the trimpot. I left all of the settings alone, same defaults as listed above, so the correction setting in the menu is still zeroed. Then I snipped a lead and measured the resistance across that trimpot: 4.619k ohms. The pullup resistor that I took off from the board was a 5.1k ohms so it was in the general neighborhood, but missed by almost 500 ohms.

I soldered my snipped lead back onto the trimpot and began heating slowly as I stirred the pot. I watched the numbers slowly climb on both displays noticing that the new sensor was lagging 2-3 C behind the meter now, probably due to the added mass of the brass and epoxy potting? So I stopped heating as the temp passed 85 C, but continued stirring the oil to see if my guess was right... and within 10 seconds the new oil temp sensor had caught up to the meter and stabilized there. Both read 88 C, deadnut.

I resumed heating and stirring the oil slowly until the temp reached 100 C and killed the fire. I wanted to be sure that the trimpot syncing that I did at 40 C was still valid at 100+ C where we'll be depending on this bugger the most. After about 10 seconds the sensor caught up to the meter and stabilized there, so I stopped stirring the oil and took a pic. Deadnut at 101 C!

So we have an accurate and predictable linear response now after swapping in a high quality thermie and determining what pullup resistance value is required for it. Honestly, I gotta admit that I did not expect the W1209 to ever be as linear and accurate (and very fast!) as it turned out to be!

I'm gonna start fabbing stuff together this weekend as orders continue to trickle in. Y'all have a good'un!
 

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Here are the suppliers that shipped legit STM8S boards to me so far in case anyone is interested. This first seller claims they are located in Hong Kong, but the W1209 boards shipped from china with a tracking number provided. The package arrived after two weeks passed with legit W1209 boards inside. Only $2.40 each, shipped:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/372576371872

I found this supplier while messaging questions to ebay sellers. A seller responded to me with an ebay link saying no, those you asked about are not, but these boards (fresh new ad link that hadn't appeared in my searches, LOL) are legit STM8S. But he wanted a fortune for a pair of them and only offered them in pairs. I was reading his ad and noticed that it looked like a copy 'n paste ad from somewhere else, so I copied and pasted his ad title into duckduckgo... an amazon ad! At half his price! The guy was planning on doubling up on me... so I ordered the amazon W1209s:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CH7W3XP

So after that order was submitted I went back to ebay and messaged this guy again... asking about legit W1219s this time. He responded with another overpriced link (only $5 profit this time) saying these are the boards you are looking for. He had been very friendly and helpful, a nice guy, so I bought the pair of boards using his ebay link and thanked him for his help, then went to amazon where he had copied and pasted his ad from and bought 2 more W1219s:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H2WBKZD

An ebay seller in GA shipped me 5 fakes. This page contains some pointers to help you spot those fakes:

https://github.com/TG9541/stm8ef/wiki/W1209-Identifying-'compliant'-boards

There are a few vids on youtube explaining them too. You'll need a DC power supply that does not exceed 12 volts to operate them. The onboard 5v supply chip will overheat and fry if 12 volts is exceeded. I suggest they be fed 9 or 10 volts DC max to keep them alive. The onboard relay is garbage so don't use it with any heavy current loading and don't ever feed any AC mains voltage though it like some of the claims suggest... stay alive and have fun!
 

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Work on this project is delayed until the last order arrives later on this week. Everything is here now except for the 24 gauge wire and 5-pin waterproof connectors, but those wire spools are holding the plan up.

I ended up cancelling the scamazon order for those two items after they sat on the order for 3 days and still hadn't sent it to a warehouse for the shipping queue yet. I've noticed that my previous three or four orders from them were held back intentionally like this one was. First it was two days... then three days... being held for ransom... apparently cause I refuse to sign up/pay for their prime membership or any other crap. So scamazon was kicked to the gutter where they belong and added to my permanent blacklist. Dirtbag behavior... expect no mercy!

I went elsewhere and reordered the same brands and they were both shipped the same day (plus were $4.81 cheaper overall) with tracking, so before the end of the week I should be back at it.

In the mean time I've been building a selectable gizmo (like I've been shipping, they're better units than my 1st attempt was) for my '00 Rancher. That gizmo is almost finished, just waiting on an unexpected enclosure order after I dropped the last lid I had on the floor, then stepped on it and cracked it as I stood up to go find it. :-(

I also broke out my UV light curing box and a fat tube of LOCA over the weekend that I have left over from my cell phone refurb days and tested the LOCA (the expiration date has passed) on two scrap pieces of clear polycarbonate. That test went off very well, so I'll be able to use LOCA to bond the display to a polycarbonate lens for the office enclosure, to help eliminate light back-scatter and sharpen the contrast of the display digits.

The rubber button strip is gonna be challenging to secure to the enclosure cover though, I can sense that struggle forming up already! I'll probably have to cut out a thin, rigid frame for that button strip from .010" thick brass shim sheet so the entire strip can be glued into the back side of the cover watertight. I'll dump pics in here as soon as I win that round.

The remaining assembly should be easy and it should go together pretty quickly as long as I don't fumble & break anything. Hang in there...
 

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Research and development ...... there is a guy on one of the sites I was telling about you and your 450 electric diff mod and where to find it , he was wanting to jump it out and was asking about voltage , I was thinking you said 7-8 volts works better than 12 , but I am getting CRS or maybe alcohol poisoning , LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #70 (Edited)
LOL! :)

Those selectable gizmos have two low-drop-out (LDO) voltage regulators in them rated at 5 amps capacity each. One of them is a 5 volts regulator, non-adjustable output. The other is adjustable from about 1.8 volts output up to nominal charging system voltage, minus the drop-out voltage and circuit losses, so roughly about 1.8 volts up to 14 volts on the bike.

The first regulator supplies 5 volts continuosly to the OEM throttle housing 2wd/4wd switch while the key is on, which trips a PCB mount 5 volt relay (a 5V - 40 milli-amp load through that switch guarantees that it will last for decades) that sends battery voltage to the adjustable regulator when 4wd is selected.

I settled on adjusting the supply voltage for the selectable front diff clutch coil gizmo to 9 volts, after testing that clutch using 4.5 volts up to battery voltage. The clutch worked fine even at 4.5 volts... it was sure and strong on engagement, so I did the math to help guide me to a reasonable decision. This is a snippet I posted in the Creamsicle thread:

This spec for the clutch coil came from the 400AT FSM:
Clutch resistance: 5.1 - 5.8 ohms (68 degrees F)

This link can be used to predict gross clutch coil currents and power consumption at various coil voltages, using worst-case coil resistance of 5.1 ohms, for comparison purposes:
Watts/Volts/Amps/Ohms conversion calculator

Predicted results (rounded off):
At 14.5 volts unregulated battery voltage the coil power/energy consumption = 41.22 watts - 2.84 amps
At 12 volts = 28.23 watts - 2.35 amps
At 11 volts = 23.7 watts - 2.15 amps
At 10 volts = 19.6 watts - 1.96 amps
At 9 volts = 15.88 watts - 1.76 amps
At 8 volts = 12.54 watts - 1.56 amps
At 7 volts = 9.6 watts - 1.37 amps
At 6 volts = 7.05 watts - 1.17 amps
At 5 volts = 4.9 watts - 0.98 amps
So adjusting down to 9 volts through that clutch coil prevents it from building heat needlessly... we cut the wattage by more than half (comparing to charging system 14.5 volts) while trimming the current by just over 1 amp. The clutch coil voltage is fully adjustable via a trimpot at any time on the bike though (depress a momentary switch and coil voltage displays on the voltmeter), if the user decides to adjust it to some other voltage.

A cheaper and much quicker, simpler solution might be to run battery voltage through the selectable switch which trips a 12 volt relay, which supplies battery voltage with up to the full 2.84 amps of current through the clutch coil. I have no idea how long that simple setup might last though. Plus e don't get to drop stuff and break stuff with our old, fumbly fingers.
 

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You're never going to get into this kind of technical wizardry in the fb groups that seem to be the place where the average person seems to go now. I joined a few to see....no thanks. No technical help or experts there, not to mention nowhere to archive or threads to go back to. Everything gets buried. I'm sticking around here.
 

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I much prefer the forums for the reasons you just mentioned @wheelsquad.

Unfortunately FB has killed off a lot of forums. Several Jeep forums I used to frequent are gone, and I don't think Highlifter will hold on much longer. Hardly any traffic there anymore, and there is a treasure trove of info there.
 

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Discussion Starter #74
@wheelsquad

Do you have a KFI inch mount like this one on your Rancher?

https://www.kfiproducts.com/100505-honda-rancher-350/400-winch-mount.html

I am looking for a mounting location for the power supply & relays enclosure on my Rancher frame and decided that my PS/relays box will bolt flush to the underside of my (modified) KFI winch mount directly under and between the four winch motor mounting bolts. It will be protected there on my bike. See the pic...

Another possible option I saw is one of the right side or left side frame tubing supports behind the inner splash guard. Those location should work using two U-bolts/nuts with an aluminum plate for the box to bolt onto.

Whad'ya think?
 

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@wheelsquad

Do you have a KFI inch mount like this one on your Rancher?

https://www.kfiproducts.com/100505-honda-rancher-350/400-winch-mount.html

I am looking for a mounting location for the power supply & relays enclosure on my Rancher frame and decided that my PS/relays box will bolt flush to the underside of my (modified) KFI winch mount directly under and between the four winch motor mounting bolts. It will be protected there on my bike. See the pic...

Another possible option I saw is one of the right side or left side frame tubing supports behind the inner splash guard. Those location should work using two U-bolts/nuts with an aluminum plate for the box to bolt onto.

Whad'ya think?
KFI winch mount?? Oh you know it! I love me some KFI. Great plan.
 

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Cool, using the backside of the winch mount will be easy, like taking candy from a baby. :)

I been tinkerin' this week while waiting on orders to arrive, so I'll show ya whats up so far and talk about stuff I'm scheming on.

First off, after sleeping on my brass frame idea for securing around the rubber buttons in the cover watertight, I decided that the 1/8" thick polycarbonate display lens could be extended, so that the polycarbonate lens does double-duty securing the buttons too. So only one part needs to be fabbed up and that plastic frame should be a lot stronger, and easier to JB-weld flatly into the cover. I think I have some smoke-tinted 1/8" polycarbonate sheet that is new, so I'll be getting started on that this weekend.

The two oil temp sensors are finished.

The two W1209 boards are ready for the polycarbonate lens/buttons fabbed parts. The lower PCB edges of both boards were filed down to match the curvature of the enclosure for slightly offset mounting the boards inside... to provide extra space for gluing/sealing the lens down around the upper curved portion of the enclosure. I also decided to just mount trimpots on those boards in some JB-weld, rather than solder in fixed SMD resistors. There is plenty of extra space for them along the lower edges of the boards and I'd rather calibrate those boards deadnut using trimpots during final assembly, than have to perform those calibrations later on using the correction menu. The menu can be used to finely tune later on, if you have a more accurate meter than my two china rigs are. :)

The two power supply & relays enclosures are nearly done. Just need those wire spools, 5-pin connectors and two filter capacitors, then it'll be JB-weld and Ultra-black gasket sealer time! The 9 volt regulators' TO-220 packages are soldered down onto homemade brass sheet heatsinks (a pair of scissors guided by a blind man with shaky hands are all thats needed, LOL) then the thin brass sinks were soldered down to the perf boards. We'll only need about 65 milliamps of current max, so those regulators probably don't need to be heatsinked, but I added the brass anyway just to be sure.

As you'll notice in those two PS/Relay boxes pics below I have added a 2nd power supply/relays board to one of them. The 2nd PS board will provide power for my Start-in-any-gear mod on my Rancher. That mod is in the midst of a makeover idea using an LDO 5 volt regulator and two small PCB mount (one 5v, one 12v) relays. There is so much extra space available inside those enclosures, that I decided to include my revamped Start-in-any-gear mod inside for weatherproofing.

If you want one of those mods added to your box @wheelsquad, just hollar an' it'll get done!

More pics coming following the weekend... :)
 

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I am thinking about adding a '' home made '' fan kit to this '88 trx300fw project I am working on, I got the mounting brackets already on the frame, so all I need to do is rig up brackets from a fan I have on hand to the frame brackets, my question is, can this gizmo operate the fan through the oil temp ?, if so ?, I might want one of these for this !. but I got to get a fan rigged up on the frame first. found a oem fan on ebay, seller is asking 800 bucks for it !..lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #79 (Edited)
my question is, can this gizmo operate the fan through the oil temp ?, if so ?, I might want one of these for this !.
Ya, these gizmos monitor/display the current oil temp in the sump and kicks a cooling fan On and Off according to the upper and lower temp thresholds that the driver has chosen. While the fan relay is kicked on the red LED next to the display is lit up and goes off when the fan kicks off.

Settings can be changed on-the-fly anytime and as often as ya wish and all settings are saved in NV memory, so previous settings are still active next time the key is turned on, even if stored without a battery in the bike.

The gizmos also alert the driver (the display reads "LLL") if the oil temp sensor gets unplugged, a wire gets cut or ripped out by a stick in the trail, or if the oil temp sensor fails out of range, etc.

They also alert the driver (display reads "HHH") if the oil overheats.

There are 7 menu settings that can be tailored to suit, plus the driver can raise or lower the fan kick-on temp quickly by just tapping a button and incrementing up or down.

There are menu-definable upper and lower range limit features provided too, so the driver (or a kid playing around with it?) can't accidentally set the fan On/Off temps too high or too low. No need to enter the menus once they've been set up and the gizmo is fast, accurate and very precise... they measure and display oil temp in 0.1 C increments up to 99.9 C (1 C increments between 100-110 C) within a max tolerance of +/- 0.1 C.

Ideally, you'd want an oil cooler mounted in front of a fan. The motor oil performs the majority of cooling in an air-cooled motor... much more important than air flow around the head/cylinder, although air flow helps.

If ya want one of these gizmos @shadetree hollar an' I'll make ya one. But it'll be quite a while before I can get started on any others... I'm way behind schedule on my own stuff now. Spring has sprung and I'm running my butt off catching up. :)

I'll start a list.. add ya to the top... fair enuff?
 

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Once these two gizmos are done I'll need to restock my bins with a gazillion common parts that have been depleted after making the selectable gizmos, making my own (and my neighbors) occasional gadgets/repairs, and now making these fan control gizmos. I am all out of many common parts and hardware bits, so I'm gonna need to make a big list up and order all of those things back in. Plus I'll have to order in more enclosures, more voltage regulators, more relays, more wire, more shrink tubing, more W1209s, more connectors, more polycarbonate... everything that goes into those gizmos gots to be carried in.

So heads up! If any of you regulars want me to make one of these for ya, hollar so you'll be added to the list and so I'll know how many extra parts to buy! I'm not gonna stock completed gizmos... and can only make them (between every spring and winter I'm busy as a bee) as I find some spare time on stormy days in my offgrid shack. An early request and extended patience be much appreciated. :)
@shadetree yers be next. :)
 
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