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Discussion Starter #21
Fair warning: Supertech oils have no (or terribly insufficient amounts!) ZDDP additive in them. If you put that cheap oil (conventional or syn) in a motor that has a flat tappet camshaft you'll destroy the cam & lifters in very short order! I guarantee ya that! And its deserved!

I've seen plenty of those glittering results flowing out into my drain pans here. I see the long metal shards galled from cams & lifters thickly clustered on magnetic drain plugs too. The farmers around here are all ignorant tightwads... they neglect everything until its broken down then cobble it up, rarely they will change oil & filter in anything and they all buy walmart Supertech oil when ever they do! Yet they moan and complain constantly that their vehicles and equipment don't last very long. I think they all might be genetically related somehow. :)
I'm not at all going to disparage your first hand experience, but I've seen test on Bob the Oil guy's site that confirm many of the SuperTech oils test out almost on par with the name brand stuff. Keep in mind, many name brand oils are low in ZDDP anymore. My old classic Porsche's require a oil with high ZDDP and the forums for those cars have lots of info about what to use, and what not to use.

Most of the high end 20w-50's are high in it, as that's what was used in many of those older German cars. And they need ZDDP or your in trouble. I use Mobile 1 20w-50 just for that reason.

However, with SuperTech it all depends on where you live. I work for home office and was chatting with one of the guys who's over oil, and at that time (4 years ago) there were 3 different companies making ST for Wal-mart. What you got depended on location, and that was due to some legal reasons I can't go into. For a large part of the country the stuff you got was exactly the same stuff as was in a name brand bottle everyone knows and trust.

I've also read most of the "house brand" oils are in the same boat. They are the same stuff you get with one name brand or the other, with a different name slapped on. HOWEVER, I've also read on Bob the Oil guy that the stuff to really stay away from is convenience store chain brands. Or like Dollar General oil. Those test like very old oil, like you used to get 30 years ago.

Any new vehicle I get, from bikes to ATV's to lawnmowers, I research the heck out of it's oil requirements. Then I research who has the certs and additives it needs. No matter what brand you use, if you use the wrong KIND of oil, your going to cause issues.

That's my .02 cents. For what it's worth, I'm very happy with my Rotella diesel oil so far. My new clutches seems to play very nice with it.
 

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Supertech oil reminds me of Quaker State oil. Maybe its a bit like Pennzoil too... but its ability to gall cam lobes off so severely indicates to me that its more'n likely repackaged Quaker State.
 

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I run castrol full syn in all my atvs and motorcycles. its about 10 bucks a qrt, worth every dime !. made for wet clutches, thats all you need to be worried about..IS IT MADE FOR WET CLUTCHES ???. IF NOT ?..THEN DO NOT USE IT !. oh..and car engines are no where near the same thing as atvs or motorcycles !!..do not compare car/truck oil to atv oils..not even in the same ball park !. ( castrol 10w-30 or 10w-40 ) is what I buy and use, worth it to me. what you put in your machine ?..well..thats your call, question is..what will be the out come in the end ?, ever hear the saying '' you get what you pay for '' ?, well..this holds true to even atv oil :).
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Supertech oil reminds me of Quaker State oil. Maybe its a bit like Pennzoil too... but its ability to gall cam lobes off so severely indicates to me that its more'n likely repackaged Quaker State.
I used to run QS, till I learned the hard way to choose better (like 25 years ago, I was young and dumb). Now I run either Castrol or Mobil 1. A lot of the guys in my car groups run Amsoil or Royal Purple. But none of the testing I've seen really justified it over Castrol or M1. (btw, noticed my local Wal-mart has starting carrying some Royal Purple :eek) Amsoil and RP guys are militant about their brand tho! They'll swear using anything else is like throwing metal shavings in your engine! LOL

I'm also fine with Valveoline, everything I've read says it's good oil, but I just never use it personally.

Oil is the gear heads religion...

I run castrol full syn in all my atvs and motorcycles. its about 10 bucks a qrt, worth every dime !. made for wet clutches, thats all you need to be worried about..IS IT MADE FOR WET CLUTCHES ???. IF NOT ?..THEN DO NOT USE IT !. oh..and car engines are no where near the same thing as atvs or motorcycles !!..do not compare car/truck oil to atv oils..not even in the same ball park !. ( castrol 10w-30 or 10w-40 ) is what I buy and use, worth it to me. what you put in your machine ?..well..thats your call, question is..what will be the out come in the end ?, ever hear the saying '' you get what you pay for '' ?, well..this holds true to even atv oil :).
I agree, use JASO MA/1/2 in anything with a wet clutch. And what's good for your Honda Fit may NOT be good for your Briggs and Stratton lawn mower. Oil is not all the same, to be sure!

I don't 100% subscribe to the "you get what you pay for" school of thought in oils however. I've always had rather interesting sports cars, and I've been active on the forums for those cars since back when they were called BBS's. I've seen enough in-depth oil breakdowns by car guys who were also engineers in the field of automotive lubricants to know there is no "silver bullet" of oil for all engines and situations. All brands and types have their "perfect" target type of use case where they really shine.

But like I've said, oil is the gear head version of religion. You've got to take all the info available, and make a decision that feels right to you. I started this tread to get exactly the discussion we got. I wanted to pick the brains of the guys who lived and breathed Honda ATV's. Lots of great info here!

Thanks for the great thread!
 

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Supertech oil reminds me of Quaker State oil. Maybe its a bit like Pennzoil too... but its ability to gall cam lobes off so severely indicates to me that its more'n likely repackaged Quaker State.
I used to run QS, till I learned the hard way to choose better (like 25 years ago, I was young and dumb). Now I run either Castrol or Mobil 1. A lot of the guys in my car groups run Amsoil or Royal Purple. But none of the testing I've seen really justified it over Castrol or M1. (btw, noticed my local Wal-mart has starting carrying some Royal Purple :eek) Amsoil and RP guys are militant about their brand tho! They'll swear using anything else is like throwing metal shavings in your engine! LOL

I'm also fine with Valveoline, everything I've read says it's good oil, but I just never use it personally.

Oil is the gear heads religion...

I run castrol full syn in all my atvs and motorcycles. its about 10 bucks a qrt, worth every dime !. made for wet clutches, thats all you need to be worried about..IS IT MADE FOR WET CLUTCHES ???. IF NOT ?..THEN DO NOT USE IT !. oh..and car engines are no where near the same thing as atvs or motorcycles !!..do not compare car/truck oil to atv oils..not even in the same ball park !. ( castrol 10w-30 or 10w-40 ) is what I buy and use, worth it to me. what you put in your machine ?..well..thats your call, question is..what will be the out come in the end ?, ever hear the saying '' you get what you pay for '' ?, well..this holds true to even atv oil :).
I agree, use JASO MA/1/2 in anything with a wet clutch. And what's good for your Honda Fit may NOT be good for your Briggs and Stratton lawn mower. Oil is not all the same, to be sure!

I don't 100% subscribe to the "you get what you pay for" school of thought in oils however. I've always had rather interesting sports cars, and I've been active on the forums for those cars since back when they were called BBS's. I've seen enough in-depth oil breakdowns by car guys who were also engineers in the field of automotive lubricants to know there is no "silver bullet" of oil for all engines and situations. All brands and types have their "perfect" target type of use case where they really shine.

But like I've said, oil is the gear head version of religion. You've got to take all the info available, and make a decision that feels right to you. I started this tread to get exactly the discussion we got. I wanted to pick the brains of the guys who lived and breathed Honda ATV's. Lots of great info here!

Thanks for the great thread!
a little priceless info, take it for what its worth :). car/truck engine oil has friction modifiers in it ?, what this means is, its '' slicker '' in these engines, as we all should know ?!, slicker oil means less friction on the pistons, but ! car/truck engines have the main engine and tranny separate !. atv/motorcycles have all of the main parts in one area, crank, pistons, tranny, clutch, soooooooooo..what this means is, if you drop car/truck oil in an atv engine that has friction modifiers in the oil ?, all your doing is '' slicking '' up the friction clutch disk, as well as the centrifugal clutch arm weights ?, AND THIS WONT LAST LONG !..LOL. bottom line : atv and motorcycles must NOT have friction modifiers in the oil because the whole engine,tranny is all together with the CLUTCHES !!. :).
 

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I use to use Valvoline oils in everything, but they began to change their product formulations a bunch back in the early-mid 2000s. Some of their lines even got different refined bases swapped in which destroyed the quality and purity of some of their once great standard & premium grade motor oils. They slashed the ZDDP percentages in all of their standard product lines too, same as most other companies were doing. Their racing oils are still some of the finest specialty oils that you can buy (at any price), but everything else I used to depend on from Valvoline got kicked to the curb over 15 years ago. Its certainly not the same dominant company it once was.

I run Rotella in every 4-stroke motor that I own now. Most of those motors are ancient survivors... and almost every one of them were fed Valvoline from day one. I sure miss the good old days!
 

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I used to run QS, till I learned the hard way to choose better (like 25 years ago, I was young and dumb). Now I run either Castrol or Mobil 1. A lot of the guys in my car groups run Amsoil or Royal Purple. But none of the testing I've seen really justified it over Castrol or M1. (btw, noticed my local Wal-mart has starting carrying some Royal Purple :eek) Amsoil and RP guys are militant about their brand tho! They'll swear using anything else is like throwing metal shavings in your engine! LOL
I run the Amsoil Small Engine oil in the Kohler Command Pro on my Scag zero turn. I have not done an analysis on the oil but I change it every 75 hours and it looks exactly like it did when I put it in the engine. That is the only thing I ever run an Amsoil product in though because there isn't a local source near me.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I used to run QS, till I learned the hard way to choose better (like 25 years ago, I was young and dumb). Now I run either Castrol or Mobil 1. A lot of the guys in my car groups run Amsoil or Royal Purple. But none of the testing I've seen really justified it over Castrol or M1. (btw, noticed my local Wal-mart has starting carrying some Royal Purple :eek) Amsoil and RP guys are militant about their brand tho! They'll swear using anything else is like throwing metal shavings in your engine! LOL
I run the Amsoil Small Engine oil in the Kohler Command Pro on my Scag zero turn. I have not done an analysis on the oil but I change it every 75 hours and it looks exactly like it did when I put it in the engine. That is the only thing I ever run an Amsoil product in though because there isn't a local source near me.
Don't get me wrong, Amsoil and Royal Purple are top shelf stuff. The best of the best. I'm only saying that in my use cases the difference doesn't justify the price difference, nor the trouble of getting the stuff. I would NEVER shy away from using either! If I was racing my Porsche's, or running something really hard (like a lawn service where EQ ran all day long and it's your livelihood) or if I had REALLY expensive equipment like a zero turn mower, then the equation changes.

Both products always test out at the top of all test I've seen. But that difference only really shines when your pushing other oils to their limits. If your at the limits, then the extra for those oil can make all the difference. There's a reason the racers don't user SuperTech or off brand oils! And they spend more on oil in a couple of races than I do in a few years! A little $ now saves them a whole lot of $$$ later.
 

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I use to use Valvoline oils in everything, but they began to change their product formulations a bunch back in the early-mid 2000s. Some of their lines even got different refined bases swapped in which destroyed the quality and purity of some of their once great standard & premium grade motor oils. They slashed the ZDDP percentages in all of their standard product lines too, same as most other companies were doing. Their racing oils are still some of the finest specialty oils that you can buy (at any price), but everything else I used to depend on from Valvoline got kicked to the curb over 15 years ago. Its certainly not the same dominant company it once was.

I run Rotella in every 4-stroke motor that I own now. Most of those motors are ancient survivors... and almost every one of them were fed Valvoline from day one. I sure miss the good old days!
when i worked at a couple of repair shops, valve covers, when ya took them off, and also looked at the rockers, you could tell, that valvoline was the oil used, and most times the windshield sticker confirmed it. the covers had a yellowish to brownish film on the inside, as everything else..
 

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I work for home office .
I lived in NWA for about 10 years. That area exploded when WM had the vendors all put in offices in the area (early 2000's).

Back in the Delta now where I belong. Beautiful country up there, but after all the growth there were just too many people. LOL
 

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Car/truck engine oil has friction modifiers in it. What this means is, it's 'slicker' in these engines. Slicker oil means less friction on the pistons, but car/truck engines have the main engine and transmission separate. ATV/motorcycles have all of the main parts in one area, crank, pistons, transmission, and clutch . . . what this means is, if you drop car/truck oil in an ATV engine that has friction modifiers in the oil, all you're doing is 'slicking' up the friction clutch disk, as well as the centrifugal clutch arm weights.
Shell Rotella T4 15W-40
JASO DH-2
JASO MA
JASO MA-2
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I use to use Valvoline oils in everything, but they began to change their product formulations a bunch back in the early-mid 2000s. Some of their lines even got different refined bases swapped in which destroyed the quality and purity of some of their once great standard & premium grade motor oils. They slashed the ZDDP percentages in all of their standard product lines too, same as most other companies were doing. Their racing oils are still some of the finest specialty oils that you can buy (at any price), but everything else I used to depend on from Valvoline got kicked to the curb over 15 years ago. Its certainly not the same dominant company it once was.

I run Rotella in every 4-stroke motor that I own now. Most of those motors are ancient survivors... and almost every one of them were fed Valvoline from day one. I sure miss the good old days!
when i worked at a couple of repair shops, valve covers, when ya took them off, and also looked at the rockers, you could tell, that valvoline was the oil used, and most times the windshield sticker confirmed it. the covers had a yellowish to brownish film on the inside, as everything else..
I've noticed this as well. But aside from the discoloration I personally haven't noticed increased wear? I've heard speculation that film is a good thing, as in, it's leaving a slick cushion on the metal. But it's just that, speculation. I no longer use it in anything, and haven't since around 2000. When it seems it may have changed? I just know a couple of guys who race who swear by it, and they have tried all the big names. But they are also running high end oil, so that might be a big difference.

I work for home office .
I lived in NWA for about 10 years. That area exploded when WM had the vendors all put in offices in the area (early 2000's).

Back in the Delta now where I belong. Beautiful country up there, but after all the growth there were just too many people. LOL
It is beautiful. I've moved a little north, just inside Missouri, where I'm from. It's just SO much cheaper out here in the country!!! NWA has blown up to much for me also. I'm originally from Springfield, Mo. But it was too big, now NWA is too big. Here in Pineville is just about right! ;)

Car/truck engine oil has friction modifiers in it. What this means is, it's 'slicker' in these engines. Slicker oil means less friction on the pistons, but car/truck engines have the main engine and transmission separate. ATV/motorcycles have all of the main parts in one area, crank, pistons, transmission, and clutch . . . what this means is, if you drop car/truck oil in an ATV engine that has friction modifiers in the oil, all you're doing is 'slicking' up the friction clutch disk, as well as the centrifugal clutch arm weights.
Shell Rotella T4 15W-40
JASO DH-2
JASO MA
JASO MA-2
I looked at Rotella T4 the other day, and didn't notice any JASO certs on it. Swear it was 15w-40, but maybe I was looking at the wrong bottle. I'll look again. Not familiar with DH-2, I'll look that up. I enjoy learning new stuff!
 

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^^^learning new stuff.. me 3
:smile
 

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It is beautiful. I've moved a little north, just inside Missouri, where I'm from. It's just SO much cheaper out here in the country!!! NWA has blown up to much for me also. I'm originally from Springfield, Mo. But it was too big, now NWA is too big. Here in Pineville is just about right! ;)
I did inventory management for Lindsay Management's golf courses, so I had to run all over everywhere he had properties, including Springfield. He had that one, one in Columbia, and two in KC, as well as one in Lincoln NE so I had to drive up through Pineville fairly often.

When my 8 mile commute in Fayetteville got up to about 45 mins I'd had enough. Wife at the time was a NWA native and didn't want to move, but then she started doing her personal trainer so I took the kids and moved back to the Delta where I grew up.

I still have friends up there, and occasionally visit, but most of the small college charm that I loved while I was in school there in the 90's is gone now, and I'm blown away by how much the area grows between visits.
 
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