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Buying a used ATV without a title....Yes or No
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I bought mine used with out a title. Before buying it, i called a buddy of mine who is a cop to have the vin ran. All he could tell me is that its never been registered and has not been reported stolen.
The seller i bought it from gave me a Bill Of Sale with his contact info, bike info and purchase price. My wife was with me, she happens to be a Notary, so she notarized it as well. Its my understanding that if the bike was purchased cash when new, there isnt a requirement to title it. Unlike when a loan is used to purchase it, the lien holder will require it be titled.
The only issue i see with purchasing a bike without a Title is insurance. I can get liability and theft insurance for right at $100/year. The liability part of the insurance isnt the problem, the theft part is. If the bike was to ever get stolen i would have to provide a title before they pay me for my lose.
Wayne
The seller i bought it from gave me a Bill Of Sale with his contact info, bike info and purchase price. My wife was with me, she happens to be a Notary, so she notarized it as well. Its my understanding that if the bike was purchased cash when new, there isnt a requirement to title it. Unlike when a loan is used to purchase it, the lien holder will require it be titled.
The only issue i see with purchasing a bike without a Title is insurance. I can get liability and theft insurance for right at $100/year. The liability part of the insurance isnt the problem, the theft part is. If the bike was to ever get stolen i would have to provide a title before they pay me for my lose.
Wayne
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8,309 Posts
a bill of sale won;'t help you if the atv was stolen and or not paid of and there is s lien on it
as if you BUY a stolen atv, and it ends up found in your possession, you will LOOSE the $$ you paid for it and the ATV
and if there is still a bank load/lien on it and again someone sells it to you, , the bank can still come and take it back, report it stolen or?? and again your OUT a atv and the $$ you paid
the BILL of sale, IF the seller used actual real info(many lie here)
BUT if info is accurate, you can TRY and SUE the person for the money you lost, but don;t expect this to be easy or cheap, or some owner to just HAND you back your money
SO< NOT having a title will be a gamble
as , even if your BUDDY is a COP, and runs VIN today and it gets reported stolen a few weeks later(many folks keep atvs away from where they live and takes time to find they are stolen)
you can be right back to where you started
MOST states will provide you with a NEW title, by doing simple paperwork, for a small fee
IMO< where I live since there required to register and LEGALLY own and use in my home state, I would never BUY one that doesn't have a title, that planned to insure and spend a bunch of $$ on
if dirt cheap? well, maybe a gamble worth, but if worth $$ and dirt cheap, would be a red flag to me too!
SO< I guess it can come down to WHERE you live and what your plans are, and HOW much $$ your willing to gamble with IMO!
as if you BUY a stolen atv, and it ends up found in your possession, you will LOOSE the $$ you paid for it and the ATV
and if there is still a bank load/lien on it and again someone sells it to you, , the bank can still come and take it back, report it stolen or?? and again your OUT a atv and the $$ you paid
the BILL of sale, IF the seller used actual real info(many lie here)
BUT if info is accurate, you can TRY and SUE the person for the money you lost, but don;t expect this to be easy or cheap, or some owner to just HAND you back your money
SO< NOT having a title will be a gamble
as , even if your BUDDY is a COP, and runs VIN today and it gets reported stolen a few weeks later(many folks keep atvs away from where they live and takes time to find they are stolen)
you can be right back to where you started
MOST states will provide you with a NEW title, by doing simple paperwork, for a small fee
IMO< where I live since there required to register and LEGALLY own and use in my home state, I would never BUY one that doesn't have a title, that planned to insure and spend a bunch of $$ on
if dirt cheap? well, maybe a gamble worth, but if worth $$ and dirt cheap, would be a red flag to me too!
SO< I guess it can come down to WHERE you live and what your plans are, and HOW much $$ your willing to gamble with IMO!
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5,683 Posts
I paid DMV $2 to have the VIN checked and came back clear. PO also gave me BOS from auction company when he bought at.
If the seller can’t tell you much about it then you’ll have to consider the circumstances. How long have they had it? Has it been altered to hide identifying features? Is it a long overdue project that comes with boxes of parts or are many parts just missing?
If the seller can’t tell you much about it then you’ll have to consider the circumstances. How long have they had it? Has it been altered to hide identifying features? Is it a long overdue project that comes with boxes of parts or are many parts just missing?
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8,309 Posts
again, even if DNR runs a check on atv, and atv is NOT showing stolen
and THEN the REAL owner finds his atv gone and reports it stolen
you can be in possession of s stolen ATV and out your $$ and ATV
DNR only can check what is in there system , just as any law enforcement running a vin can do
as again, say a atv is kept at a hunting camp and or vacation property that is only used a few times a yr or less
and someone steals it, LONG before owner finds out it was stolen,
a report might NOT be reported till atv is discovered stolen by REAL owner
and NOW you, , IF you registered it, will be in possession of a stolen atv(or again one with a bank lien on it)
and you will loose, Bill of sale or not, your LOUT your $$, till you can SUE the seller , IF YOU can find them again, and recoup SOME Of the costs, as court costs, time and legal fee's will add up fast!
Like it or not, crooks are out there, as are spammers, scammers and just plain lairs!, in an every growing drug addicted world, thief is at a all time high
and many steal to sup[port there habits, making things being sold that are stolen even higher than ever!, all the more so when deals seem too good!
so, NO titler, is a and will always be a gamble!
I know personally every vehicle I buy new I get one, and wouldn;t want it without one
and when buying used, I want one as well, to help prevent it as best I can from being stolen
sad part is GOOD crooks, FAKE documents these days, and even worse, Titles can be HAD for a price from most DMV"S pretty easy
BUT IMO< most crooks don;t got thru the steps as it could come back to bite them in the A$$, using there ID and info to get one!
but some don;t care or just use fake ID's or stolen one's I gather too!
there are just a lot of dishonest folks out there any more IMO< sad, and just getting worse as time passes it seems
and THEN the REAL owner finds his atv gone and reports it stolen
you can be in possession of s stolen ATV and out your $$ and ATV
DNR only can check what is in there system , just as any law enforcement running a vin can do
as again, say a atv is kept at a hunting camp and or vacation property that is only used a few times a yr or less
and someone steals it, LONG before owner finds out it was stolen,
a report might NOT be reported till atv is discovered stolen by REAL owner
and NOW you, , IF you registered it, will be in possession of a stolen atv(or again one with a bank lien on it)
and you will loose, Bill of sale or not, your LOUT your $$, till you can SUE the seller , IF YOU can find them again, and recoup SOME Of the costs, as court costs, time and legal fee's will add up fast!
Like it or not, crooks are out there, as are spammers, scammers and just plain lairs!, in an every growing drug addicted world, thief is at a all time high
and many steal to sup[port there habits, making things being sold that are stolen even higher than ever!, all the more so when deals seem too good!
so, NO titler, is a and will always be a gamble!
I know personally every vehicle I buy new I get one, and wouldn;t want it without one
and when buying used, I want one as well, to help prevent it as best I can from being stolen
sad part is GOOD crooks, FAKE documents these days, and even worse, Titles can be HAD for a price from most DMV"S pretty easy
BUT IMO< most crooks don;t got thru the steps as it could come back to bite them in the A$$, using there ID and info to get one!
but some don;t care or just use fake ID's or stolen one's I gather too!
there are just a lot of dishonest folks out there any more IMO< sad, and just getting worse as time passes it seems
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13 Posts
Thanks guys, really appreciate everyone’s input on this. This only backs up what I did this summer. I had a chance to buy a 2014 rancher with low miles on it for 2k. Guy did not have the title and I he wanted to meet up at a Home Depot parking lot. Needless to say I passed, my buddy said I as an idiot for passing on the deal but to many red flags.
I found a nice rancher later in the summer and paid market price for it, guy had all the paperwork, showed me his ID and I picked up the quad at his house. The title had the sellers name and correct address on it.
I found a nice rancher later in the summer and paid market price for it, guy had all the paperwork, showed me his ID and I picked up the quad at his house. The title had the sellers name and correct address on it.
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38,589 Posts
a bill of sale WILL KEEP YOUR AZZ OUT OF JAIL THOUGH !. oh, and there is no such thing as a title for atvs ?, they are called '' bill of origin ''. unless you live in a state where it is street legal ?, there is no need for a title. if your really smart ?, you will look to see if the vin number has been tampered with at all ?, this should throw a red flag up !. regardless, i'd rather be out cash, then go to jail ?, and a bill of sale is all you need to save your azz from going to jail. and for the record ?, I take a pic of the plate on their car/truck..this way I got some kinda proof who I got it from.
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bill of sale only works if you can prove it was a REAL one
as any idiot can make one and make a signature on it
so I don;t think one will keep you out of jail, pending the reason they found you with it
here in PA< we do get issued titles with atv, snowmobiles and even MX bikes, as well as other things
says TITLE at top of paperwork
ton so stolen atv 's are sold with INTACT Vins, as not everyone will alter them, as they KNOW its harder to sell if they do
so, again, a lot may come down to where you live and well, again, HOW Much your willing to gamble
staying out of jail will be a LOT easier with a state issued title, or "bill of Origin"
over a hand written bill of sale!
NOW< if you buy many things in MANY states these days, they (state DMV or DCNR) will actually have forms that are LEGAL bills of sale, and they require you to have motorized at time of sale!, making them official BILL OF SALES
and not just a piece of paper ANY idiot can make and scribble a fake name or info on it!
BIG difference in something notarized by a licensed tag/title shop, or notary,
over a hand written bill of sale , if you ever end up in court!
just saying, better ways to stay out of jail if one wished to protect themselves
a photo of a lic plate can MAYBE help, but means nothing in court, as any idiot can photo a plate any where any time, hard to prove it came time of sale!
VIDEO the sale, might be better option of wanting to do so as evidence!
just saying LOL
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I use Nicb vin check, you can check 5 vins in 24 hours for free. I've bought several that came with a Certificate of Origin from out of state. My state of South Dakota not only replaces it with a title but issues a license plate (registered as a motorcycle). They honor the certificate and a hand written bill of sale (even took one in written on a napkin) as long as everything is signed.
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mind you, each state has its own laws, not all will be the same. here in Arkansas, all you need is a bill of sale.
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8,309 Posts
right and agree with you
but am also saying, that, a Bill of sale on a piece of paper will NOT hold up in court very well as theyc an be faked and just have BAD info on them
leaving you in the end without your money or atv, if it ends up stolen
and you mIGHT end up having to prove YOU didn;t just FAKE a bill of sale too, pending reasons they catch you with a stolen atv!
as think about it, say your a crook
you MAKE a fake bill of sale and then go steal a atv
, does that make you the owner, or keep you out of jail?
you have a bill of sale? RIGHT?
but what is the bill of sale worth if its not certified or notarized >
as I said, just cause they say a bill of sale is all that is needed, push come to shove, you better be able to PROVE the bill of sale is valid
and that picture of a lic plate, I doubt would help much, , as again anyone can take a pic of a lic plate in a parking lot, on hi way or??
SO< how much peace of mind do you want?
here in PA< we HAVE to register an atv if used any where but on your OWN private l;and
they will give you a LIC plate, but its NOT valid to use any where on any road LOL
its a JOKE< but it does help on proving things, as plate would have to match Vin and Title info/registration info too!
its a shame IMO that ALL states don;t have the same rules on vehicles, and a few other things, after all this the USA< and a driver lic is good across the USA< yet, every state has its own silly rules
seems like BS to me
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i've done a bill of sale for 28 years, never once had an issue here in Arkansas. as for the pic of his plates ?, I also had the trailer with the atv on it when I took the pic..lol.
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I hear you shade, but sadly, its a ever changing world
I doubt 28 yrs ago, scammers were as many as there now
and the world wide web , allows for even more scammers in more places
How many times have you seen adds for something for sale in several states at dirt cheap prices?? as an example
I also recall when a hand shake once meant something , as did a man's word!
and I recall yrs back when you didn;t need to lock your doors
Times have changed, so IMO< its best to take as many steps to protect yourself as possible to Prove things
pic of atv on trailer might help
but I still say a certified/notarized bill of sale is a better option, to prove you DID buy it and not steal it, if its ever found to be stolen
WON"T help you get your money back or keep the atv if stolen, or a bank load /lien on it, but WILL keep you out of jail, better than again, a hand written bill of sale will!
since you mentioned Jail
in court, details matter
a paper bill of sale any idiot can FAKE< MAKE< might not save your butt , like it once did!, due to again, the changing ways of the world we now live in
I doubt 28 yrs ago, scammers were as many as there now
and the world wide web , allows for even more scammers in more places
How many times have you seen adds for something for sale in several states at dirt cheap prices?? as an example
I also recall when a hand shake once meant something , as did a man's word!
and I recall yrs back when you didn;t need to lock your doors
Times have changed, so IMO< its best to take as many steps to protect yourself as possible to Prove things
pic of atv on trailer might help
but I still say a certified/notarized bill of sale is a better option, to prove you DID buy it and not steal it, if its ever found to be stolen
WON"T help you get your money back or keep the atv if stolen, or a bank load /lien on it, but WILL keep you out of jail, better than again, a hand written bill of sale will!
since you mentioned Jail
in court, details matter
a paper bill of sale any idiot can FAKE< MAKE< might not save your butt , like it once did!, due to again, the changing ways of the world we now live in
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In North Carolina you can not get a title for any vehicle designed for off road use only. I think 1983 or 1984 was the last year you could make an off road vehicle street legal and then get a title.I have heard of people getting XRs titled out of state then transferring the title to NC. A few months later the title was revoked and the tag cancelled.A local dealer use to floor plan Hondas. He would sale a bike and keep the Certificate of Origin and the empty crate. It would be up to a year after he sold it before he paid Honda for it.
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I bought my 350 new in 2004 for $4099 which was sticker, didn't even negotiate. I do have original bill and bill of origin but never titled as i only use it on my farm. I was told I messed up as I should have titled and owe my blessed state of Illinois back tax. I guess you learn from your mistakes as I didn't think I had to title it.
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