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Discussion Starter #21
yeah i don't care what oil i run long as its a synthetics oil so i Polly run yamaha lob or mobile1
 

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The HN4 is the synthetic. You know, I still have never heard a valid reason on why you can't go from synthetic back to conventional...
Red, I'm sure 'll have someone disagree with this statement? But I did write it either. I will say I have spent a few hours researching Conventional Oils, Blends, and Pure Synthetics on the market today.

The answer to your question is........There isn't any valid reason. Everything I have read about the synthetics made today is you can swap from synthetic to conventional every other oil change if you want to. The only time I leave the factory motor oil in is when the engine is breaking in. I'll keep it in until the book says to change the oil out.

As for that arguement (not being allowed to put synthetic into an engine because of it's too slick and the parts inside of the engine won't break in at all?) Corvette, Jaguar, Ferrari and Lamborghini are just a few that have synthetic in them from the factory.

Personally I use 100% synthetic in all of my engines. I did so in the motorcycles engines (even the Sportster) because the engine oil also lubes the transmission and gears. The gearing inside of the transmission when oil is run through them causus what they call Shear to viscosity breakdown of the VII molecules. And synthetic generally has very few VII's so it's more stable in motorcycle engines (sounds like I know what I'm talking about???)

But shear causes Conventional oils to break-down to about a half life. For example: If the manufacturer says you can run the oil in your engine for say 3000 miles? Then because of shear (where the gears grind the oil as it flows and gets squeezed through them)......This cuts the oil life to half of it's normal life because of this. There are no worries about this with Synthetic.

If anyone cares to read any of this for them-self? Trust me when I say this. It's very interesting information, if you can get through some of the technical writing. But there isn't very much of that, so it's good info and easy to understand. It has to be easy to understand......I understood it.

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
 

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The synthetic is thinner and could cause a oil leak in older engines
That used to be the case, and you'd be correct if the powers that be in the R&D for Companies like Mobil didn't see this as a problem and change it.

Conventional oil base includes Paraffin (wax) which helps seal around seals and gaskets. Synthetics didn't use this. To help with this problem the Synthetic Oil producers added something to their oil that promotes seal and gasket expansion. Now synthetics also have this same quality without the paraffin.

Also Synthetics change very little when talking about the thickness, be it very hot, or just coming out of the bottle for the first time. Now Conventional oils change big time in thickness from hot to cold. So Synthetics are better off inside of an engine in colder climates because of this feature. When an engine gets cold, conventional oil thickens and takes longer for the oil to thin out as the engine warms up. This is where most of your engine wear comes from (believe it or not? Start-up)

Synthetics on start-up are ready to go immediately for proper oil circulation. This alone should be a reason for someone to switch from conventional oil to Synthetic if they live in a cold climate?

Sorry for the book.
 

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I have seen first hand how some synthetics can cause the clutch in an ATV to slip.
 

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I have seen first hand how some synthetics can cause the clutch in an ATV to slip.
Red, you are absolutely correct. If the wrong Syntheic Oil type is used, it will definitely cause the wet clutch to slip. But that goes for Conventional Oils as well. The big issue for any oil used in anything with a clutch is, don't use anything that has the words ENERGY CONSERVING written in the seal. This same seal will have the API SERVICE OIL and the weight of the oil in the container SAE 10W-30.

Oils that are or essentially all 0w-20, 5w-30, and 10w-30 oils are energy conserving and should not be used in your bike or ATV containing a wet clutch.

We can't label all Synthetics as wet clutch slipping oils. Just as we can't label all Conventional Oils the same way. Any oil that has certain additives will make the clutch slip. The good thing is they are easily identifiable. They all have that seal saying Energy Conserving on them. If it says Energy Conserving on the bottle? DON'T USE IT.
 

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OH, I misread your book.LOL i thought you were saying synthetic is synthetic. I didn't read it rael carefully.
 

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What about a Synthetics blend oil.?
Mud, Blended Synthetic Oils from what I've read are a rip-off to the consumer. The article shows a Blend contains no more than 30% Synthetic oil in the mix. But you'll see the manufacturer usually charge double for the Blend as they would charge for the Conventional.

Manufacturers love this type of oil (directly out of the information at http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils.html) it cost them about 15% more to make this oil. And like I said earlier, they charge upwards of double the price for it.

Also. The big reason manufacturers stop at the magical 30% is because they don't have to change their additive package, so they don't have to pay big bucks to the API for recertification of their product.

Just as an example: When this info was written, it cost a company looking to get API Certified for a single "S" motor oil formulation $125,000 to $300,000.
This is why a company doesn't want to change their additive package more than the 30% I was telling you about earlier.

So basically to answer your question? You get no more than 30% Synthetic in a blend. If you consider the cost of the blend verses the full synthetic? I believe you'll find the synthetic is the better of the two in many ways.

By the way. All of this info was compiled from 2003-to 2005 by Mark Lawrence. If anyone would like to email him? I'll gladly give you his email address. Just PM me and I'll send it to you. Personally I've found this information to be very useful over the years. But then again....That's just me.
 

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OH, I misread your book.LOL i thought you were saying synthetic is synthetic. I didn't read it rael carefully.
Don't feel bad. I did the same thing on one of the posts when you all were talking about the main jet circuit the other day.

It was one of my many "Doooh" moments.
 

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We was eating dinner today and I asked my uncle about the synthetic because I was thinking of switching He said he switched and developed a oil leak when there wasent one before. He said the front oil seal started to leak. He went a head and had the seals replaced.
 

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We was eating dinner today and I asked my uncle about the synthetic because I was thinking of switching He said he switched and developed a oil leak when there wasent one before. He said the front oil seal started to leak. He went a head and had the seals replaced.
Honestly....Your Uncle is a smart man! He saw a leak, and took care of it. Too often we see people putting off little things like replacing a seal or gasket because it's leaking, only to pay for their mistakes later.

I just love people who do proper maintance. Plus it gives us some down time with our machines so we can turn some wrenches and have some fun. I swear if I could do this stuff for free...I would! As a matter of fact...I have.

Now your Uncle can put Synthetic in the engine and not worry about it? Just kidding.
 

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He didn't want to spend that money but he did. I told him he should have had me do it. It would have been free. I gotta put a timing belt and fuel filter on a Subaru next week. Well I know for sure the fuel filter they may weight on the timing belt.
 

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He didn't want to spend that money but he did. I told him he should have had me do it. It would have been free. I gotta put a timing belt and fuel filter on a Subaru next week. Well I know for sure the fuel filter they may weight on the timing belt.
It's a good thing he can rely on your ability and the fact you are willing to help out. The world is very short on people like you who do something for someone else without looking for a hand-out after the job is done.

Doing good for others will come back to you or a family member when you least expect it. That has happened to me many times. And it's always nice when it does happen. Because you can never be everywhere for your family during their time of need. No matter what that need may be.
 

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There is a class B rider around the corner from me, he helps me with anything I don't know.
 

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There is a class B rider around the corner from me, he helps me with anything I don't know.
The Giving Spirit to help others is what it's all about. The cool thing about this Spirit is we can be on the giving end one day, and the receiving end the next.

This Forum is a perfect example of Giving to others. As I read, I applaud the people I see who are always trying to help someone else by the experience they have already gone through. Making sure the next person doesn't make the same mistake, or doesn't buy needless parts in order to repair their problem. Or mainly so you can help the next guy get back to having fun which is why most of us got these ATV's in the first place.

I'm also blown away by the camaraderie you all show the people who have been on this Forum for a while, but also the fact you treat everyone the same regardless if they've been here a while or not.

This is why I love this place. So many giving to others they have never met. It shows a certain caliber of people you all are. Like I said earlier, people giving to each other is a rear thing anymore.

And like RED said, his buddy around the corner helps him out when he needs it most. That is a true friend. Which I think the people on this Forum are. You could say we got each others back.

And all of this from a Synthetic Oil discussion :tongue:
 

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I agree, Of all the forums I have been on this is by far the most tight knit group. It is always nice to know you can ask questions and get answers in a friendly manner.
 
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