[Exaviator]

Had my 350 out in the woods the other day and it worked just great. Parked it in the garage and two days later, went to start it and it would not start. Trouble shooting found low compression, and when it was turned by hand, there was definitely a valve/piston contact--but it was slight enough to go thru. Thought I might as well since the electric starter was doing it many times. Pulled the rocker cover and found that the timing was off about 45 degrees or about 5 teeth(I forgot to count). I had removed the tensioner to reset the timing and put it back in so I could turn over the engine by hand with the valves all closed. I was trying to determine if any were bent. the plug was out and I let it suck in air and then put my finger over the hole to see what kind of compression I had. To my surprise, it held compression for several seconds and I could hear no air hissing out thru any valves. As well, when the piston was going down, it would build vacume and hold it for 2-3 seconds and when I removed my finger, it would let the piston drop further.
I will still probably remove the head to check, but what do you guys think about this as a test for good valves. I could see no noticeable difference in gap before I removed the rockers.
Can the timing be off that amount, have contact and still have no bent valves? Can I be that lucky after gambling that the old chain was still OK---it was not, and it is being replaced this time.
Appreciate your thoughts.

 

[shadetree]

Had my 350 out in the woods the other day and it worked just great. Parked it in the garage and two days later, went to start it and it would not start. Trouble shooting found low compression, and when it was turned by hand, there was definitely a valve/piston contact--but it was slight enough to go thru. Thought I might as well since the electric starter was doing it many times. Pulled the rocker cover and found that the timing was off about 45 degrees or about 5 teeth(I forgot to count). I had removed the tensioner to reset the timing and put it back in so I could turn over the engine by hand with the valves all closed. I was trying to determine if any were bent. the plug was out and I let it suck in air and then put my finger over the hole to see what kind of compression I had. To my surprise, it held compression for several seconds and I could hear no air hissing out thru any valves. As well, when the piston was going down, it would build vacume and hold it for 2-3 seconds and when I removed my finger, it would let the piston drop further.
I will still probably remove the head to check, but what do you guys think about this as a test for good valves. I could see no noticeable difference in gap before I removed the rockers.
Can the timing be off that amount, have contact and still have no bent valves? Can I be that lucky after gambling that the old chain was still OK---it was not, and it is being replaced this time.
Appreciate your thoughts.

i can tell you this...if you can remove the timming chain tensioner..and rotate the cam by hand to put it back in time...your timming chain is too far gone !..replace it..before you get alot of damage !

 

[Exaviator]

You are right about that. I am in the process of doing it. Been looking thru the service manual trying to find the procedure and I can't for the life of me find it. I was almost positive that I had seen it but---not now.

Where is it? I just want to be sure I get all the steps in correct order.

What do you think of the compression situation that I described?

 

[shadetree]

You are right about that. I am in the process of doing it. Been looking thru the service manual trying to find the procedure and I can't for the life of me find it. I was almost positive that I had seen it but---not now.

Where is it? I just want to be sure I get all the steps in correct order.

What do you think of the compression situation that I described?

if the timming got off..one of your valves isn't closing..that explains your compression..as for where your process in your manaul for the timming chain replacement..i can't tell you this..buttttt..i can tell you mine is on the right side...pull the right side case off..remove your kick starter..try not to pull the kick starter shaft out..it's a pain to get back lined up !.lol..you will need to pull the centrifugal clutch off..oil pump..once all that is off..you can get to the timming chain..you will need to have the top end off..course..you probally knew this !..just lower the new chain down from the top...put it back on the crank's timming gear..here's a tip..tie a piece of wire to the top of the new chain..then tie it to the handle bars or frame..this keeps it from droping back down on you. after all that is done..then just relign all the cam and flywheel..make sure you got the piston on TDC..cam lobes down..cam sprocket lines horizonal to the cylinder head..re-check all your alignments before you seal everything back up and bolt it all back down ! added :..while you got the head off..check your valves for being bent !

 

[Exaviator]

Thanks Shade, for outlining the steps. That is about what I thought.
Yeah, I know that valves are not closing at the proper time--but what I was asking is your thoughts on the leak test that I did with all the rockers removed and all the valves closed. It seemed pretty air tight to me, but I guess I will remove the head, just to double check.

 

[Exaviator]

I got lucky. I removed the head and although both intake valves showed sign of contact with the piston--it was very slight and not enough to cause any damage. Both valves are totally air tight and will hold pressure and a vacume when created via the intake isolator, and will hold gasoline.

I got the right cover off and did not save the gasket(bummer). I removed the centrifigul clutch and flywheel---took a look at the one way bearing and it looks a bit flattened on the top of the oblong rollers, so will try to get the other one and change the rollers out as Shade described.
It looks to me like the clutch AND the oil pump must come off to get the new chain on. Damned if I can find that procedure in the manual, but it MUST be there. Trundelling on.

 

[Helmut]

It looks to me like the clutch AND the oil pump must come off to get the new chain on. Damned if I can find that procedure in the manual, but it MUST be there. Trundelling on.

Yep, both clutches and the oil pump have to come off.

The service manuals don't have a listing for just the timing chain. For the timing chain, you have to look in the "cylinder head/valves" section for removing and installing the cam. You have to look in the "clutch" section for anything to do with the bottom of the timing chain and gear and clutches, oil pump, etc. It don't have one section that just covers the timing chain.

 

[Exaviator]

Thought I would post and let you know that I got the chain off and am presently waiting for my new chain and one way bearing to arrive--ETA Friday.
I have great promise that I will be getting an aftermarket cam chain and clutch bearing from an outfit in Quebec. When this arrives and will work, I will post the info.
The Honda parts guy also told me that the clutch brg for many years and models will work. ie a 300 brg is the same size--it just rotates the opposite way so has to be inserted backwards. They even had one in stock--pricey though. But I can wait 3 days to save $100. LOL:icon_ devil:

 

[shadetree]

Thought I would post and let you know that I got the chain off and am presently waiting for my new chain and one way bearing to arrive--ETA Friday.
I have great promise that I will be getting an aftermarket cam chain and clutch bearing from an outfit in Quebec. When this arrives and will work, I will post the info.
The Honda parts guy also told me that the clutch brg for many years and models will work. ie a 300 brg is the same size--it just rotates the opposite way so has to be inserted backwards. They even had one in stock--pricey though. But I can wait 3 days to save $100. LOL:icon_ devil:

pretty much all the one-way bearings are the same size...it's not the size that counts ( no pun intended ladies )..if they are facing a certain way..the out side of the clutch for example...will only turn one way...if you take those bearings out..and flip them..like i mentioned..it will go the other way..this is why i said..if they discontinued one bearing for one side..and can still get the other bearing for..say the starter bearing for the flywheel..just get it..flip the bearings..install them into the carrier you want to use..simple !.

 

[Exaviator]

Thought I would post and let you know that I got the chain off and am presently waiting for my new chain and one way bearing to arrive--ETA Friday.
I have great promise that I will be getting an aftermarket cam chain and clutch bearing from an outfit in Quebec. When this arrives and will work, I will post the info.
The Honda parts guy also told me that the clutch brg for many years and models will work. ie a 300 brg is the same size--it just rotates the opposite way so has to be inserted backwards. They even had one in stock--pricey though. But I can wait 3 days to save $100. LOL:icon_ devil:

pretty much all the one-way bearings are the same size...it's not the size that counts ( no pun intended ladies )..if they are facing a certain way..the out side of the clutch for example...will only turn one way...if you take those bearings out..and flip them..like i mentioned..it will go the other way..this is why i said..if they discontinued one bearing for one side..and can still get the other bearing for..say the starter bearing for the flywheel..just get it..flip the bearings..install them into the carrier you want to use..simple !.

I underestand what you were saying is to get the starter bearing, remove the actual oblong bearings from the casing, flip them over and install them in the clutch bearing casing.
I am not saying that at all. I am saying that he told me that the 300 engine clutch bearing is available(here anyway), and is exactly the same diameter as the one for the 350, and all you need do is install the whole thing in the 350, opposite to the way it is labelled, for the 300. No need to be fooling with individual oblong bearings. And as I said,The Honda parts guy is adament that he is correct and I will confirm this hopefully on Friday if my order arrives.
Lots easier and way less expensive fix

 

[Helmut]

I am not saying that at all. I am saying that he told me that the 300 engine clutch bearing is available(here anyway), and is exactly the same diameter as the one for the 350, and all you need do is install the whole thing in the 350, opposite to the way it is labelled, for the 300. No need to be fooling with individual oblong bearings. And as I said,The Honda parts guy is adament that he is correct and I will confirm this hopefully on Friday if my order arrives.

Yes, I think that will work, too.

 

[shadetree]

Thought I would post and let you know that I got the chain off and am presently waiting for my new chain and one way bearing to arrive--ETA Friday.
I have great promise that I will be getting an aftermarket cam chain and clutch bearing from an outfit in Quebec. When this arrives and will work, I will post the info.
The Honda parts guy also told me that the clutch brg for many years and models will work. ie a 300 brg is the same size--it just rotates the opposite way so has to be inserted backwards. They even had one in stock--pricey though. But I can wait 3 days to save $100. LOL:icon_ devil:

pretty much all the one-way bearings are the same size...it's not the size that counts ( no pun intended ladies )..if they are facing a certain way..the out side of the clutch for example...will only turn one way...if you take those bearings out..and flip them..like i mentioned..it will go the other way..this is why i said..if they discontinued one bearing for one side..and can still get the other bearing for..say the starter bearing for the flywheel..just get it..flip the bearings..install them into the carrier you want to use..simple !.

I underestand what you were saying is to get the starter bearing, remove the actual oblong bearings from the casing, flip them over and install them in the clutch bearing casing.
I am not saying that at all. I am saying that he told me that the 300 engine clutch bearing is available(here anyway), and is exactly the same diameter as the one for the 350, and all you need do is install the whole thing in the 350, opposite to the way it is labelled, for the 300. No need to be fooling with individual oblong bearings. And as I said,The Honda parts guy is adament that he is correct and I will confirm this hopefully on Friday if my order arrives.
Lots easier and way less expensive fix

just one problem..and correct me if i'm wrong..but..the carrier only goes into the clutch housing one way..you cannot flip the whole carrier around..and install it into the clutch..it has a ridge that only lets it go inside the housing..yu'll see what i'm saying when you go to install it...at least this is what i know of anyway..been wrong before..whats another day ?..lmao.

 

[Helmut]

just one problem..and correct me if i'm wrong..but..the carrier only goes into the clutch housing one way..you cannot flip the whole carrier around..and install it into the clutch..it has a ridge that only lets it go inside the housing..yu'll see what i'm saying when you go to install it...at least this is what i know of anyway..been wrong before..whats another day ?..lmao.

The one-way clutch bearing don't have that ridge, it's made the same on both sides and you can turn it over. The one-way starter clutch bearing does have that ridge, though.

 

[shadetree]

just one problem..and correct me if i'm wrong..but..the carrier only goes into the clutch housing one way..you cannot flip the whole carrier around..and install it into the clutch..it has a ridge that only lets it go inside the housing..yu'll see what i'm saying when you go to install it...at least this is what i know of anyway..been wrong before..whats another day ?..lmao.

The one-way clutch bearing don't have that ridge, it's made the same on both sides and you can turn it over. The one-way starter clutch bearing does have that ridge, though.

ok..i knew one of them had it..i was thinking the clutch side did..if thats the case..then he can do what he was talking about.

 

[Exaviator]

Got my parts today and got them installed. Exactly like the parts guy told me, the one way clutch (from a 300) was marked "out"on one side, and in order for it to work properly on the 350, I simply had to insert it with the out side to the inside. It worked very well and now I have a kick starter and engine braking. Also, the new cam chain really showed me how much the old one was worn and stretched. A little more fiddling to get the cam shaft in place with the correct timing. LOL The clutch brng was $69 and the cam chain was $81 or close to that. I was happy about that. They are both aftermarket parts, but the parts guy(who is a real helpful fellow) told me that they were exactly the same as OEM, just labelled differently. Same chain, he said.

I am having a bit of a tussle with getting the right side cover back on, so I quit for the day and did some reading. It appears that I neglected to take off the reverse gear lock lever and that was preventing me from getting the cover on. So the lever is soaking in a good penetrant overnight in the hope it will come off tomorrow. I am guessing that the long part of that inside spring fits on top of the oil screen housing. Any tricks to getting that together properly will be appreciated.

 

[Helmut]

I am having a bit of a tussle with getting the right side cover back on, so I quit for the day and did some reading. It appears that I neglected to take off the reverse gear lock lever and that was preventing me from getting the cover on. So the lever is soaking in a good penetrant overnight in the hope it will come off tomorrow. I am guessing that the long part of that inside spring fits on top of the oil screen housing. Any tricks to getting that together properly will be appreciated.

I always take the reverse lockout lever off and remove the shaft from the cover and put it in the crankcase and then put the cover on. And yes, the long part of the spring rests on top of the oil screen housing, like you said.

 

[Exaviator]

Thanks man. I will give that method a try tomorrow----IF the lever comes free. It seemed pretty rusted on.

 

[Helmut]

Thanks man. I will give that method a try tomorrow----IF the lever comes free. It seemed pretty rusted on.

If the lever won't come off, you can still put it back on with the lever on, but it's a little harder to do because of the spring. You have to put the cover on until it likes about 1/8 in going all the way on and then use a tiny screwdriver to push the spring back and in place on top of the screen housing. Then pull the screwdriver out and push the cover on down.

 

[Exaviator]

The lever came off easy this morning. Stuck the lockout gear in the crank housing hole and the cover slid on like a peeled onion.
Great tip, Helmut----thanks
Going to go look at a 1999 Honda 300 with a bent rear axle. and no front brakes and bad front wheel bearings---see if the rest is worth making an offer. I really want a 300 with independent front suspension.

 

[Helmut]

You're welcome, glad you got it fixed!!