Honda ATV Forum banner

1 - 20 of 89 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello All,

1st post to the forum! I have a 1987 Foreman 350D which I currently can kick-start only. When I turn the key it goes to Neutral and when I hit start, it doesn't make any noise to try to start but does dim the neutral light slightly.

I've replaced the solenoid and the starter with new parts. Not sure what to do next.

Engine and trans runs fine for a '87, so nothing is seized.

Any advice?

Thanks!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
Check the fuse box for a bad fuse first. Then check the condition of the battery... for both voltage (12.8v fully charged) and a load test. Also check the battery cables at each end. They should be clean & shiny and tight. The positive cable from the battery connects to one of the large posts on the solenoid, while the other cable connecting to a large post on the solenoid goes to the side of the starter motor. Verify those cables are clean, tight and hooked up right.

Check that the ground cable coming from battery negative post is bolted down to the starter mounting bolt on the motor where it belongs and is clean and tight. Also check the ground coming out of the wiring harness under the seat where it bolts down to the top of the frame at the seat bracket.

Finally, unplug the small connector from the solenoid and verify that the Y/r wire in that plug (on the wiring harness side of the plug) has positive battery voltage when you depress the starter button on the handlebar.

You can test the starter itself by jumping across the two large posts on the solenoid once everything else is verified. There will be some arcing with sparks flying when you do that if the starter runs... be careful about starting a fire in your garage or blowing up the battery.

You can download a copy of the factory service manual HERE if you haven't found one yet. Let us know what skakes out... or if we can help you further?

Welcome to the forums!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for the quick reply! I'll give this a try and let you know how it goes.

Also - Is it normal for when this starts that I have to leave it choked for about 30 seconds and then slide it down? When I let the choke off, the engine revs quite high and then it settles down.

I plan on doing a seafoam dump here soon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: retro

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
Thank you for the quick reply! I'll give this a try and let you know how it goes.

Also - Is it normal for when this starts that I have to leave it choked for about 30 seconds and then slide it down? When I let the choke off, the engine revs quite high and then it settles down.

I plan on doing a seafoam dump here soon.
Save your seafoam for later use... ask about what cool things you can do with that after it is running perfect.

First lets get the electric starter working right. Then you'll have to disassemble the carb, clean it thoroughly & reassemble per the service manual recommendations. When you get that done your motor will start and run perfectly, with no high revving after taking the choke off. :)

Ask about the carb and seafoam later and I'll drop ya some tips.

EDIT:
Right now we gotta learn why the solenoid is not operating. Have you put any non-OEM parts on the bike?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
One more thing... an' I don't mean to be a pest but... have ya got any purdy gal pics of your 350D you'd care to share with us?

:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Check the fuse box for a bad fuse first. Then check the condition of the battery... for both voltage (12.8v fully charged) and a load test. Also check the battery cables at each end. They should be clean & shiny and tight. The positive cable from the battery connects to one of the large posts on the solenoid, while the other cable connecting to a large post on the solenoid goes to the side of the starter motor. Verify those cables are clean, tight and hooked up right.

Check that the ground cable coming from battery negative post is bolted down to the starter mounting bolt on the motor where it belongs and is clean and tight. Also check the ground coming out of the wiring harness under the seat where it bolts down to the top of the frame at the seat bracket.

Finally, unplug the small connector from the solenoid and verify that the Y/r wire in that plug (on the wiring harness side of the plug) has positive battery voltage when you depress the starter button on the handlebar.

You can test the starter itself by jumping across the two large posts on the solenoid once everything else is verified. There will be some arcing with sparks flying when you do that if the starter runs... be careful about starting a fire in your garage or blowing up the battery.

You can download a copy of the factory service manual HERE if you haven't found one yet. Let us know what skakes out... or if we can help you further?

Welcome to the forums!
I followed all the steps but sadly, no luck!

Bad Fuses - I checked them all and all were intact, not sure if these are the correct fuse sizes though. Please see the attached pictures.

Did a voltage and load test - Everything held solid @ 12.2V. Connections were clean and tight.

Regarding "Also check the ground coming out of the wiring harness under the seat where it bolts down to the top of the frame at the seat bracket.", I wasn't sure where you meant but I posted a picture showing where I thought you meant. It needed a bit of a tightening but not much and didn't impact it (or at least not enough to make it start).

Verified the Y/R voltage @ 12.2V. Didn't jump the solenoid but did run the voltmeter across the + and - terminals on the solenoid and confirmed 12.2V. Solenoid is brand new though.

I'm not sure where to proceed next, although I did notice that there is a big rubber thing labeled "Fuse" which doesn't seem like you can open it. Not sure if there is something in there I should verify. Also, please see some other photos below which should be of help including one of the unit itself! It's a beaut!
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: Goober

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
That is a fine looking tank you got there!!! Wow!! Thats the 2nd nearly mint 350D we seen this week! Congrats!

Your battery should measure 12.8 volts fully charged. 12.2 volts is quite low... I'd put a small charger on it until this thing is diagnosed. The big fuse box that you haven't opened yet is the 30 amp main fuse. When that fuse blows everything on the bike goes dead.

Anyway, lets recap before moving on...

The long cable connecting to the new solenoid should go directly to the side of the starter motor supplying power for it.

The long cable connecting to the negative battery post should go directly to the rear-most (there are two bolts mounting the starter) starter mount bolt where it grounds to the motor.

The frame ground in your photo is correctly located, that ground comes out of the wiring harness. Verify these...

You said that when you turn the key switch on that you have a neutral light when the shifter is in neutral correct? When you shift into reverse (rock the bike back and forth to verify it is in gear) with the key on, does the neutral light go off and the reverse light come on? We are making sure that those two switches haven't gotten the plugs swapped by someone in the past....

Next up, verify that the fuel pump relay has both connectors plugged into it. The relay is inside the box on the frame above the right-rear wheel and has red connectors.

Next up, unplug the handlebars switches under the front fender and verify that the kill switch has continuity in the "Run" position and no continuity in either of the off positions. Verify that the starter button switch has continuity when you press the button. Then plug that short harness back in.

If you get to this point and the solenoid still won't operate, find two lengths of wire to jumper test it with and hook them up in this order:
Connect one end of the first jumper wire to the positive battery post and the other end to the Y/r lead going into the solenoid. Connect one end of your second jumper wire to the green (there is a stripe on the green lead but I can't remember what color it is) looking lead and momentarily touch the other end of that jumper to the battery negative post, or a frame ground. The solenoid should "Click" when you power it. If the battery is in good condition the starter motor should operate and crank over the motor. If you do not hear a "Click" from the solenoid, either the battery is dead (or junk) or the new solenoid is defective.

Let us know what shakes out... and have fun!

Edit:
Your front wheels are swapped left for right apparently? The lugs on the tires are oriented for reverse direction of rotation. They should look like the rears... which are correct.

THANKS for those photos!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
That is a fine looking tank you got there!!! Wow!! Thats the 2nd nearly mint 350D we seen this week! Congrats!

Your battery should measure 12.8 volts fully charged. 12.2 volts is quite low... I'd put a small charger on it until this thing is diagnosed. The big fuse box that you haven't opened yet is the 30 amp main fuse. When that fuse blows everything on the bike goes dead.

Anyway, lets recap before moving on...

The long cable connecting to the new solenoid should go directly to the side of the starter motor supplying power for it.

The long cable connecting to the negative battery post should go directly to the rear-most (there are two bolts mounting the starter) starter mount bolt where it grounds to the motor.

The frame ground in your photo is correctly located, that ground comes out of the wiring harness. Verify these...

You said that when you turn the key switch on that you have a neutral light when the shifter is in neutral correct? When you shift into reverse (rock the bike back and forth to verify it is in gear) with the key on, does the neutral light go off and the reverse light come on? We are making sure that those two switches haven't gotten the plugs swapped by someone in the past....

Next up, verify that the fuel pump relay has both connectors plugged into it. The relay is inside the box on the frame above the right-rear wheel and has red connectors.

Next up, unplug the handlebars switches under the front fender and verify that the kill switch has continuity in the "Run" position and no continuity in either of the off positions. Verify that the starter button switch has continuity when you press the button. Then plug that short harness back in.

If you get to this point and the solenoid still won't operate, find two lengths of wire to jumper test it with and hook them up in this order:
Connect one end of the first jumper wire to the positive battery post and the other end to the Y/r lead going into the solenoid. Connect one end of your second jumper wire to the green (there is a stripe on the green lead but I can't remember what color it is) looking lead and momentarily touch the other end of that jumper to the battery negative post, or a frame ground. The solenoid should "Click" when you power it. If the battery is in good condition the starter motor should operate and crank over the motor. If you do not hear a "Click" from the solenoid, either the battery is dead (or junk) or the new solenoid is defective.

Let us know what shakes out... and have fun!

Edit:
Your front wheels are swapped left for right apparently? The lugs on the tires are oriented for reverse direction of rotation. They should look like the rears... which are correct.

THANKS for those photos!!!!

I'll be getting to work on this in the morning! A few questions:
1. I used to own a 86 FourTrax 350 and when I keyed on, it used to flash the Oil Temp light for a second before illuminating the Neutral. This 87 doesn't do that and just lights up Neutral. Is that normal for the 87's or might that have something to do with it?
2. You're saying the negative terminal off the BATTERY (not the SOLENOID) should be running to the rearmost bolt on the starter, correct?
3. (Just a statement) When I do rock the bike and put it in Reverse, the Reverse lamp does go on and the Neutral lamp does go off.
4. Handlebar switches under the front fender???? What do you mean? I took off the switches that are mounted to the left-side of the handlebar and examined the contacts but found no clear issues.
5. What do you mean by verifying continuity?
6. Are you saying I have the Front wheels on the wrong sides?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
I'll be getting to work on this in the morning! A few questions:
1. I used to own a 86 FourTrax 350 and when I keyed on, it used to flash the Oil Temp light for a second before illuminating the Neutral. This 87 doesn't do that and just lights up Neutral. Is that normal for the 87's or might that have something to do with it?
This bike should do that too, but it won't if the battery is low, or if there is anything wrong with the cooling fan control. You can come back to that later if that persists... but you'll need a good, fully charged battery in the bike right now. Do you have an extra battery handy you can put jumper cables on to assist the battery in the bike?

2. You're saying the negative terminal off the BATTERY (not the SOLENOID) should be running to the rearmost bolt on the starter, correct?
Correct, there are two bolts right next each other mounting the starter to the motor. The negative cable from the battery bolts down there.
3. (Just a statement) When I do rock the bike and put it in Reverse, the Reverse lamp does go on and the Neutral lamp does go off.
Great, thanks.
4. Handlebar switches under the front fender???? What do you mean? I took off the switches that are mounted to the left-side of the handlebar and examined the contacts but found no clear issues.
I'm sorry, I meant to say to unplug the handlebars switches harness connector. That plug is located under the plastic fender. Follow the switches harness down behind the headlight area until you see where it plugs into the main harness.
5. What do you mean by verifying continuity?
Use your ohm meter (or multimeter) to check for continuity through the kill switch and the starter button switch. I'll find that section in the service manual and make another post about that.
6. Are you saying I have the Front wheels on the wrong sides?
It looks like it... the lugs on the tires are directional. It looks like the left side wheel and tire have been swapped onto the right side, and right side wheel put on the left side. The rear wheel in your photo looks correct.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
Your battery might be dead since you said it measures only 12.2 volts. That is not good enough to start the bike, so before you go any further you'll either have to put some jumper cables on it or replace the dead battery with a new one, fully charged.

Section 20 page 6 in the service manual shows which wires in each harness plug to check for continuity while switches are on. Unplug each connector from the main harness so you are checking only the switches. While you are in there you may as well check the ignition switch too.

 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
38,518 Posts
quick question, do you know for a fact the starter is any good at all ??. it won't crank if the starter is bad. if in doubt ?, remove the starter, hook 12 volt dc ( from/to a good battery ) , and see if it turns over ?.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
quick question, do you know for a fact the starter is any good at all ??. it won't crank if the starter is bad. if in doubt ?, remove the starter, hook 12 volt dc ( from/to a good battery ) , and see if it turns over ?.
I don't. The person I bought it from this week told me they just replaced the starter and solenoid. I don't know with what brand but it looks like everything is hooked up right.

Your battery might be dead since you said it measures only 12.2 volts. That is not good enough to start the bike, so before you go any further you'll either have to put some jumper cables on it or replace the dead battery with a new one, fully charged.
I hooked up a charger and that brought it up to 13.8V and it still wouldn't turn over (didn't even make a noise) but after I took the charger off, it dropped the voltage right back down to 12.2V.

I'm going out right now to test for continuity on the handlebar switches. How do you do the ignition switch continuity test?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
I hooked up a charger and that brought it up to 13.8V and it still wouldn't turn over (didn't even make a noise) but after I took the charger off, it dropped the voltage right back down to 12.2V.

I'm going out right now to test for continuity on the handlebar switches. How do you do the ignition switch continuity test?

Your battery is shot and probably won't ever click in a solenoid, so thats gotta be dealt with before you can diagnose this any further. My point here is... how do you know there is anything wrong with it? We might be wasting time chasing ghosts here....

You check continuity through the ignition switch same procedure as you are doing with the kill switch and starter switch. Find the connector, unplug it from the harness and use the service manual for wire color pairs to check with the switch on.

Have fun!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Next up, verify that the fuel pump relay has both connectors plugged into it. The relay is inside the box on the frame above the right-rear wheel and has red connectors.

Next up, unplug the handlebars switches under the front fender and verify that the kill switch has continuity in the "Run" position and no continuity in either of the off positions. Verify that the starter button switch has continuity when you press the button. Then plug that short harness back in.
Update!

Checked the fuel pump relay red connectors - both were in their tight - so tight that i couldn't pry them off even if I tried.

Interesting update on Continuity:

Kill Switch
  • Black/Green - Continuity in STOP/RUN/STOP (All Modes) - Is this a problem?
  • Black/White - Continuity in RUN Only - Seems to work as you prescribed above

Starter Switch
  • Black/Brown - Continuity with switch PUSHED OR RELEASED (All Modes) - Is this a problem?
  • Yellow/Red - Continuity with switch PUSHED OR RELEASED (All Modes) - Is this a problem?

Maybe we're getting somewhere...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Your battery is shot and probably won't ever click in a solenoid, so thats gotta be dealt with before you can diagnose this any further. My point here is... how do you know there is anything wrong with it? We might be wasting time chasing ghosts here....

You check continuity through the ignition switch same procedure as you are doing with the kill switch and starter switch. Find the connector, unplug it from the harness and use the service manual for wire color pairs to check with the switch on.

Have fun!
Any suggestions on a replacement battery?

Ignition switch, I found the connector at the fender but I don't know where I'm supposed to go for the other end-point. For the Starter & Kill switches I went to the actual handle bar switches and tested point-to-point connectivity between those two places (made a tap in the wiring and then electrical taped over it when I was done). Where would I go to do similar for the ignition switch?

Should I buy a new starter and solenoid anyways? If so, what do you recommend?

Not sure how this will help with the Oil Temp light, but at any rate, perhaps the continuity items I noted in my last post may help us draw nearer to a conclusion.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
Nope, the continuity checks were all done wrong. Each plug has to be disconnected from the main wiring harness so you'll be testing the switches only!

If the switches are still plugged into the main harness, your continuity tests are not isolating the switch in question from the rest of the electrical system. Follow me...?

The plugs are under the front fender... you may have to take the front carrier rack and fender off to access those plugs.

As far as buying a new battery...? The brand and type is your choice. I recommend buying a quality brand is all. The battery must be the right part number type to fit your bike though... look that up before buying.

The service manual covers everything we have been discussing here.

DON't buy anything else yet, just a new battery. Charge the new battery for an hour with a slow charger before you install it. Your bike may start right up...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Nope, the continuity checks were all done wrong. Each plug has to be disconnected from the main wiring harness so you'll be testing the switches only!

If the switches are still plugged into the main harness, your continuity tests are not isolating the switch in question from the rest of the electrical system. Follow me...?

The plugs are under the front fender... you may have to take the front carrier rack and fender off to access those plugs.

As far as buying a new battery...? The brand and type is your choice. I recommend buying a quality brand is all. The battery must be the right part number type to fit your bike though... look that up before buying.

The service manual covers everything we have been discussing here.

DON't buy anything else yet, just a new battery. Charge the new battery for an hour with a slow charger before you install it. Your bike may start right up...
I have the carrier rack and the hood/fender/side panels completely off the machine. It looks like the Terminator robot at the moment! I unplugged the big plastic connector (see image below) and the Brown/Black connector is a separate plug that doesn't run into that connector.

Where did I go wrong?

Also - how about this battery?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/EverStart-PowerSport-Battery-Group-Size-ES-TX14/36246213
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
The wally world battery I got no idea about. You need to buy a quality YTX14-BS battery. Most of them come from china nowadays and companies are just slapping their labels on them.

There are two major north american battery makers: Johnson Controls and East Penn. The Johnson Controls produced batteries are almost always better quality than East Penn. Johnson bought out most of the good companies and major brands we used to choose from... so they are my "go to" company for batteries.

Walmart sells either china made of the cheapest Johnson battery they can get their hands on. You can do better than that... quality costs more... but its your call.

Again: YTX14-BS
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
About those connector plugs... I don't have my bike out today so I can't easily look at it and compare... but I posted that info already....

Use the service manual. Everything you have asked about is very well covered in there. I even posted a page from the manual that shows you exactly which two plugs to take apart along with their locations on the frame. If you have any new questions let us know...

Enjoy your work!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
About those connector plugs... I don't have my bike out today so I can't easily look at it and compare... but I posted that info already....

Use the service manual. Everything you have asked about is very well covered in there. I even posted a page from the manual that shows you exactly which two plugs to take apart along with their locations on the frame. If you have any new questions let us know...

Enjoy your work!
If you can link me to a good high-quality battery, that would be great, but the one I linked was one of the most expensive and highest quality I could find. When I google that part number I can find them for super cheap (< half then what the one I linked priced in at). The following are the only ones I can find in that high-end price range:

https://www.batteriesplus.com/replacement/battery/yuasa/ytx14bs/cyla14bsxta

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...um-powersport-battery-200-cca-tx14/16940011-P

As far as the connector plugs, I went and did a direct comparison between the service manual and my plugs. I'm pulling the right things from what I can see. The question is what end point they are expecting me to use for the continuity test. A continuity test (in theory) should test the extremes in the wire to ensure that there aren't any line breaks. That's why I tested the end of the wire at the connector and the other end at the switch.

I'm just confused.
 
1 - 20 of 89 Posts
Top