Honda ATV Forum banner

61 - 80 of 141 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,526 Posts
Discussion Starter #62
oh, and '86 models MUST have a battery hooked up in order to fire the spark plug !.
Thanks for replying Shadetree
i have an ok battery in it–the knockoff 14BS it came with. It started with it when i got it. The starter is REALLY weak i think it’s toast–i can try another battery.

I installed a new master switch, used dash light subharness, repaired the starter switch and installed OEM CDI.
There are a few moused chewed wires left on the main harness and N R subharness.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,526 Posts
Discussion Starter #63
Man that would be great if it was just the battery. starter squeals and turns real slow. Would save me a rebuild!
Speaking o rebuild I bought that gasket kit Shadetree recommended. $10! Got the passage plug snd all the seals!
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
36,708 Posts
Man that would be great if it was just the battery. starter squeals and turns real slow. Would save me a rebuild!
Speaking o rebuild I bought that gasket kit Shadetree recommended. $10! Got the passage plug snd all the seals!
I must be getting old ?, I dont remember anything about that gasket kit ?..oh well..as long as it works..right ?. as for the '86 needs battery ?, forget that !. I was told wrong along time ago. its the '87 foreman that must have the battery in to fire plug, not the '86 !.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,526 Posts
Discussion Starter #65 (Edited)
Ok still no visible spark.
3 good batteries but starter barely turns unless you push the kick starter down;
No fuel pump buzzing, but there is power to fuel pump; pump runs good when harness jumped;
Brand new CDI;
Changed spark plug;
Ignition coil primary .5 Ohms;
Ignition coil secondary ~8 KOhms;
Removed cap ~ KOhms;
Pulse generator 324 Ohms
There’s no Exciter coil wire (PO installed an aftermarket stator)–and the main harness Bl/R wire is capped–like the PO installed a D model stator and CDI. It ran with this setup when i got it.
No moused chewed harnesses–i even slaved in the replacement main harness–no change

My next moves:
Better check the engine numbers
I plan to swap the fuel relay and CDI into my running Fourtrax to isolate a potentially faulty module.
There is a yellow wire coming off the stator but I checked it for resistance like it was the exciter coil wire but i got zero Ohms
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
36,708 Posts
Ok still no visible spark.
3 good batteries but starter barely turns unless you push the kick starter down;
No fuel pump buzzing, but there is power to fuel pump; pump runs good when harness jumped;
Brand new CDI;
Changed spark plug;
Ignition coil primary .5 Ohms;
Ignition coil secondary ~8 KOhms;
Removed cap ~ KOhms;
Pulse generator 324 Ohms
There’s no Exciter coil wire (PO installed an aftermarket stator)–and the main harness Bl/R wire is capped–like the PO installed a D model stator and CDI. It ran with this setup when i got it.
No moused chewed harnesses–i even slaved in the replacement main harness–no change

My next moves:
Better check the engine numbers
I plan to swap the fuel relay and CDI into my running Fourtrax to isolate a potentially faulty module.
There is a yellow wire coming off the stator but I checked it for resistance like it was the exciter coil wire but i got zero Ohms
if the stator, c.d.i. , and the reg/rec all don't match for the correct year model ?, you will never get spark. there should be 3 yellow wires coming from stator.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,526 Posts
Discussion Starter #67
Ok the pump relay works normally in my other 86; didn’t try the CDI yet.

Engine numbers match my other 86, so doesn’t look like a D engine.
TE07E-50xxxxx

The stator and reg-rec were definitely aftermarket–white connector on the stator hookup. I replaced the reg-rec with an 86 part i bought thru PSN–green connector.

So, I’ll check the CDI then get into the left case and look at the stator and exciter coil. I suspect the Bl/R coming from the exciter coil–as you can see it’s not hooked up and the strange Y wire from the stator not hooked up either.

OH Yeah those stray two connectors wrapped up in the blue tape on the rear frame part of the harness? Headlight switched power!
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
Ya it sounds like your stator is missing the exciter coil. 86 & 87 Fourtrax have an AC-CDI ignition, so ya gotta have that exciter to power the OEM CDI & ignition coil. The PO must have cobbled in a china DC-CDI..?

I'd have to read up in the FSM again to be sure... but if I remember right the fuel pump relay gets a signal from the exciter coil too... so the fuel pump stops running when the motor stops turning for safety purposes. If thats true, then the fuel pump relay won't energize the fuel pump until the exciter coil is hooked up and you are cranking the motor over with the starter.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,526 Posts
Discussion Starter #69 (Edited)
Thanks Shadetree and Retro

Funny, it ran with all the knockoff stuff, chewed wires, broken start switch and old car master switch. I “fixed” it alright lol.

Yep Almost as if the PO set it up as a DC-CDI system. Is this possible? I will have to read over The manual on the DC system—doesn’t list the exciter coil

Well he’s passed on and left no notes, so I’m looking for a year-correct stator.

Til then i can work on corrosion prevention and greasing stuff.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
Ya its easy to cobble in a cheap china DC-CDI... its not a very intelligent choice but its certainly easy. The PO may have just snipped that Black/red exciter coil wire off inside the stator harness after it bit him 1500 times per second with its' few hundert AC volts sine waves. :)

Its worth a looksee for it... cobblers always take the easy way out so I can't imagine one of those types replacing a stator... not successfully anyway.

Once the exciter coil is back the fuel pump should run until it builds pressure while the motor is cranking.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,526 Posts
Discussion Starter #71
Thanks Retro
Where is the exciter coil? When i see an 86 stator am I looking for a module attached to the Bl/R? Are they replaceable or do you have to buy another stator?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
36,708 Posts
Thanks Retro
Where is the exciter coil? When i see an 86 stator am I looking for a module attached to the Bl/R? Are they replaceable or do you have to buy another stator?
the exciter coil is made into the stator, if the wrong stator is in the motor ?, then the PO was trying to run it in ac mode would be my guess.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
Yep, OEM exciter windings are integrated into the stator alongside the 3-phase alternator windings. The alternator outputs are three yellow wires. The exciter output is generally a Black/red wire on most Honda AC-CDI systems. My guess...? the PO probably swapped in a china stator, or snipped that wire when he cobbled in the china DC-CDI. You'll know once you remove it what happened.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,526 Posts
Discussion Starter #74
I will double check the readings on these wires tomorrow. 3 Y going to the reg/rec and a Bu/Y, Gr/W and a Yellow going into main harness (CDI)

there’s definitely no Bl/R coming out of the stator but in its place that 4th Yellow wire. The Bl/R wire to the CDI is capped but not clipped.
Like purposely left discoed.

Man i learnt sumpin today my brain is full
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
Could that 4th yellow be the exciter wire color in china..? LOL :)

You could measure voltage outputs of each of those yellows if you have a peak voltage adapter and a decent multimeter, to learn if one of them is anywhere near to 100 volts AC at cranking speed.

Anyway, there should be 6 wires in an 86/87 Fourtrax OEM stator harness. The pulse gen wire should be Blue/yellow, the ground should be Green/white, the exciter should be Black/red, with three alternator Yellows.
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,956 Posts
Sorry 'bout all this thread pollution Goober... but figured I'd share the safety feature mentioned earlier that Honda used on the early Fourtrax models. In the pic, see that Black/yellow wire coming from the CDI and going to both; the ignition coil primary, and the fuel pump relay..?

The fuel pump relay cuts power to the fuel pump in event the motor stops for any reason. The fuel pump cannot start until the motor is being cranked or kicked over while the ignition switch and kill switch are both in run position. So what you observed with your fuel pump was normal since the ignition is not yet functional.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,526 Posts
Discussion Starter #77
Could that 4th yellow be the exciter wire color in china..? LOL :)

You could measure voltage outputs of each of those yellows if you have a peak voltage adapter and a decent multimeter, to learn if one of them is anywhere near to 100 volts AC at cranking speed.

Anyway, there should be 6 wires in an 86/87 Fourtrax OEM stator harness. The pulse gen wire should be Blue/yellow, the ground should be Green/white, the exciter should be Black/red, with three alternator Yellows.
that’s a great thot, and why i need to recheck. If i can get the right resistance reading off that Y and Gr/W, then I’ll try hooking it up. More tonight
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,526 Posts
Discussion Starter #78
Sorry 'bout all this thread pollution Goober... but figured I'd share the safety feature mentioned earlier that Honda used on the early Fourtrax models. In the pic, see that Black/yellow wire coming from the CDI and going to both; the ignition coil primary, and the fuel pump relay..?

The fuel pump relay cuts power to the fuel pump in event the motor stops for any reason. The fuel pump cannot start until the motor is being cranked or kicked over while the ignition switch and kill switch are both in run position. So what you observed with your fuel pump was normal since the ignition is not yet functional.
Thanks no this is great stuff—the reason I bought this project was to learn the hard stuff! makes for perfect understanding now why the fuel pumps don’t run until the engine rotates.
If y’all hadn’t commented then I probably wouldn’t have realized that I performed the resistance checks incorrectly—never checked for resistance between Y and Gr/W.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,526 Posts
Discussion Starter #79
There’s definitely no evidence of an exciter coil on this stator, so I’ll look for one but I’m not in a hurry. Got some honeydews.

Found a great wire repair solution that eliminates using butt splices. Today I bought a new 25 Watt soldering iron and clear heat shrink.

I repaired the connectors on the gear position switch subharness! Took some wires, pins and the rubber insulators from a salvaged ignition switch assembly. Soldered the new wires into the pin and socket tip— used clear heat shrink to cover the splice. Now the repair isn’t covered with black tape or heat shrink😎

Also used black heat shrink to repair the damaged rubber insulators
 

Attachments

61 - 80 of 141 Posts
Top