[Deansdad]

I just bought 2 non-running bikes. Using parts from one to another I got one running. Now I have the fuel coming out of the overflow tube on carb about 50% of the time (the drain screw is seated fine, just high fuel level), so I am going to clean bowl and replace needle & seat. But I have questions...
1. Looking at the wiring diagram I assume the fuel pump relay is used as a power switch only, not as a fuel pressure
switch. One of the bikes was burned from a fire, so I took what was left of that pump apart. It had a switching relay
inside, but due to fire can't tell if it had a pressure function or not. Do these pumps have one internally or do they run
continously?
2. I have no idea if either have a Honda pump or a cheap pop-off. Just what is the actual problem with the cheap pumps?
Pressure/volume problems or electrical failure?

 

[Goober]

I think your carb float is bad or the needle not fully seated. Does your needle have the clip installed on the proper position?

 

[Deansdad]

haven't taken it off yet. I'm assuming from sitting the needle tip is bad.

If a bad float I believe once it sinks it would drip from then on. This drips for a while, stops for a while, etc. Will check for float rubbing bowl, though.

I find it interesting the Honda manual tests fuel pump volume and not pressure

 

[shadetree]

the fuel pumps work from a fuel cut-off relay.

 

[Deansdad]

First of all it runs today. Put in a new needle, float height in spec. Started it up & it poured gas out overflow. I got what i fiqure is a new Amazon fuel pump in the box with the other bike. Put it on and it clicked until bowl full, then stopped & started as needed.
So now,
1. what is wrong with the Amazon Chinese pumps???

2. What does the fuel pump cut relay do? (Honda calls it that,not a cut off?) Measure amperage draw to determine pressure?? There is no fuel line into it, so
how can it measure pressure? I'm thinking its just a relay to handle the higher draw of fuel pump instead of using the ignition key.

3.What are the relay points for inside the pump its self? Seemslike that is where the pressure regulator should be.

4. When pumps go bad is it an over pressure situation that floods carb? Wondering if thats why one I bought was burned up ( that owner was the one that
gave me the new pump in a box.... thinking flooding & caught on fire before he changed it.)

5. My Honda shop manual shows no clip on the needle and it had none. The old needle was worn and float level was high. New needle
brough tit back to specs. Needle fits into a slot in the float for retention.
5. The defective pump I took out had what appeared to be a Mitsubishi emblem cast on the plastic end. Did Honda buy Mitsubishi parts or is this something someone got to fit?

 

[Goober]

I have an extra pump I will check the float for ID marks.
Here's a pic of the clip I mentioned

 

[Deansdad]

I see. Actually I didn't even bother with that for now. Seems to run good throughout full range. It came in the kit, and the manual says to put it in the 3rd groove also. Read online since I posted the question of a Mitsubishi emblem & appears Honda did buy from them.... wow.... wonder if they sell new ones yet & what the part number would be. Honda must be marking up the pumps 30% or so to resell.

 

[Goober]

Do you also have the baffle shown in the top of the picture looks like an upside down 10-gallon hat.

 

[Okie]

Here is some info about your questions about fuel delivery: How to test the pressure and how it operates.
click on the link below.

If you have the carb apart again, take a q tip and clean the needles SEAT.




http://www.hondaatvforums.net/forums/honda-fourtrax/88418-1986-fuel-pump-questions.html

 

[Deansdad]

I did clean it out and blow passages before putting together.

But hey, can somebody tell me about their Chinese aftermarket pump experience beside "they are junk"?

Stop running, leak, lose/gain pressure????? Seems to be several different brands selling, is one ok? Has anyone had bad luck & gotten a return out of Amazon?

Remember, your Dad (or Grandpa) wouldn't have anything to do with "cheap Japanese junk" in the 50s!

 

[retro]

Well, the chinese junk we must tolerate today is certainly a far more serious problem than the japanese stuff we were buying in the 50s and 60s. The japanese engineered and produced their stuff to work... they had/have an honest intent and it all did work just fine! It worked well enough for them to dominate entire market sectors for decades (many growing to become monopolies) and they are still very competitive market leaders today!

The chinese steal other folks' ideas and produce copies of other folks' stuff that might have worked, but they cut so many corners trying to make things at zero cost that their end result is most times only a resemblance of a useful product. Its junk that they must lie about to sell!!! None of us are willing to spend our hard earned cash on useless junk being produced by liars and thieves. Don't want them in our neighborhoods.

Big difference between japanese products and most of the others in the far east, its pretty obvious that one is an actual producer of real quality goods and most of the others are scammers!

Think you can get lucky with a china fuel pump...? Its your decision, but gaming the Amazon return policy to transfer risk of a known quantity is dishonest. Expect no mercy.

 

[Okie]

I did clean it out and blow passages before putting together.

But hey, can somebody tell me about their Chinese aftermarket pump experience beside "they are junk"?

Stop running, leak, lose/gain pressure????? Seems to be several different brands selling, is one ok? Has anyone had bad luck & gotten a return out of Amazon?

Remember, your Dad (or Grandpa) wouldn't have anything to do with "cheap Japanese junk" in the 50s!

I'll bite on your question.

IMHO: of China junk fuel pumps and other stuff.

For example here is one for $15 or make offer on flea bay market. 132036069715

When I buy anything that is China made I just accept the outcome, don't even bother with a return, etc because I asked for what I received and the outcome.

If I did not know for sure about a problem for example your issue I might buy a China pump instead of a $100 OEM pump as a test pump only, but sometimes even using a China pump as a test pump might cause one to be mislead and I could not turn my back to one of the fuel pumps due to possible leakage and a burn down leaking fuel onto the engine area..
I sure would not take my 4 wheeler to the deep brush with a China pump installed as a permanent fix.

As for your issue of the carb bowl flooding intermittently I would probably think about removing the OEM formed fuel line from the pump to the carb (because that hose is NLA and preformed) and get a 16 inch piece of fuel line and install a T fitting and make a long loop and install a low pressure gauge of 0-10 lbs in the fuel line and go ride the bike or test and if you ever see the fuel pressure at 3-5 lbs and the carb starts spilling fuel you will know then that it's the carb, not the fuel pump. Most generally a small engine carb needle and seat will hold pressure of 8-10 lbs without leaking.

China made is a scary thing, I cannot remember anything I ever bought (and I've got a good memory) that said made in china that was trustworthy. I remember several things that were made in china and is/was junk and had to be thrown in trash almost immediately.
Donald Trump is trying to get China to make better stuff and I have not seen any improvement in their products since the 50's.

Did you see Goober's post where he says he has a spare fuel pump?:wink

 

[Deansdad]

I have a fuel pump gauge I could use..... is 3 to 5 lbs correct pressure? My Honda manual doesn't list pressure, just volume.

As an aside, my Ford flathead runs 1.75 lbs pressure, but lots of volume. Just asking.

I agree about the copy-cat stuff.

I guess just ride with others to see. No problems with the rest of bike, I will get a Honda part. I need to ride it to make sure its all working right, just haven't had the time lately.

 

[Okie]

I have a fuel pump gauge I could use..... is 3 to 5 lbs correct pressure? My Honda manual doesn't list pressure, just volume.

As an aside, my Ford flathead runs 1.75 lbs pressure, but lots of volume. Just asking.

I agree about the copy-cat stuff.

I guess just ride with others to see. No problems with the rest of bike, I will get a Honda part. I need to ride it to make sure its all working right, just haven't had the time lately.

read this about fuel Honda Fourtrax (1986) pumps at this link.

http://www.hondaatvforums.net/forums/honda-fourtrax/88418-1986-fuel-pump-questions.html

It is also linked on pg 1 of this thread.

A Ford flathead with 1.75 lbs of pressure if it's a mechanical pump will eventually stall out if climbing a long hill at full throttle. The very minimum for a Carbureted truck fuel pump is 5 lbs constant, especially going uphill with a heavy throttle. (about 7.5 lbs unloaded and idling) I've seen some of the new China AUTO fuel pumps (for carburetor engines) only deliver 2.5 lbs of fuel pressure on a truck and really cause the owner some headaches looking for fuel delivery issues changing filters, pulling gas tanks and cleaning in tank filters, etc when the issue is the CHINA fuel pump.

You just need to check your fuel pump pressure and make sure it's not over 5 lbs. If your carb still floods ever once in awhile and fuel pressure is not over 5 lbs you have a erratic bad carb needle/seat. You can review on line how to carefully clean the seat if you have a new needle. Usually using a Q-tip and carb cleaner.

 

[Okie]

Where did shadtree go? Hope the flood did not get him. He has been weak on replies to posts lately????

Weather is cool enough in our area that the shade is not needed. Might need a boat due to the rain.

 

[Goober]

Get it sorted yet?

 

[shadetree]

Where did shadtree go? Hope the flood did not get him. He has been weak on replies to posts lately????

Weather is cool enough in our area that the shade is not needed. Might need a boat due to the rain.

haha..shadetree is around, he's just been busy !..lol. I hide in the woodwork, and watch from the shadows to see if ya'll are doing a good job !..lmao.

 

[shadetree]

to answer about the fuel pressure ?, it can not be more than 4 psi !. this is what I was told from my bud at my local Honda dealership, when he talks..I LISTEN !.

 

[shadetree]

OP, have ya checked the carb drain screw to see if it's tight ??. they will leak or, in this case, act like the float needle is not sealing if the drain screw is not tight ?.