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Have two quads here that are getting water in the oil after rebuilds/having the front of the motors off(clutches, etc). I'm guessing there is something I am missing/making a mistake on in the front cover. Any ideas? Have had a bunch of them apart before -- just really strange to have it happen to more than one at once. Maybe I'm losing my mind during reassembly or not getting an o-ring on the cover quite right?
 

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is this a electric shift ?, manual shift ?. I really wish members would give the FULL details of their models !..lol.
 

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Both manuals.

The cooling system mechanism is the same between them, is it not?
cooling is the same, BUT THE ELETRIC SHIFT HAS A FEW MORE PLACES FOR WATER TO GET IN !..LOL. are you driving into water over the front drive shaft ?, if you are ?, then have a look at the oil seal where the front out put shaft is, see if it's leaking oil ?, reverse oil seal ?, shifting shaft oil seal ?. if your not driving in water over these places ?, then this is a coolant issue, and you have a leaking head gasket ?. I don't recall if the water pumps have a seal or not ?, sorry :).
 

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Both manuals.

The cooling system mechanism is the same between them, is it not?
completely the same whether it's a 420 FM, FE, FA or 2012+ Foreman 500. 2015+ Rubicon....Nothing is different. I could ask what color it is too, but it wouldn't help answer the question lol

Obviously something didn't go back together right, I never had them apart so I couldn't even guess what...No matter what it's going to have to come apart again to fix it. Did they have bad waterpump seals and you didn't know???? Were the motors apart or just the front covers removed?
 

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Both manuals.

The cooling system mechanism is the same between them, is it not?
completely the same whether it's a 420 FM, FE, FA or 2012+ Foreman 500. 2015+ Rubicon....Nothing is different. I could ask what color it is too, but it wouldn't help answer the question lol

Obviously something didn't go back together right, I never had them apart so I couldn't even guess what...No matter what it's going to have to come apart again to fix it. Did they have bad waterpump seals and you didn't know???? Were the motors apart or just the front covers removed?
do they have water pump seals ?, I don't remember ?. if they do, are they replaceable ?.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Off the top of my head, they have the o-rings in the crankcase that is the waterpath.

Shadetree, one of these bikes is a fresh rebuild that has not been out of my yard. The other one had been deep since the rebuild and definitely has a couple of questionable seals. I'd justify that one easily -- it's the second one that has been sitting in my yard that is the problem. I won't guarantee that it's not a head gasket -- but it seems highly unlikely -- as I've put probably 100 of them together and haven't had a head gasket problem since the 07 700 arctic cat that I was tightening to Cometic's specs -- and later found out needed to be a couple foot lbs tighter.

My guess is it has to be an issue in those o-rings or the water pumps themselves. But I'm just not sure. Front has to come back off on both either way, I guess.
 

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Off the top of my head, they have the o-rings in the crankcase that is the waterpath.

Shadetree, one of these bikes is a fresh rebuild that has not been out of my yard. The other one had been deep since the rebuild and definitely has a couple of questionable seals. I'd justify that one easily -- it's the second one that has been sitting in my yard that is the problem. I won't guarantee that it's not a head gasket -- but it seems highly unlikely -- as I've put probably 100 of them together and haven't had a head gasket problem since the 07 700 arctic cat that I was tightening to Cometic's specs -- and later found out needed to be a couple foot lbs tighter.

My guess is it has to be an issue in those o-rings or the water pumps themselves. But I'm just not sure. Front has to come back off on both either way, I guess.
jeep did a trx420 awhile back, new head gasket, and he had the same problem your having !. he replaced the head gasket again , and it never leaked coolant again ?, DON'T RULE THE HEAD GASKET OUT !.
 

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Are you running these engines long enough to get them hot enough to boil the combustion byproduct water out of the oil? Water is the result of burning gasoline in the presence of oxygen . . . .

Rick
 

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Both manuals.

The cooling system mechanism is the same between them, is it not?
completely the same whether it's a 420 FM, FE, FA or 2012+ Foreman 500. 2015+ Rubicon....Nothing is different. I could ask what color it is too, but it wouldn't help answer the question lol

Obviously something didn't go back together right, I never had them apart so I couldn't even guess what...No matter what it's going to have to come apart again to fix it. Did they have bad waterpump seals and you didn't know???? Were the motors apart or just the front covers removed?
do they have water pump seals ?, I don't remember ?. if they do, are they replaceable ?.
They would have to have some kind of seal, I've never replaced one so IDK? I do know the Rincon's had them, they weren't replaceable for a long time but now there are a couple companies selling the mechanical seals.
 

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As stated, the units will need to come apart and you might download the service manual from here and just go step by step to resolve either the oil ring and/or something else, i.e. gasket, etc.
 

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completely the same whether it's a 420 FM, FE, FA or 2012+ Foreman 500. 2015+ Rubicon....Nothing is different. I could ask what color it is too, but it wouldn't help answer the question lol

Obviously something didn't go back together right, I never had them apart so I couldn't even guess what...No matter what it's going to have to come apart again to fix it. Did they have bad waterpump seals and you didn't know???? Were the motors apart or just the front covers removed?
do they have water pump seals ?, I don't remember ?. if they do, are they replaceable ?.
They would have to have some kind of seal, I've never replaced one so IDK? I do know the Rincon's had them, they weren't replaceable for a long time but now there are a couple companies selling the mechanical seals.
hmmm...the cx500c's and the cx650c's also use a mechanical water pump seal in their motors, I wonder if it's the same seal ?..lol. they still use this very same seal on todays motorcycles !..lol.
 

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check to make sure the water pump shafts aren't actually worn out of spec causing the water to seep by.

Although rare, this happens on Polaris motors.
 

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I doubt its a head gasket issue, especially since both are doing it.

also, if it were me, I would just go ahead and replace the water pump shaft, along with the oil seal and water pump seal.

there's also a chance you are damaging the seal when your installing the front cover. It sounds like you've done a lot of em' but it doesn't take much to damage the seal when installing the cover.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Are you running these engines long enough to get them hot enough to boil the combustion byproduct water out of the oil? Water is the result of burning gasoline in the presence of oxygen . . . .

Rick
What I came up with:

The one that has been sitting in my yard -- I think this might be it. It hasn't been ran to temp since the rebuild except maybe once or twice. It has a slight green tint to the oil -- not really milky. I'm going to swap the automotive oil out of it anyway for some atv oil -- and will just keep an eye on it until I know for sure I have a problem.

The other one -- everything in the front cover seemed normal. The rear output shaft seal is leaking(not enough to put oil on the ground -- but enough to see it on the case -- and the front cover is leaking a little in the spot where a previous disassembler had used a screwdriver to pry(leaking about the same amount). Also had a little water in the bottom of the airbox -- so obviously the guy didn't have it sealed up perfectly -- and I'm guessing 95% of the water issue was the airbox water getting to the crankcase breather.
I replaced both front and rear output seals -- water pump mechanical seal -- and water pump oil seal. Also jabbed on some hardening silicone in the spots that had gashes in the case -- and sealed it up good. We will see on everything tomorrow.

Think I may have overreacted and/or had under confidence in myself. Just wasn't any clear mistakes there. At least not on my part.
 

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Are you running these engines long enough to get them hot enough to boil the combustion byproduct water out of the oil? Water is the result of burning gasoline in the presence of oxygen . . . .

Rick
What I came up with:

The one that has been sitting in my yard -- I think this might be it. It hasn't been ran to temp since the rebuild except maybe once or twice. It has a slight green tint to the oil -- not really milky. I'm going to swap the automotive oil out of it anyway for some atv oil -- and will just keep an eye on it until I know for sure I have a problem.

The other one -- everything in the front cover seemed normal. The rear output shaft seal is leaking(not enough to put oil on the ground -- but enough to see it on the case -- and the front cover is leaking a little in the spot where a previous disassembler had used a screwdriver to pry(leaking about the same amount). Also had a little water in the bottom of the airbox -- so obviously the guy didn't have it sealed up perfectly -- and I'm guessing 95% of the water issue was the airbox water getting to the crankcase breather.
I replaced both front and rear output seals -- water pump mechanical seal -- and water pump oil seal. Also jabbed on some hardening silicone in the spots that had gashes in the case -- and sealed it up good. We will see on everything tomorrow.

Think I may have overreacted and/or had under confidence in myself. Just wasn't any clear mistakes there. At least not on my part.
did those places that had the gashes not call for a gasket ?, and why didn't you dab some hondabond or yamabond on those gashes ?, I never use silicone....ever !.
 

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Are you running these engines long enough to get them hot enough to boil the combustion byproduct water out of the oil? Water is the result of burning gasoline in the presence of oxygen . . . .

Rick
What I came up with:

The one that has been sitting in my yard -- I think this might be it. It hasn't been ran to temp since the rebuild except maybe once or twice. It has a slight green tint to the oil -- not really milky. I'm going to swap the automotive oil out of it anyway for some atv oil -- and will just keep an eye on it until I know for sure I have a problem.

The other one -- everything in the front cover seemed normal. The rear output shaft seal is leaking(not enough to put oil on the ground -- but enough to see it on the case -- and the front cover is leaking a little in the spot where a previous disassembler had used a screwdriver to pry(leaking about the same amount). Also had a little water in the bottom of the airbox -- so obviously the guy didn't have it sealed up perfectly -- and I'm guessing 95% of the water issue was the airbox water getting to the crankcase breather.
I replaced both front and rear output seals -- water pump mechanical seal -- and water pump oil seal. Also jabbed on some hardening silicone in the spots that had gashes in the case -- and sealed it up good. We will see on everything tomorrow.

Think I may have overreacted and/or had under confidence in myself. Just wasn't any clear mistakes there. At least not on my part.
I want to touch base one something here ^^, your post says it wasn't sunk ?, and yet, you claim water was in the air box, correct ?, ok bro, you don't claim it was sunk, EVEN IF IT WAS UNDER/IN WATER !..LOL. there is no way in heck your going to make an atv motor 100% water proof !, I don't care what you do to it ?, IT WON'T KEEP WATER OUT OF IT !. your atv, your cash, our time !..lol.
 

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Well if the oil and coolant isn't coming OUT of the motor, fair to say the mud and water from the outside won't be getting in either. Unless I'm missing something about gaskets and seals.....
 
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