Have two quads here that are getting water in the oil after rebuilds/having the front of the motors off(clutches, etc). I'm guessing there is something I am missing/making a mistake on in the front cover. Any ideas? Have had a bunch of them apart before -- just really strange to have it happen to more than one at once. Maybe I'm losing my mind during reassembly or not getting an o-ring on the cover quite right?
420 Water in Oil(not sunk)...
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Joined
·
38,518 Posts
cooling is the same, BUT THE ELETRIC SHIFT HAS A FEW MORE PLACES FOR WATER TO GET IN !..LOL. are you driving into water over the front drive shaft ?, if you are ?, then have a look at the oil seal where the front out put shaft is, see if it's leaking oil ?, reverse oil seal ?, shifting shaft oil seal ?. if your not driving in water over these places ?, then this is a coolant issue, and you have a leaking head gasket ?. I don't recall if the water pumps have a seal or not ?, sorry
.
Joined
·
7,154 Posts
completely the same whether it's a 420 FM, FE, FA or 2012+ Foreman 500. 2015+ Rubicon....Nothing is different. I could ask what color it is too, but it wouldn't help answer the question lol
Obviously something didn't go back together right, I never had them apart so I couldn't even guess what...No matter what it's going to have to come apart again to fix it. Did they have bad waterpump seals and you didn't know???? Were the motors apart or just the front covers removed?
Joined
·
38,518 Posts
do they have water pump seals ?, I don't remember ?. if they do, are they replaceable ?.
Off the top of my head, they have the o-rings in the crankcase that is the waterpath.
Shadetree, one of these bikes is a fresh rebuild that has not been out of my yard. The other one had been deep since the rebuild and definitely has a couple of questionable seals. I'd justify that one easily -- it's the second one that has been sitting in my yard that is the problem. I won't guarantee that it's not a head gasket -- but it seems highly unlikely -- as I've put probably 100 of them together and haven't had a head gasket problem since the 07 700 arctic cat that I was tightening to Cometic's specs -- and later found out needed to be a couple foot lbs tighter.
My guess is it has to be an issue in those o-rings or the water pumps themselves. But I'm just not sure. Front has to come back off on both either way, I guess.
Shadetree, one of these bikes is a fresh rebuild that has not been out of my yard. The other one had been deep since the rebuild and definitely has a couple of questionable seals. I'd justify that one easily -- it's the second one that has been sitting in my yard that is the problem. I won't guarantee that it's not a head gasket -- but it seems highly unlikely -- as I've put probably 100 of them together and haven't had a head gasket problem since the 07 700 arctic cat that I was tightening to Cometic's specs -- and later found out needed to be a couple foot lbs tighter.
My guess is it has to be an issue in those o-rings or the water pumps themselves. But I'm just not sure. Front has to come back off on both either way, I guess.
Joined
·
38,518 Posts
jeep did a trx420 awhile back, new head gasket, and he had the same problem your having !. he replaced the head gasket again , and it never leaked coolant again ?, DON'T RULE THE HEAD GASKET OUT !.
Joined
·
2,608 Posts
Are you running these engines long enough to get them hot enough to boil the combustion byproduct water out of the oil? Water is the result of burning gasoline in the presence of oxygen . . . .
Rick
Rick
Joined
·
7,154 Posts
They would have to have some kind of seal, I've never replaced one so IDK? I do know the Rincon's had them, they weren't replaceable for a long time but now there are a couple companies selling the mechanical seals.
Joined
·
1,419 Posts
As stated, the units will need to come apart and you might download the service manual from here and just go step by step to resolve either the oil ring and/or something else, i.e. gasket, etc.
Joined
·
38,518 Posts
hmmm...the cx500c's and the cx650c's also use a mechanical water pump seal in their motors, I wonder if it's the same seal ?..lol. they still use this very same seal on todays motorcycles !..lol.
Joined
·
7,154 Posts
CX's were older..probably different part number although that doesn't always mean they are different. This is the seal for the 420's, also fits the Rincon's as well although they don't list it. It's a big secret at Honda, they want you to buy the whole pump on the Rinny. lol
19217-MAL-300 SEAL, MECHANICAL $31.77
19217-MAL-300 SEAL, MECHANICAL $31.77
Joined
·
7,361 Posts
I doubt its a head gasket issue, especially since both are doing it.
also, if it were me, I would just go ahead and replace the water pump shaft, along with the oil seal and water pump seal.
there's also a chance you are damaging the seal when your installing the front cover. It sounds like you've done a lot of em' but it doesn't take much to damage the seal when installing the cover.
also, if it were me, I would just go ahead and replace the water pump shaft, along with the oil seal and water pump seal.
there's also a chance you are damaging the seal when your installing the front cover. It sounds like you've done a lot of em' but it doesn't take much to damage the seal when installing the cover.
What I came up with:
The one that has been sitting in my yard -- I think this might be it. It hasn't been ran to temp since the rebuild except maybe once or twice. It has a slight green tint to the oil -- not really milky. I'm going to swap the automotive oil out of it anyway for some atv oil -- and will just keep an eye on it until I know for sure I have a problem.
The other one -- everything in the front cover seemed normal. The rear output shaft seal is leaking(not enough to put oil on the ground -- but enough to see it on the case -- and the front cover is leaking a little in the spot where a previous disassembler had used a screwdriver to pry(leaking about the same amount). Also had a little water in the bottom of the airbox -- so obviously the guy didn't have it sealed up perfectly -- and I'm guessing 95% of the water issue was the airbox water getting to the crankcase breather.
I replaced both front and rear output seals -- water pump mechanical seal -- and water pump oil seal. Also jabbed on some hardening silicone in the spots that had gashes in the case -- and sealed it up good. We will see on everything tomorrow.
Think I may have overreacted and/or had under confidence in myself. Just wasn't any clear mistakes there. At least not on my part.
Joined
·
38,518 Posts
did those places that had the gashes not call for a gasket ?, and why didn't you dab some hondabond or yamabond on those gashes ?, I never use silicone....ever !.
Joined
·
38,518 Posts
I want to touch base one something here ^^, your post says it wasn't sunk ?, and yet, you claim water was in the air box, correct ?, ok bro, you don't claim it was sunk, EVEN IF IT WAS UNDER/IN WATER !..LOL. there is no way in heck your going to make an atv motor 100% water proof !, I don't care what you do to it ?, IT WON'T KEEP WATER OUT OF IT !. your atv, your cash, our time !..lol.
Why is there automotive oil in there? You know that will ruin your clutches....right?
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!