[Adamz712003]

My 96 300 4x4 has a problem with the starter coming on while the engine is running. Turning off the key does not stop it, sometimes hitting the starter button will. The most consistent way to stop it is to disconnect the battery. I have put two different solenoids on since this problem started thinking the problem was with it, but the problem still exists. I am at a loss for where to look next, and appreciate any suggestions.

 

[ET 300]

I had a similar problem on a tractor. The key would not disengage the starter. Turned out to be a wiring problem. Vibration wore the insulation on a starter circuit wire until it made contact with the frame providing a path to ground which kept the starter engaged. Easy fix once I found it.

I suspect you have a wiring issue. My 94 model may be wired like your 96. The only place I see where this could occur, eliminating the starter switch and ignition switch, is by the relay/battery area.

Disconnect the cable going to the starter. Connect a 12 volt light bulb to that cable and to a good ground. Make sure the connections are well insulated so you don’t short anything. Now try to duplicate the problem. When you press the starter switch the light bulb turns on. When light bulb stays on after releasing the starter switch, that is the same as if the starter stays engaged. Now leave it like that and start moving wires around the relay/battery area. See if that light goes off. If it goes off you need to check the wiring in that area. Good luck. Let us know if you find anything.

 

[fishfiles]

OEM Honda solenoid or e-bay $5 specials ? Could be in the starter button switch

 

[Adamz712003]

I had wondered about a short. I have tried both oem and aftermarket solenoids. Looks like I’ll be digging in further than I had hoped. Will update as I find things.

 

[ktriebol]

"My 96 300 4x4 has a problem with the starter coming on while the engine is running. Turning off the key does not stop it, sometimes hitting the starter button will."

I just need some clarification. You say turning off the key does not stop it, but when you turn the key off, does the engine stop running?

 

[Adamz712003]

It does stop the ignition, but the starter keeps going

 

[Adamz712003]

Also, the starter does not keep running when you start it, it kicks in again on its own while running

 

[fishfiles]

that sounds like it must be the solenoid sticking , are you hooking it up backwards on the two big wires

 

[ktriebol]

Power to energize the solenoid (and make the starter run) comes in at the yellow/red wire at the solenoid. But the ignition switch has to be on in order for the yellow/red wire to be live. Since you confirmed that the engine stops when the ignition switch is turned off, then there should also be no power on the yellow/red wire with the ignition switch off, and the solenoid should be de-energized. But since the starter continues to run with the ignition switch off, that points toward a sticking plunger inside of the solenoid as was mentioned earlier. You can be even more certain of this by disconnecting the yellow/red wire at the solenoid while the engine is running. If the starter still keeps running, it must be caused by a stuck internal plunger. In that case, you will have to buy a good quality solenoid. It is not unusual for cheap solenoids to have the sticking plunger problem. Even in your case, you bought two of them with the same problem.

 

[Goober]

as you may know the starter circuit is basically a two circuit system.
The starter switch circuit is the low amp control circuit

The starter motor circuit is the high amp controlled circuit.

The starter solenoid is a double pole single throw relay mechanism linking the two. The starter button completes the first pole control circuit, energizing the solenoid. The solenoid closes the high amp side (second pole), powering the starter. The starter circuit is closed (powered) as longer as the solenoid is energized, or closed.

So, if your solenoid is closing randomly, it is thru being energized or failing internal mechanism. You need to know if your starter button is closing inadvertently or you have some other current pathway energizing the solenoid.

Did you install an oem solenoid?
My bet then is the button is sticking

As ^^^ mentioned above if starter continues to run with ignition switched off, then there is a problem with the wiring of the control circuit

 

[hodge5]

as you may know the starter circuit is basically a two circuit system.
The starter switch circuit is the low amp control circuit

The starter motor circuit is the high amp controlled circuit.

The starter solenoid is a double pole single throw relay mechanism linking the two. The starter button completes the first pole control circuit, energizing the solenoid. The solenoid closes the high amp side (second pole), powering the starter. The starter circuit is closed (powered) as longer as the solenoid is energized, or closed.

So, if your solenoid is closing randomly, it is thru being energized or failing internal mechanism. You need to know if your starter button is closing inadvertently or you have some other current pathway energizing the solenoid.

Did you install an oem solenoid?
My bet then is the button is sticking

As ^^^ mentioned above if starter continues to run with ignition switched off, then there is a problem with the wiring of the control circuit

"I have tried both oem and aftermarket solenoids"

Since it happens some time after the starting process, I think that rules out the solenoid (especially since both OEM and aftermarket have been tried).

 

[fishfiles]

when it sticks again , if you were to unplug the small wires at the solenoid and it stops spinning then you would know that it is voltage on the trigger wire to the coil when it is not suppose to be there , if it don't then the solenoid is sticking ---- I wonder if the diode would have any effect on whats happing to you

like I mentioned before , is the solenoid turned around 180 degrees and you have the two big wireson backwards

 

[ET 300]

Adamz does this problem happen only in neutral with neutral light on? Does the problem continue when you put it in gear? At what point in the starting procedure do you know the starter is still engaged?
.

 

[Adamz712003]

It happens in neutral, it happens while in gear, it happens anywhere from 1 minute after starting, to ten. Once the motor starts, everything seems fine, and after some time has elapsed you hear the starter running/grinding and then it becomes a fight to figure out how to turn off

 

[ET 300]

It happens in neutral, it happens while in gear, it happens anywhere from 1 minute after starting, to ten. Once the motor starts, everything seems fine, and after some time has elapsed you hear the starter running/grinding and then it becomes a fight to figure out how to turn off

Gosh, that really is an interesting answer. What it means to me is that for the first minute to 10 minutes your starting circuit is working as it should. Then at some point, since you can’t stop it with the ignition switch, the power circuit to the solenoid/relay is getting bypassed. When you put it in gear, your solenoid/relay ground circuit should go out thru the neutral switch rendering the relay inoperative. Yet, something is powering that relay causing it to engage the starter. Since it happens in gear, it is finding power somewhere and also an alternate path to ground. My thinking

Question is what and where. I’m still leaning towards a short in the battery compartment. That iis the common place for these circuits. I’m only looking at the starting circuit. Will look at the whole system circuit to see if there is an answer there. This is really a puzzle.

Does this happen while the unit is stopped? Or only when the unit is moving?

 

[ktriebol]

Adamz, did you try disconnecting the yellow/red wire at the solenoid when the engine is running to see if the starter motor stops?

 

[ET 300]

Ok I’ve looked at the whole wiring schematic. There are 2 primary locations where a short may occur that may produce this failure. In the battery compartment and also in the wiring connector box and switch area in front by handlebars. This requires removing front fender. Also any wiring runs between those 2 areas or immediate vicinity. If you park the ATV in an area where mice can get in, they can cause problems. I’ve had mice chew my tractor instrument panel apart where I had to rewire the area. They are a pain.

One quick test is for the ground circuit. Turn ignition on look for a neutral light. Then place in gear. Neutral light should go out. Press starter button. Starter should NOT engage. If it does you found a ground problem.

Also, I would not leave that starter connected while you troubleshoot the system. At some point this starter problem may cause some damage which may be expensive. I would troubleshoot with a light. Place it right in front of you. Any time it lights up without input from you, the problem exists. You can kick start the unit for engine runs. Hope this helps.

This is all based on my opinion it is an electrical problem. It will take some troubleshooting. Keep us posted as to what you find.

 

[Melatv]

Hi: Have you checked the Diode -- look for corrosion this maybe the problem.

 

[LedFTed]

can the starter button, keep the starter engaged, when the key is shut off ? curious.....

 

[ET 300]

can the starter button, keep the starter engaged, when the key is shut off ? curious.....

No. In the starter circuit when you turn the key on it feeds the neutral light and the open starter switch. With tranny in neutral the circuit is: key switch, neutral light, thru diode to ground thru neutral switch. Starter switch get power but no circuit until pressed. In the TO START the circuit is: Key switch, pressed starter switch, starter relay, thru diode to ground thru the neutral switch.

With tranny in gear the neutral switch opens killing any path to ground. Power still goes to one side of light and starter switch and stops there as there is no path to ground.

When you turn the key off, power goes from battery to key switch and stops there.

Clear as mud. LOL. Hope I’m clear.


In this case the starter works normal for 1-10 minutes. Then starter engages and cannot be turned off until he disconnects the battery. For that stater to engage, the relay must activate. It connects the battery to the starter. For the relay to activate it needs battery power in and a path to ground. Mechanically the relay is spring loaded off, I think, and electrically activated on. Just an electrical mystery my opinion.