[wjpelka]

2011 Rancher with a small hay wagon and 2 bales of hay, going up a slight incline, asphalt driveway with a little snow. Starts bucking in 2 Wheel Drive. Shift to 4 Wheel Drive and the bucking continues. Drop the trailer and it still has problems. Some where I read that one of the many Honda's has an adjustment for the clutch. Can't remember which one and can't find any mention in the Service Manual. Manual talks about oil pressure at a port that should be 74-78#'s. I shut the key off and tried it again and didn't seem to have any issues, but I didn't have the trailer on it, just plowing snow up the hill. NO Fault codes, but thought that maybe the drive shaft coupling might be spinning. Then remembered about a clutch adjustment. Book talks about oil pressure and thought about not wanting to go into 4 Wheel Drive. Also thought about speed sensors and Throttle Position sensor, but again I wasn't getting any Fault Codes.

Any body have any Ideas? Full Charged Battery. 3/4 full of new fuel, oil level good.

 

[mrbb]

OK when you say BUCKING do you mean wheel HOPPING, or as if trans is slipping

NEXT HOW Big a bales of hay here are we talking?

them BIG round 600-7800 lb bales or small square one's about 80-100 lbs?

HOW Much did the hay wagon weight?(mine weight about a 600-800+ lbs each empty on the small one's)

I am guessing you know towing OEM ratings(LOL, NOT many follow this, me included so NOT bashing)" for his atv is only about 1,000 lbs
BUT at same time going well PAST this, you can and have to think things can break!


and you were going UP HILL, on pavement with decent traction
I am sure its possible for something internal to have failed
but if its working good now, NO trailer
then that sounds like its OK
BACK to Angle sensor, with that load and the hill, maybe that was the issue?

In the service manual, NOT OWNERS manual., it should say HOW to adjust the clutch or NOT
I know foot shifts can be adjusted easily, NOT so sure on the E shifts as never owned one!

 

[alloutdoors]

Do you know if the front wheels are engaged?

 

[alloutdoors]

If the front wheels are not pulling and you didn't overload it as mrbb ask, then I would take the unit out and try engaging/disengaging the unit a few times on a flat surface and validate the issue (front or otherwise).

 

[misterclean59]

Could you mistake the rev limiter for bucking? If you are revving it up for power you may be surprised how quickly the rev limiter will kick in.

 

[wjpelka]

More Info...

The neighbor had it in 2 Wheel drive and it started to act up. Move into 4 wheel and it continued. Removed the 150# hay wagon with almost 1 80# bale on it, from the hitch and left it. Moved the Rancher towards the barn and it was still wheel hopping like a slipping clutch. Got to barn, turned it off and let it sit for 10 mins. I brought the wagon/trailer up with my Kawasaki Brute Force 650i. Told the neighbor that I was going to take it for a spin and see if I could make it fail again or to see if it was STILL in failure mode. Drove good up and down the 1/2 mile long driveway. Did all of this in 4 Wheel Drive. No issues, yet no load on it. Pushed some snow, which added "load" to the engine/drive train. NO issues. Told the neighbor that I was going to post on the forum and pour through the Service Manual and look for a clutch adjustment procedure. Could not find one. I am almost suspecting that the Brains got confused during this process and when it sat for that 10 minutes, everything reset. I put it on the Battery Maintainer and left it till tomorrow. We'll see what it does then. I am not going to be around most of the day, but when I get back I'll get an update...

Thanks all for the rapid responses and ideas.

 

[mrbb]

very unlikely for the brains to reset from just sitting a few minutes
MOST times, you need to disconnect battery for a few hrs or longer

what the above said about maybe hitting the rev limiter could be possible
maybe load was more than the HP the machine had(only about 28 hp here, your brute force is twice that or more )

just saying,

 

[alloutdoors]

Now I'm curious what gear the neighbor was attempting to pull the load because it appears all okay now, hum.. hopefully all okay

 

[shadetree]

OK when you say BUCKING do you mean wheel HOPPING, or as if trans is slipping

NEXT HOW Big a bales of hay here are we talking?

them BIG round 600-7800 lb bales or small square one's about 80-100 lbs?

HOW Much did the hay wagon weight?(mine weight about a 600-800+ lbs each empty on the small one's)

I am guessing you know towing OEM ratings(LOL, NOT many follow this, me included so NOT bashing)" for his atv is only about 1,000 lbs
BUT at same time going well PAST this, you can and have to think things can break!


and you were going UP HILL, on pavement with decent traction
I am sure its possible for something internal to have failed
but if its working good now, NO trailer
then that sounds like its OK
BACK to Angle sensor, with that load and the hill, maybe that was the issue?

In the service manual, NOT OWNERS manual., it should say HOW to adjust the clutch or NOT
I know foot shifts can be adjusted easily, NOT so sure on the E shifts as never owned one!

ES models have the same clutch adjustment as the manual shift models, no difference as far as the clutches go ?, only difference is one uses buttons and a electric motor to change gears ?, and the manual shift uses your foot to change gears ?, thats it !. they both have an adjustable clutch on them.

 

[johnnycombo]

My buddy does the same thing, he says "i almost didn't make that hill, had to put it in four wheel drive", My response is always, it's a hill it's muddy and you have four wheel drive, why wouldn't you use it at the bottom?
If your spinning your rear wheels and your front axle is at a different speed or not moving or going backwards, things just aren't going to work the way you imagine.
Anticipate what you are going to need and engage the four wheel drive when not moving or when the axles are at the same speed and it may need a few rotations to engage.

 

[johnnycombo]

I always liked the saying i found on this forum, Check the nut between the handle bars and the seat!

 

[wjpelka]

Wow...

Lots of this makes sense. My neighbor is 80, has owned this machine since he bought it new in 2011. Has about 2600 miles and has only ever been on the driveway, pulling a little 180# trailer with 2 80# bales of hay on it. I replaced battery in June 2016. Put a shift angle sensor on it in July 2016. Had shifting problems and I think those are fixed. A few times I have found the Rancher in 2 Wheel Drive when there has been snow on the ground. He had it start hopping when he was driving it up the hill in Reverse (Forward gears not working due to weird Transmission Problem). I put my snow plow blade onto his and started to push him with my Kawasaki Brute Force 650I 4x4. BUT then I started to hop. I went to the barn to get a rope to tow him with, realized that I had been in 2 Wheel Drive. So we do understand the issues, but when the machine starts acting up, he just starts moving levers and pushing buttons.

The most recent problem with the hopping, The Question of "What Gear was he in?", and "Hitting the Limiter" are very possible. I wasn't watching what he was doing and I had ear plugs in.

SHADETREE: Do you happen to have a reference to adjusting the Clutch. I can't seem to find it in the service manual for the Rancher 2009-2011?

 

[Melatv]

Hi: There is no clutch adjustment on that bike.

 

[wjpelka]

Darn...

Saw about the clutch on one of Honda's Models. I guess its good to see there isn't one. I will watch the machine and see what happens. It is a great little machine. Some are issues that are operator error and some are small glitches that just happen.

I was disappointed in Honda's engineering of the Transmission with the shift angle sensor. It is so prone to failure that the skid plate has an opening to allow it to be changed easily.

Thanks for all the help and I will post more, IF it fails again...

 

[shadetree]

what year/ full make model is this for a rancher ?, because I found the 2011 trx420FPE that has a clutch adjustment that shows on the front case cover.

 

[wjpelka]

Oh!!!

That's interesting. My neighbor has the 2011 Rancher TRX420 FPA. It has Auto Manual Transmission, Power Steering and a lever operated 4 Wheel Drive. I'll take a look at the front cover in the parts breakdown on Rocky Mountain's Web Site. Thanks... I'll also check the manual and see. I don't think it covers the FPE version, but I'll look...

 

[shadetree]

That's interesting. My neighbor has the 2011 Rancher TRX420 FPA. It has Auto Manual Transmission, Power Steering and a lever operated 4 Wheel Drive. I'll take a look at the front cover in the parts breakdown on Rocky Mountain's Web Site. Thanks... I'll also check the manual and see. I don't think it covers the FPE version, but I'll look...

I don't think the hondamatics have a clutch adjustment ?. but the trx420FPE, shows to have a clutch adjustment, as it's a 4wd, power steering, electric shift, the '11 trx420FPA is a 4wd, power steering, automatic transmission , which I doubt have an adjustment for the clutch ??.

 

[wjpelka]

I checked it out...

FPE does have an adjustment for the clutch on the front case, the FPB does not. The Rancher ran fine yesterday, so it will be wait and see...

I DO like the Rancher, but it sure isn't a simple machine, either Electrical or Mechanical.

I have a 2006 and 2009 Kawasaki Brute Force 650i 4x4 in Camo and I will be getting a 2015 Kawasaki Teryx4 4x4 with Camo this Thursday. 1500 Miles. That should be a fun one...