[MrC.]

Hi everyone, I'm new here.

I picked up a 350hr 2007 Honda trx400 4x4. with a no start condition.
the dash lights up the starter turns over and it has good spark. put in a new NGK plug,
I cleaned the carb (twice now), flushed the tank, checked tank flow and still no start, it just spins over. It did backfire once (a little starter fluid)
I have ran the self diagnostic and came up with code 12 and 6. also the diff lock light flashes 6 times, then pause and repeats, I am not sure what that refers to.

Code 12 and 6- Following the troubleshooting guide in the manual it seams to point to the ecm being bad.
I have proper voltage at the ecm and continuity between the "natural" plug and ecm plug.
all buttons seem to work (kill switch, ecs/auto, level sensor). the ecm was very muddy, but the plug connections were clean, I am guessing the ecm took on water. Previous owner said he drove it into the his garage, and it never started again.

Before I order a new ECM (where is the best place to get one?) is there any other test I can run to make sure mine is bad. I am very surprised that with fuel and spark it will not attempt to start. nothing just spin, spin, spin.

I pulled the valve inspection covers, verified TDC and the valves are moving, I will pick up a feeler gauge today and check the valve lash.

Is there away to bypass or trick some of the sensors to verify start then ad them back one at a time?

Thanks for your help
MrC.

 

[shadetree]

did you run a compression test ?. partzilla or rocky mountain atv is the best place for oem parts. if it won't fire and run for a couple sec's off starting fluid ?, this tells me its out of time ?, or not enough compression ?. AND DONT EVER BELEIVE IT RAN WHEN I LAST PARKED IT CRAP !!!!!..LOL. p.s. do not buy a ECM from amazon or ebay !!!, all they sell is china aftermarket junk !!!!!!.

 

[MrC.]

Hi Shadetree, thanks for the quick reply.

I will run the compression test tonight along with checking the valves. What should the compression be in lbs?
I set it at TDC per the inspection hole T- lined up, verified the piston is at the top of the stroke, but could not verify if it was the compression stroke or any other stroke.
The case has been split, there is gray sealant at the case joint line. Previous owner said he paid a shop to install a clutch last year, so that made sense.

I cant figure out why it doesn't pop or make some attempt at running on starter fluid, something just doesn't add up. spark and fuel should make boom. but not in this case.
I pulled the new plug back out, it is damp with fuel, not dripping. I know it has good spark by testing the plug against the exhaust. Which makes me think the ECM is working since it has spark.

I set the T- timing mark and verified both valves were closed and felt slightly loose, also looking down the spark plug hole I can see the top of the piston. I am hoping for either badly adjust valves or an ECM.

Unfortunately you cant believe anything a seller says.
MrC.

 

[shadetree]

with decompression effected 78-121, without decompression effected 178-206.

 

[shadetree]

gonna send you a pm, green box, top right corner, you wont be able to send a reply, but you can see my post.

 

[shadetree]

and those numbers ^^^^..are psi..not lbs..lol.

 

[MrC.]

Report
I Set valve lash to .006 no change still will not run. Attempted to run a compression test but both my thread in adaptors for my gauge were to large (automotive) so I could not verify compression.
I will look for an adaptor tomrrow.
Per a conversation with shadetree (thank you) I will make plans to pull the front cover and check to see if the timing chain has jumped.

MrC.

 

[shadetree]

Report
I Set valve lash to .006 no change still will not run. Attempted to run a compression test but both my thread in adaptors for my gauge were to large (automotive) so I could not verify compression.
I will look for an adaptor tomrrow.
Per a conversation with shadetree (thank you) I will make plans to pull the front cover and check to see if the timing chain has jumped.

MrC.

yw. you really need a good compression tester to test compression. like I told you on the phone, timing is off on cam ?, or you rings/cylinder is bad ?, or you have a bent valve ?. if your valves are bent ?, chances are your piston is bad as well ?. this is why you need a good compression tester to confirm this.

 

[MrC.]

Report.
I have no, zero, nada, zilch compression. Actually I have about 1 lbs.
So now what? What does this tell us. Timeing jumped and a valve is open and no compression is being made? Or
The rings and so worn it can't make Any compression?

So do I pull the head and check the rings? Or do I rip the front of the engine off and check the timing chain?

I really wasn't expecting zero compression

MrC.

 

[MrC.]

ok, Guys I am back.

I found a used head complete with guides and valves for $150 from Steve's used atv parts in Tifton Ga.
Ebay- a new std piston, rings, pin and clips it also included a gasket set for $105.

After installation, and valve adjustment, carb and tank cleaned she fired up after about 3 revolutions and runs smooth, no smoke! no blow by.
feeling froggy, I went for a short spirited ride, trans seems soft, pulls strong (no slipping) but spongy shifts (auto) in manual mode it shift firm and consistent.
Only thing I noticed was the fan did not turn on. I checked it with a light it is getting power but the ecm is not sending ground to it, I tested the fan with some
jumper wires and it does work.

Q. How many minutes of running does it take for the fan to come on? I don't want it to run hot. How can I test it other than letting it get hot?

Shadetree- thanks for the help
MrC.

 

[MrC.]

I will be selling this unit ASAP after a good clean up and get the fan straighten out, weather its an issue or not.
I did pick up a ........

1998 Honda 450es 4x4 running.
needs carb cleaned. tires, and brakes.

 

[MrC.]

EDIT, I cant edit my earlier post, I guess it would be helpful to others why I had no compression.

I pulled the head and found a fragment of the valve seat had broken off and was being hit by the piston, it didn't happen long, since there is no way it could run like that.
this is why it would not hit/start on starting fluid either. and why I had zero compression!. I got lucky the cylinder was not scared. I did not mic the cylinder (no mic), I played it safe and went with a standard size replacement piston and ring pack. after several starts and about 20 minutes of run time, I am happy to report NO SMOKE, I will say the valve train is a little ticky, I checked and set the valves 3 times to .006, I guess these are just ticky.
all and all I was riding it after only $300 and about 8 hrs work.
Now its time to detail it and sell it.

MrC

 

[shadetree]

you must like punishment ?, you turned right around and bought a es project !..lol. oh, and your welcome ! .

 

[MrC.]

Yes I did lol, buy another ES, but its a manual trans not a Honda-matic
The all-time 4x4 may be a bigger issue, we will see. I didn't realize that until after I got it home and on jack stands, I spun the front tire and the back ones turns too. I was
surprised to say the least. It runs and drives as is, and was a bargain, I just had to buy it.

Here in Florida good used Hondas are hard to come by, you cant be to picky if you want to ride.
Ideally, I could find a selectable 4x4 with a manual trans and 450cc range, but those don't exist
where I live unless it's been run over by a Mack truck and left in the bottom of the lake.

I have read there is a kit to make this one 2wd or 4x4, if it runs and drives like I hope it does, I might
do that. I have always had 2wd sport atvs, I have ridden utv's but never owned one.

MrC.

Shadetree- I am a little disappointed in you, did you look at the photos? there are quite of few treasures in the background of that half of the shop, I just knew you would have liked to see.

 

[oldmxrider]

Can not see the old 2 door car very good 54 Chevy ?

The Honda-matic that I got running out of junk when dialed in had near seamless shifting in the auto mode ! Loved it ! Was always in the correct gear for what ever I was doing!

The ES shift are great machines they have sold tons of them ! Not that hard to troubleshoot when and if problems happen.

I have not found the full time for wheel a problem for Me on My current '01 Rancher 350 that was drug out of a barn and loaded on a trailer with a front end loader, one owner beat to hell and back machine two weeks and $350 in parts and labor of love, it works like a NEW ONE and looks pretty damn good !

 

[MrC.]

Close OldMXRider
2 door 1953 chevy 210.
Also my 100 year old anvil gets a few comments as well.

I was going to keep the 400FA but found this 450es and it seems like it was so lightly used it should be a great bike for a long time.
I rebuilt the carb and installed a new Master cylinder w/ hand lever, I will fire it up tomorrow. I am waiting on tires now.
I found some crazy cheap V treads on amazon, we will see how they hold up.

MrC.

 

[shadetree]

Yes I did lol, buy another ES, but its a manual trans not a Honda-matic
The all-time 4x4 may be a bigger issue, we will see. I didn't realize that until after I got it home and on jack stands, I spun the front tire and the back ones turns too. I was
surprised to say the least. It runs and drives as is, and was a bargain, I just had to buy it.

Here in Florida good used Hondas are hard to come by, you cant be to picky if you want to ride.
Ideally, I could find a selectable 4x4 with a manual trans and 450cc range, but those don't exist
where I live unless it's been run over by a Mack truck and left in the bottom of the lake.

I have read there is a kit to make this one 2wd or 4x4, if it runs and drives like I hope it does, I might
do that. I have always had 2wd sport atvs, I have ridden utv's but never owned one.

MrC.

Shadetree- I am a little disappointed in you, did you look at the photos? there are quite of few treasures in the background of that half of the shop, I just knew you would have liked to see.

yep, I seen those goodies, but when I seen that es trx450 ?, I ran away !..lol.

 

[MrC.]

WOW big news
I have finished the 07 Rancher 400FA, that was fun, I rode it about 20 minutes hard today and another 10 just putting around, the new battery helped the flashing 4x4 light, now it only comes on when in 4x4 which works I tested it on a large dirt pile I have. I posted an ad on CL today selling it.

I want to thank this forum, As some of you know I picked up a basket case 98 foreman 450es. Using the manuals downloads and my phone, I have rebuilt the carb, traced the yellow wire w/ red tracer to a faulty/dirty relay, I cleaned it and now the switches work perfectly to shift gears, I also used the manual for putting the oil filter in correctly. Thank you all, I hope I can pay it forward.

So whats next, the 07 goes to a local auction Saturday, I hope to sell it there or on CL.
The 98 is my new toy, I have verified all the systems work and work well. I do need a display this one is busted (anyone have one) Plans are front disc brake conversion, 2 inch wheel spacer, new tires, maybe a 2 inch lift and then a 2wd / 4x4 conversion. I have said before I normally ride sport bikes, I hope I can get this 450 to have a sporty feel. Otherwise I may be looking for something like a 400ex. Anyways I'm off looking for my next flip.

Shadetree thanks again, I know you advise against the ES models, but this one seems ok and until I can find the unicorn manual trans, this will have to do.

MrC.

 

[shadetree]

WOW big news
I have finished the 07 Rancher 400FA, that was fun, I rode it about 20 minutes hard today and another 10 just putting around, the new battery helped the flashing 4x4 light, now it only comes on when in 4x4 which works I tested it on a large dirt pile I have. I posted an ad on CL today selling it.

I want to thank this forum, As some of you know I picked up a basket case 98 foreman 450es. Using the manuals downloads and my phone, I have rebuilt the carb, traced the yellow wire w/ red tracer to a faulty/dirty relay, I cleaned it and now the switches work perfectly to shift gears, I also used the manual for putting the oil filter in correctly. Thank you all, I hope I can pay it forward.

So whats next, the 07 goes to a local auction Saturday, I hope to sell it there or on CL.
The 98 is my new toy, I have verified all the systems work and work well. I do need a display this one is busted (anyone have one) Plans are front disc brake conversion, 2 inch wheel spacer, new tires, maybe a 2 inch lift and then a 2wd / 4x4 conversion. I have said before I normally ride sport bikes, I hope I can get this 450 to have a sporty feel. Otherwise I may be looking for something like a 400ex. Anyways I'm off looking for my next flip.

Shadetree thanks again, I know you advise against the ES models, but this one seems ok and until I can find the unicorn manual trans, this will have to do.

MrC.

just a heads up: your looking at about 300 bucks to do the front disk brake conversion, you will need a front diff out of a late model '02-'04 trx450fm to do the ele 2wd-4wd conversion. the drive shaft will have to be custom cut to length to fit between the front diff and motor's front output shaft. the frame cradle will have to be notched out for the front diff to fit. you will need a 4wd lens for the 4wd to show on dash, as well as a light socket. you will need the 2wd-4wd throttle control switch from a late model '02-'04 trx450fm to turn the 2wd-4wd on the front diff., and then you will need a gizmo from @retro for the front diff to work. in other words, you got your work cut out for you if you take this on ?!..lol. as for the meter/display ?, just buy a new one, don't take chances on a used meter/display !. you should take a look at my project build in the build section, '99 trx450S build, I show a lot of progress on this.

 

[MrC.]

450es

Shadetree- that sound expensive and problematic.
what about this product?
https://www.extremesnorkels.com/pro...u1HZwSCVDinQI2mg4qva05cEGQYsAn6RoCx5AQAvD_BwE

it says it fits my 1998 foreman 450ES unless I am missing something, it does not mention anything about different differentials or custom shafts.
what you thoughts on it. cost is high but it would really loosen the ol girl up.
MrC.

Speaking of the 450es, I got to ride her today, climbed great front pulls hard when really getting on it. only issue is it bogs a little on take off, if you stab it, once out of the hole she really moves pulls hard mid and top end.
I adjusted the pilot screw it did help but not perfect.

Here is how she looks now!