[lateonthebrakes]

https://youtu.be/psBeQn1VG-U

I need some help with anyone familiar with common issues with hard shifting on a 2003 Honda TRX350TM. I had some issues that progressed from hard shifting to the shifter not springing back to the middle position to the bike not wanting to shift into any gear beyond first. I have the engine out of the ATV and both the front and rear crankcase covers removed. The symptoms and steps I’ve taken are listed below.

•Hard shifting
•Rolling forward while idling in gear
•Attempted to adjust clutch
oFound jam nut seized
oUsed penetrating oil, nut splitter, and impact gun to remove
oCleaned male threads, applied anti-seize, and installed stainless 8 mm nut
•Difficulty shifting into the next gear
•Found shifter was not springing back to middle position
•Could shift if manually moved shifter down after shifting up and shifting up again
•Assumed shifter return spring damaged when overcompensating for hard shifting
•Removed front and rear engine cases
•Front case pushed upwards when fasteners were removed
•No damage found on the return spring
•Shifter began springing back to middle position
•Attempting to shift through gears results in normal N to 1st shift
•1st to 2nd gear shift results in cog getting hung up on point of gear instead of in valley
•Cannot progress to 2nd or make 2nd to 3rd gear shift
•1st to N and N to R found to be normal
•After continuous cycling able to get hung up and go gear point to point instead of valley to valley on 1st to 2nd
•Continuous cycling returns valley to valley shifts but still gets hung going to 2nd

 

[shadetree]

I would say you need to do a full inspection of your shift drum, and all parts connected to it. start at the front, make sure the bolt in the center is tight ?. check the wheel that ratchets in between the star wheel, make sure the wheel and spring is good ?. if that all looks good ?, go to the rear of the engine, have a look inside, and see if the shifting shaft is moving the tang part on the end ?, and its moving the long shifting shaft that comes out the front of the engine to the shifting parts ?. check the end of your shift drum, see if it is snapped off ?, very common for your year model !. if all that checks out good ?, then it's time to split the cases, and get to the shift drum to inspect it, and all 3 shift forks. but I will bet your problem is somewhere in your shifting in the front ?, or back ?, or your not adjusting your clutch correctly ?, the cover should not move upwards at all when you remove all the mounting bolts ?!.

 

[shadetree]

and welcome to the forums, and down load the service manual from our site here .

 

[lateonthebrakes]

and welcome to the forums, and down load the service manual from our site here .

I'll have to take another look at it tomorrow. I was trying to refrain from removing the clutch and splitting the crankcase if at all possible as it gets more involved and more expensive to reassemble the further I break it down. I have downloaded the manual and I'm following it as best I can. The reverse stop under the rear cover appears to be working correctly. I will try to use photos/diagrams to explain what I've tried and verify we are talking about the same parts before I progress.

 

[shadetree]

and welcome to the forums, and down load the service manual from our site here .

I'll have to take another look at it tomorrow. I was trying to refrain from removing the clutch and splitting the crankcase if at all possible as it gets more involved and more expensive to reassemble the further I break it down. I have downloaded the manual and I'm following it as best I can. The reverse stop under the rear cover appears to be working correctly. I will try to use photos/diagrams to explain what I've tried and verify we are talking about the same parts before I progress.

you don't need to remove the clutches just to inspect the front area where your shifting parts are . but, if nothing is wrong/damaged at the front or back ?, then yes, you will need to pull the clutches in order to get in to the shift drum.

 

[lateonthebrakes]

[/QUOTE]

you don't need to remove the clutches just to inspect the front area where your shifting parts are . but, if nothing is wrong/damaged at the front or back ?, then yes, you will need to pull the clutches in order to get in to the shift drum.[/QUOTE]

I don't see any smoking gun. No obviously bent/broken/loose parts. I'll put it up and the bench and start pulling more stuff apart this afternoon. What is the consensus for the best website for buying the OEM Honda parts I need for replacing O-rings and fasteners? I tend to use MotoSport or BikeBandit. Are there any websites that can get the parts significantly cheaper?

 

[shadetree]

you don't need to remove the clutches just to inspect the front area where your shifting parts are . but, if nothing is wrong/damaged at the front or back ?, then yes, you will need to pull the clutches in order to get in to the shift drum.[/QUOTE]

I don't see any smoking gun. No obviously bent/broken/loose parts. I'll put it up and the bench and start pulling more stuff apart this afternoon. What is the consensus for the best website for buying the OEM Honda parts I need for replacing O-rings and fasteners? I tend to use MotoSport or BikeBandit. Are there any websites that can get the parts significantly cheaper?[/QUOTE]

I was using partzilla for the cheapest parts ?..BUT NOT ANY MORE !..LOL. if your not in a hurry ?, and don't mind being lied to ?, and can wait a month or two ?, use them. or..go to rocky mountain atv, have them price match partzilla, and yes..they will price match !, and you earn bonus bucks for every part you buy !. rocky mountain atv is where you need to buy oem parts from, I know I will be buying from them from now on !.

 

[lateonthebrakes]

I think the front crankcase cover popped off because the adjusting plate and ball retainer were not sitting correctly. The ball bearings were not in the indentation of the adjusting plate, possibly from me going at the frozen nut with an impact gun. I don't see any obvious parts broken and the shift drum doesn't seem to be snapped in the back.

I probably should have asked this up front. Should I be able to shift N to 5th with the engine off the bike? Will this only be possible when the motor/tranny are spinning?

 

[lateonthebrakes]

I think I've exhausted all I can without cracking the crankcase. I removed the drum stopper in the rear and now I can shift from reverse to neutral but can't go into 1st or higher. Do all the gears use the same shift fork?

 

[lateonthebrakes]

More pics and links to video.
https://youtu.be/FF8Q-HqL5k0
https://youtu.be/FSmGqfWukkQ

 

[lateonthebrakes]

More pics.

 

[shadetree]

I think the front crankcase cover popped off because the adjusting plate and ball retainer were not sitting correctly. The ball bearings were not in the indentation of the adjusting plate, possibly from me going at the frozen nut with an impact gun. I don't see any obvious parts broken and the shift drum doesn't seem to be snapped in the back.

I probably should have asked this up front. Should I be able to shift N to 5th with the engine off the bike? Will this only be possible when the motor/tranny are spinning?

that adjusting part can be a problem..lol. as for the shifting while the motor is not running ?, no. you have to move the atv back and forth while shifting, and listen to the click when the gears shift in the transmission.

 

[shadetree]

put it all back together, no oil ( motor still on bench ), while shifting the gears with foot lever, spin the rear out put shaft ( you may need some vise grips or pliers ? ), as your shifting the gears, listen for the shift drum changing gears. you will need to adjust the clutch as your doing all this. the clutch has to be adjusted correctly before it will shift right, or easier ?..lol.

 

[lateonthebrakes]

put it all back together, no oil ( motor still on bench ), while shifting the gears with foot lever, spin the rear out put shaft ( you may need some vise grips or pliers ? ), as your shifting the gears, listen for the shift drum changing gears. you will need to adjust the clutch as your doing all this. the clutch has to be adjusted correctly before it will shift right, or easier ?..lol.

Clutch is currently off the engine. I've tried turning the output shaft while changing gear with a screw driver or Allen key (see pics and videos). I guess it's possible I'm not spinning the shaft fast enough but now I can get it into 1st. But I can go from reverse to neutral.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[lateonthebrakes]

Also, if I'm spinning the shaft is the correct direction clockwise or counterclockwise she. Looking at it from the front of the motor? Clockwise would be nice to I could put the but back on the shaft and use a bit driver and socket.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[shadetree]

both clutches have to be in the motor before it will shift !..lol. as I said, put it all back together, no oil yet !..lol. follow my post above for instructions ^^^, this way, you will tell if it shifts through all gears . ( DON'T TIGHTEN DOWN ANY NUTS ON THE CLUTCHES ! ) just fit both clutches in the motor, hand tighten the nuts down, then go through the gear shifting. if it all works ?, then re-check all your work, put it together

 

[lateonthebrakes]

I'll give it a try when I get home but I don't know why having the clutch would make a difference. The whole point of disengaging the clutch is remove load from the transmission and decouple it with the engine. With the clutches removed I can freely rotate the transmission output shaft to the best of my knowledge. Is there a concentric shaft that is only engaged with a set of the splines from the change clutch installed.

 

[shadetree]

I'll give it a try when I get home but I don't know why having the clutch would make a difference. The whole point of disengaging the clutch is remove load from the transmission and decouple it with the engine. With the clutches removed I can freely rotate the transmission output shaft to the best of my knowledge. Is there a concentric shaft that is only engaged with a set of the splines from the change clutch installed.

lol. you trying to see how smart I am or what ?..lol. ok, i'll try to make this simple as I can for ya . lets start at the crank. crank is moving, on the end of this crank is your centrifugal clutch, which is where your one-way bearing is, and your clutch arms, as the rpm's increase ?, those clutch arms fly outwards, when this happens, they grab the bell housing ( this is what I call it..lol ), once they grab the bell housing, they transfer this force to the gear on the housing, this gear then transfers the force to the change clutch, this is where your friction disk are. this change clutch has a shaft that goes into the motor, this is called your main shaft, it has gears on it, these gears interlock to the counter shaft, this counter shaft goes out the rear ( front and rear for 4wd models ), this shaft is called the out put shaft. sooooooooo, if the clutches are not installed ?, and your not using the clutch arm lifter to take or put pressure on the friction disk in the change clutch ?, your not going to be able to change gears, make sense now ? .

 

[lateonthebrakes]

Sorry. I wasn't trying to question your credentials. Just trying to make sense of it. I'm a mechanical engineer and a big time car junky. I know how most the systems work together very well. I thought/think I'm basically turning the output/tail shaft on the transmission and the gears should be moving to allow me to change gears. Maybe there is some trickery that wasn't obvious initially. Like turning the main, counter, or lay shaft independent of each other.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[shadetree]

Sorry. I wasn't trying to question your credentials. Just trying to make sense of it. I'm a mechanical engineer and a big time car junky. I know how most the systems work together very well. I thought/think I'm basically turning the output/tail shaft on the transmission and the gears should be moving to allow me to change gears. Maybe there is some trickery that wasn't obvious initially. Like turning the main, counter, or lay shaft independent of each other.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

you may be able to spin the out put shaft without the clutches in ?, but you would still need to get all the shifting parts back in the front, and see if it will shift through all gears ?. I've always put the clutches in, to make sure it would shift, and hold against the clutches ?..this way I knew the crank was connected to everything when running. if it won't shift this way ?, then odd's are, you have to split it, and see what is wrong with your shift forks ?, and gears and their gear dogs ?. ( just know you did not want to hear that huh ? )..lol.