Honda ATV Forum banner

Is the problem internal (clutch) or electrical (tcm/tps)?

  • Clutch

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Electrical

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mechanical

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Something else

    Votes: 0 0.0%
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've owned a 2003 Rincon 650 for over a year and have been reading this forum from day one! I can almost always find answers here. I started with a Rincon that was smoking when I bought it and the prior owner told me it wouldn't go into 4th gear!:laugh: So I found that it needed top end service and that the wrist pin had severe wear. So a new crank/rod and top end service later I have it all back together and it runs like new... In first gear! When I shift from 1st to 2nd it feels like it's down shifting or almost locks up the back wheels... Nothing grinds or makes any noise it's just like the break is applied. I pulled the codes and have 10 (tcm) and 11 (tps) But I thought that could have been triggered by the disassembly process so I cleared them and they haven't came back. the service manual list a trouble shooting procedure for this that points to the 1st clutch... But it shifted great before the rebuild. Any suggestions on where to start would be great!
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,717 Posts
RinconWrencher: There are more choices/possibilities that you should have put in your selection. The Rincon transmission and the Rubicon transmissions are quite different than the other transmissions. The Rincon transmission uses valves to do the shifting. While the valves can be controlled electrically, they must also be mechanically adjusted. Thus, the electrical function of the valve could be perfect. But, if the mechanical adjustment is off, then your shifting will be goofed up. Oil, and oil levels can also affect shifting, since the valves require a supply of oil to work correctly. Also, if there was debris in your engine at one time (due to a bad top end), then some of that debris could have made it's way into the shifting valves since both the engine and transmission share the same oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Kentco thanks for the reply. I guess I have a lot more variables here than I thought. As to the oil it's what my Honda book recommended and is at the correct level. So that's at least on thing I can eliminate. I hoisted the rearend off the groung and ran through the gears at just above idle. In second you can see resistance or a slowing of the tire speed in a rhythm or patern. There no sound of gear noise or anything from inside the case so I'm starting to feel like it's a hydraulic issue as in a valve or sensor. Rather than a gear or clutch problem... I did have the entire engine apart and through a parts washer and blew it all out with air... One part that didn't get a lot of attention though was the valve block... I think I'll check that out next. Thanks again for the insight!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,717 Posts
I think that is where I would start looking if I was you. There are a lot of hydraulics going on in the transmission. Do you have a service manual. If not, you'll definitely need one if you are going into the transmission. Keep me informed. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
So I had a couple of hours this evening to tinker on the Rincon. I pulled most of the electrical connections associated with the transmission, cleaned them and applied electrical lube before plugging them back in. I then pulled the valve block and disassembled and cleaned it. Had a little gunk but nothing major. Reinstalled it and still no change. Going to round up a fitting for the gauge and check pressures but it's looking more and more like I'm going to have to pull the motor again :(

Here is someone who has the same problem I'm having but no resolution was posted

Honda Rincon Forum : RinconRiders Honda Rincon Forums
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,717 Posts
Wrencher, the link you provided only took me to the forum home page.
Anyway, make sure that the oil pump is working well and producing enough pressure. If it isn't working well, then the valves won't operate correctly.
There have been occasional oil pump failures with the Rincon. However, it is not a common problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Finally got a gage on it. Line pressure is perfect. 1st is perfect. 2nd and 3rd has good pressure but I don't want to run it up to 5000rpm because it acts like there is resistance against it. 2nd bogs down but 3rd is really bad and won't move much at all. On the gauge I can see it shift and it makes it up to 70psi before I chicken out. It's not making any noise, it's just bogging down like its fluid resistance. I wonder if the 1st clutch isn't releasing?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,717 Posts
It is possible that the clutch is not releasing. That would be the next thing to look at.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I wanted to update this with the resolution to the problem. I pulled the front cover and removed the torque converter, 1st clutch and the oil pump. I then replaced every o-ring I could find even though I had already done so on the rebuild. The only old o-rings I replaced was the ones inside the clutch. I really believe that those did the trick. I took the clutch completely apart and had not done so on the initial rebuild. The Rincon now shifts through the gears and runs excellent with the only exception being it seems to down shift when in third and holding steady or decelerating then it immediately up shifts again. Whatever it is it does it in esp and auto. Oh well I'm thinking its electrical and am not really concerned about it until I have more time to work on it. In the meantime I will be putting this thing to work finally.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,717 Posts
Wrencher: Good to hear that things are coming along for you and your Rincon. You've done a LOT of work on it! The symptom you are still experiencing will most likely be solved by adjusting the valves in the transmission. (I trust that you have a service manual to guide you through the process). :)
Thanks for your feedback.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Well not only do I have a service manual but thanks to you kentco I now know to look at it for transmission adjustments lol. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Kentco I Looked through section 12 of the manual and several other places but could not find anything on the transmission valve adjustment. Also searched online but didn't see anything helpful. Looking at all this on my phone so maybe I'm just missing it. Any suggestions would be great!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
hey when you pulled the front cover did anything come apart. I'm about to pull my off and I have never pulled it off and I don't want nothing coming off if I do it wrong. Any help would be nice. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Going by memory I don't believe there was anything to difficult about taking the front cover off. The torque converter and low clutch is located there. It's a little tricky reinstalling the oil pump due to the drive chain coming off it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,516 Posts
I wanted to update this with the resolution to the problem. I pulled the front cover and removed the torque converter, 1st clutch and the oil pump. I then replaced every o-ring I could find even though I had already done so on the rebuild. The only old o-rings I replaced was the ones inside the clutch. I really believe that those did the trick. I took the clutch completely apart and had not done so on the initial rebuild. The Rincon now shifts through the gears and runs excellent with the only exception being it seems to down shift when in third and holding steady or decelerating then it immediately up shifts again. Whatever it is it does it in esp and auto. Oh well I'm thinking its electrical and am not really concerned about it until I have more time to work on it. In the meantime I will be putting this thing to work finally.
Anyone else have this problem?

I just got my buddy's Rincon back together and it's doing the same thing.

I'm going to pull the front cover, just curious as to what exactly causes this.

I replaced all the oil pump orings, but didn't take the clutch apart. Are there just the two orings on the clutch?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
My Rincon was doing the exact same thing. The issue I found was that when I put the front cover back on, the low flow/high flow tube was damged or pinched off. before you take the cover off, remove the large hex bolt on the front cover and remove the low flow and high flow tubes and inspect them.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
38,518 Posts
I'll do that. Honestly don't even remember removing a hex bolt, so maybe I pinched something when I put the front cover back on.

Where is that in the schematics?

Honda ATV Parts 2006 TRX680FA A OIL PUMP Diagram

Honda ATV Parts 2006 TRX680FA A FRONT CRANKCASE COVER Diagram
I don't know crap about this engine ?, but I wonder if he's talking about number #8 in the front cover ?, shows its a bolt, but looks like a cap of some kind ?, and most caps like those have a hex on them. and the only hex bolt I know of are the ones inside the covers, these are the oil pressure relief valves.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,516 Posts
Not sure. Hopefully b_sherwood will come back and help!

It would be a HUGE relief if I didn't have to pull the front cover, or God forbid, the whole dang engine again.

This is my ONE foray into a Rincon motor. Won't be messing with another one of these.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
38,518 Posts
Not sure. Hopefully b_sherwood will come back and help!

It would be a HUGE relief if I didn't have to pull the front cover, or God forbid, the whole dang engine again.

This is my ONE foray into a Rincon motor. Won't be messing with another one of these.
i'll stick with the simple engines..lol.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top