[King1094]

Hello, and thank you for visiting my nightmare. I have a 2000 Honda 450 ES that I have never had any issues with. It is loaded with heated grips, winch, etc. Everything was working great until I went to get it out of the garage the other day, turned the wheel sharp right and everything went black. I thought I found the issue in the 30 amp fuse under the seat (it was blown), replaced it and it fired right up. Drove it for about 10 minutes and it died, drained the battery and was dead. I bought a new battery, and it fired right up, ran for about 10 minutes and died, battery was completely dead. I charged the battery and ordered a new OEM Stator and Regulator. I put the new, fully charged battery in and drove it back to my garage which was maybe 3-4 minutes.

When I got to the garage the regulator was blowing smoke out of the top of it like a freight train and was so hot, it softened/slightly melted the connector on the harness. The entire top of the regulator melted off. I broke everything down, replaced the stator and the new regulator. Lined up the shift drum and the shift position sensor and bolted everything back up. I turned on the key and shifted with the shift motor up and down. I got Reverse w/light, I got Neutral, no light, I got 1st and 5th. Back down I get nothing for 4th, 3rd, and 2nd. I get 1st, Neutral, no light and I get Reverse w/light. It will crank over like a new one in Neutral, but without the light I have no spark. Also confirmed no spark with the plug out and grounded. I tried to ground the green wire with red stripe and get no Neutral light. I can ground the pins in the shift sensor and the display will give me Reverse w/Light, Neutral with no light, 1st and 5th. I had a good change shift computer and hooked it up with not changes from above.

This bike is used as a mail getter and does not ever see anything other than rain or flying snow. It has never been through standing water or submerged. It has definitely been a garage queen.

Did I mention how much I hate electrical problems? I have looked at everything and I cannot find any bad connections, all fuses are good. I have always kept my grounds and connectors clean and greased. If my neutral light went bad, would it still start? or does the light have to carry the current? The neutral light was working fine before this incident. Thanks in advance for all your help. Always look forward to reading the wisdom and experience of others.

 

[shadetree]

was the new parts purchased from honda ?, or ebay or amazon ?.

 

[mrbb]

yes, were the new parts you replaced OEM parts of china junk ?

this is a BIG part of what advice we can give you here! pending your answers
but basically if you used NON oem parts, scrap the junk you got and get OEM parts!


NEXT have you ever had any issue's with MICE where you keep this atv, as its a 19 yr old machine and as time goes by, both wire insulation can crack and or can mice make problems chewing on it!

Have you ever serviced the shift motor?

have a read at this,
https://www.hondaatvforums.net/foru...8080-fixing-electronic-shift-es-problems.html

E shift atv's are one of them things, when they WORK there nice, but when they DON"T and a LOT of them have issues with them NOT working properly
they can be a pain in the butt!
one of the main things to keeping them working seems to be doing regular PM's and services on keeping things clean and good new grease!

 

[subzerosoundman]

The regulator was probably putting out close to 20 volts, which would destroy the battery pretty quick, plus maybe the ECU and the Ignition Control Module (ICM). The Black/Yellow wire fires the ignition coil from the ICM.

If the starter motor turns, then the gear position switch is working by grounding the LightGreen/Red wire. So your Neutral light must be burned out, which will not affect anything else.

On early model Foremans, the gear position switch had only 4 outputs: R, N, 1, 5. The other gear positions (2, 3, 4) were generated by the ECU which signaled the Display. I bypassed the ECU on my Foreman, and it works great, except there is no indication of gear positions 2-4, only dashes.

 

[King1094]

Hey Shadetree, thank you for the drop-by. No brother, I only purchase OEM from Honda. I don't have the time to go through 3-4 changeouts on the Chinese doo-doo. Not knocking the guys out there that do, sometimes pocket change is tight and you gotta do, what you gotta do.

 

[King1094]

Hey mrbb, thanks for the drop-by, yes, mice had chewed the bajeebers out of the wires, right under the seat in the battery tray. I replaced, soldered, and shrink tubed every one of them. They were all still intact, just had the nice tasting soy coating chewed off. I cleaned them up and recovered them. I thought that might have been the issue and once repaired, it fired right up (green neutral and all). I drove it maybe 3-5 minutes and died, charged battery and blew the 30 amp fuse, replaced fuse and it fired right up and drove 3-5 minutes and melted the regulator. It was still running, shut it down and replaced OEM stator, OEM regulator and now I can't get the neutral light and no spark. I have continuity between green with red stripe to starter relay, and to Change Shift ECM. Display works correctly for R with light, Neutral and No Light, 1st and 5th. The starter cranks like a new one. No spark? Had a spare OEM Change Shift ECM and no difference. Really, really strange. Can't figure it out.

 

[King1094]

subzerosoundman thanks for the drop-by, that was some good information. Interesting enough, I tried your info and while I was getting pulled to my shop, I went through the gears. While I was moving, I got 2nd, 3rd, and 4th on my display if in motion. When I stopped, it went to dashes. The light could be burned out, but it would be a coincidence, because it worked fine before the stator and regulator change. The ECU or Change Shift I changed out with no change. I did not replace the ICM though. Could be my issue. I think I will order one and try that out. Thanks and I will keep you posted. Appreciate all the help, may end up bypassing my ECM, might need your help with that.

 

[subzerosoundman]

If it was running and you turned it off when the freight train was blowing smoke, then the ICM may still be good. Although it could have gotten a voltage spike when you turned it off that toasted it nice and crispy.

So now it looks like it might be the Ignition Pulse Generator, which is part of the Stator assembly, and uses the same 5 pin connector as the Stator. Look for the Blue/Yellow wire. It goes from there to the ICM. Since you replaced the stator, you might have messed up the connection to the Ignition Pulse Generator.
You might want to check continuity of the Blue/Yellow wire.

You might also have a faulty Display that partially cooked with the high voltage.

 

[mrbb]

if you found wires chewed on near battery odds are HIGH< they chewed on them else where and you might have a short, thus blowing the fuse?

time to back track wires more IMO

 

[shadetree]

short some where in the harness. be sure to check the black rubber box fuse itself, inside it is a metal fuse, looks like a very small open end wrench.

 

[LedFTed]

dialectic grease, i presume..

 

[King1094]

Killing me bro, lol. Thanks for the info. I was thinking about the IPG, especially since I didn't replace that part. My ICM comes in on Friday. I will post back if that fixes it. In the meantime I will hit that blue/yellow wire and test for continuity. I am praying that I didn't fry the display. So far it is nice and clear and is giving me everything as before, just no green light. Frustrating!

 

[King1094]

Thanks mrbb, yep, yep. I went through the rest. I have this thing stripped down to a skeleton and have checked everything. I have even stripped off all of the old casing and tape and have started continuity tests on all the wires. I would rather jump in the ring with Tyson for 3 rounds than go through this again. What a mess! Good news is that so far, no more chewed up wires and all continuity is checking out. I hope to have some good news by Friday evening!

 

[King1094]

Thanks shadetree, I don't remember that one. Seems like I had 2 30 amp plastic fuses in mine. I will have to go back and double check that one. I appreciate it.

 

[King1094]

LedFTed, yes sir. I know I shouldn't presume that no one would use assembly grease on an electrical connection, but I can guarantee it has been done, lol. Thanks for stopping by, I appreciate it.

 

[SamUK]

dialectic grease, i presume..

Dielectric grease isn't a conductor and shouldn't cause a short. However... Silicone grease (very similar to dielectric) can cause a short. Sometimes people cheap out and opt for silicone grease thinking it's the same, unfortunately it's not, they have different conductive properties.

 

[shadetree]

dialectic grease, i presume..

Dielectric grease isn't a conductor and shouldn't cause a short. However... Silicone grease (very similar to dielectric) can cause a short. Sometimes people cheap out and opt for silicone grease thinking it's the same, unfortunately it's not, they have different conductive properties.

maybe..JUST MAYBE ?..if folks would keep them out of deep water ?..THEN THEY WOULD NOT NEED MARINE GREASE HUH ?!..LOL.

 

[mrbb]

well even if wires are testing with good continuity while parked, if there is thin insulation or a chewed on spot, when running vibrations and bounces and such can make them THEN short out, so some times test don';t always confirm things are good when sitting idle as to running!
But if your back tracking all the wires as it sounds like you have, I guess there good?

 

[LedFTed]

LedFTed, yes sir. I know I shouldn't presume that no one would use assembly grease on an electrical connection, but I can guarantee it has been done, lol. Thanks for stopping by, I appreciate it.

i was only referring to dialectic grease. and i wont tell ya what i tried before. :smile
no need to call me sir; if only i could tell ya the other names i have been called; :grin

 

[shadetree]

LedFTed, yes sir. I know I shouldn't presume that no one would use assembly grease on an electrical connection, but I can guarantee it has been done, lol. Thanks for stopping by, I appreciate it.

i was only referring to dialectic grease. and i wont tell ya what i tried before. :smile
no need to call me sir; if only i could tell ya the other names i have been called; :grin

what if we called ya...COLLECT !!!..LOL.