Honda ATV Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
New to the forum, looks like a lot of info floating around so I thought Id post up what I have, where Im at with it, understand some nomenclature, and ask for any advice as I get deeper in.

2007 Rancher 420 FM (manual shift - no gauges *yeah you know, cause anyone who wants to shift with their feet sure would have no use for a gauge pod - speedo - hr meter * :icon_ nono: )

Bought it new, might have 30 hours on it (just havent had time to ride and have only used it hunting which is pretty limited need for it) Kept in the garage unless its on the trailer.

Ran it 3 weeks ago for 2-3 hours, all was well. Loaded it on the trailer, came home, and parked the trailer by the garage. Was planning on getting back out with it in the last couple weeks, but that didnt pan out. So it sat outside for a few weeks. Went to unload it, give er a bath and put er in, and VIOLA problems....

Hit the key, IAC motor backs off, but the fuel pump doesnt kick on momentarily, timing on the lights on the "dash" all act as they have in the past. No crank. Check battery, 12.7 volts. Throw the batt charger on just in case, no different - no fuel pump cycle, no crank, batt shows full and ready to rumble.

Was grumpy from a bad day anyway, so this just added to it, so I pushed it off the trailer, washed it off, and put in the garage to think about its actions.

While I had covers off, noticed a green with I think yellow or red striped wire, that looked melted a little... found teeth marks on the cable cover and wire insulation, so I know it was mice. Didnt dig any farther... didnt need any more drama yesterday.

Today, got the service manual and wiring diagram... oy... Im used to reading Japanese wiring diagrams on CNC machines... you know, where they number wires and colors and you can follow the schematic and they have a glossary of abbreviations... yeah... not this one... Just colors, only at terminations, so the page junctions are hard to traverse... and of course its SO HUGE my fat fingers cover have the diagram just trying to follow one wire...

Anyway.... so far, having not dug any further into the patient... I have just been filling my head with understanding of the wiring... to see if I can pin point a cluster of wires that would make sense of what is happening, or if just one wire could be the culprit, or if Im looking at a short to the ECM, rendering it garbage and the needs for a new one.

One thing has me baffled (an no I dont have any formal training in wiring, just self taught - so its probably a basic lack of understanding) - on the wire diagrams, it lists J/C 1, J/C 2, and J/C 3 - which to me seems would be a connector, or junction to something.... but given all the other stuff on the diagram, it doesnt seem to be. Guess if I knew what J/C stood for (as long as its not Junction/Connector) that might help... Anyone shed some light on that?

Right now, I see some ties that could get right in the middle of the fuel pump running and the starter relay not energizing... but the ties are at these J/C spots... so Im not sure what is on the "other side" of those wires.

Ill get some stuff pulled off and out here in the next day or so to see physical damage, and that might help me get to the root of it... but would rather not tear down, replace the visible bad stuff, to put it back together just to see.. I would rather fix it, know how it works, and know its fixed before I go back together with it.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Wade
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
38,518 Posts
New to the forum, looks like a lot of info floating around so I thought Id post up what I have, where Im at with it, understand some nomenclature, and ask for any advice as I get deeper in.

2007 Rancher 420 FM (manual shift - no gauges *yeah you know, cause anyone who wants to shift with their feet sure would have no use for a gauge pod - speedo - hr meter * :icon_ nono: )

Bought it new, might have 30 hours on it (just havent had time to ride and have only used it hunting which is pretty limited need for it) Kept in the garage unless its on the trailer.

Ran it 3 weeks ago for 2-3 hours, all was well. Loaded it on the trailer, came home, and parked the trailer by the garage. Was planning on getting back out with it in the last couple weeks, but that didnt pan out. So it sat outside for a few weeks. Went to unload it, give er a bath and put er in, and VIOLA problems....

Hit the key, IAC motor backs off, but the fuel pump doesnt kick on momentarily, timing on the lights on the "dash" all act as they have in the past. No crank. Check battery, 12.7 volts. Throw the batt charger on just in case, no different - no fuel pump cycle, no crank, batt shows full and ready to rumble.

Was grumpy from a bad day anyway, so this just added to it, so I pushed it off the trailer, washed it off, and put in the garage to think about its actions.

While I had covers off, noticed a green with I think yellow or red striped wire, that looked melted a little... found teeth marks on the cable cover and wire insulation, so I know it was mice. Didnt dig any farther... didnt need any more drama yesterday.

Today, got the service manual and wiring diagram... oy... Im used to reading Japanese wiring diagrams on CNC machines... you know, where they number wires and colors and you can follow the schematic and they have a glossary of abbreviations... yeah... not this one... Just colors, only at terminations, so the page junctions are hard to traverse... and of course its SO HUGE my fat fingers cover have the diagram just trying to follow one wire...

Anyway.... so far, having not dug any further into the patient... I have just been filling my head with understanding of the wiring... to see if I can pin point a cluster of wires that would make sense of what is happening, or if just one wire could be the culprit, or if Im looking at a short to the ECM, rendering it garbage and the needs for a new one.

One thing has me baffled (an no I dont have any formal training in wiring, just self taught - so its probably a basic lack of understanding) - on the wire diagrams, it lists J/C 1, J/C 2, and J/C 3 - which to me seems would be a connector, or junction to something.... but given all the other stuff on the diagram, it doesnt seem to be. Guess if I knew what J/C stood for (as long as its not Junction/Connector) that might help... Anyone shed some light on that?

Right now, I see some ties that could get right in the middle of the fuel pump running and the starter relay not energizing... but the ties are at these J/C spots... so Im not sure what is on the "other side" of those wires.

Ill get some stuff pulled off and out here in the next day or so to see physical damage, and that might help me get to the root of it... but would rather not tear down, replace the visible bad stuff, to put it back together just to see.. I would rather fix it, know how it works, and know its fixed before I go back together with it.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Wade
welcome to the forums...that yellow with red stripe on it..is your starter relay wire..it makes contact inside the starter relay when you push the start button..if it's broken..it won't let power go through your start button to your relay..this is what makes your starter ..well..start. check to make sure this wire is connected..there also is a green with red stripe wire also that goes to the relay..check this one too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
I just replaced the mouse chewed wiring that ocured on my older honda. What I found was that the wiring was chewed where the mice were living, mostly in the battery area and under the dash cover in the front end. I just inspected the wiring harness and replaced all damaged wires by splicing in new wires wherever they were chewed up. Hope this helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the welcome! Wish it were under different circumstances...

Well - and to my joyous discovery... its not just mine... the lil ladies 08 TRX420FE is in the same shape... maybe even a touch worse... and with 2 hours on it total, Im sure she will be pleased when I fill her in on the details...

The pics are not very good... hard to get good lighting and get all the wires to sit nice... but about 90% of the damage is within 1/2 - 3/4" of the various connectors... so splicing will be doable, but surely not fun. I may be better set to spend the 201 for the FM and 246 for the FE wiring harnesses and just swap em out... Just looking at the damage, Id guess Ill a ton of hours splicing, water proofing and soldering wires together and still risk some not being able to be done cause they are too close to the connectors, and I have yet to find a good source for metri-pac terminals to replace terminals within the connector body.

Id guess, if I spent the time working in the shop (machining and fabrication) and just swap the harness in a few hours, instead of splicing wires for days, I would probably end up saving/making more money than Id save cost/time wise splicing...

Winterstarranch: Thats what Ive seen both automotive and machinery wise too... not usually wires just out there, but ones where they nest up... WHich is why I checked the lil ladies wheeler too - hoping I wouldnt find what I found. Not seeing anything anywhere else... yet...

Shadetree: Yeah, fully versed on the operation... I didnt give any history on me, so you had no way to know - my bad. Used to be/still am on my own stuff - a mechanic... specializing in fuel injection and the like (OEM and Aftermarket)... so dealing with that stuff is no prob... I was just trouble shooting theories before I got in there and saw the actual damage. Looking for that one tie between the ignition switch, fuel pump, and starter switch/relay... And right now, after seeing the whole mess once its all strung out and visible.... there aint just one problem... like I was hoping for.. that one wire the mice chewed... but no love... ggrrrrrrrr

Oh, and I did figure out what the J/C1,2, and 3 is...
And I guess I should have realized it looking at the wiring diagram... but it is as it is on the diagram... and it really is a junction connector. And now that I know what it is and how its set up, it makes all the sense in the world - so they can use the same harness and change the configuration easily. There are three little covers that look like relays all lego'd together... inside, is just a row socket. And plugged into that socket is basically a jumper card, with various circuits jumpered together. So... thats what that is on the wiring diagram... and looks like just a way to easily change the configuration of the harness with different cards.

Thanks again everyone... guess as I dig deeper and get on the fixing trail, Ill keep ya posted.

Ugh... not what I wanted to deal with right now... so much stuff to do - so little time and so little money...
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
38,518 Posts
wow..they did a great job on chewing your wires up !!!.you should hire them for construction !..lol..good luck on that over haul..if it were me ( and no..your not me )..lol..i'd save my cash..and start splicing wires..but..this is me !..lol..anyway..good luck..keep us posted !!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Yeah, saving money would be nice... my problem is, being self employed, and having more work than I have time for... if I decided to splice em up... every hour that I spend splicing wires - is an hour Im not making money.

Ill do some thinking and research when I have time... see how cheap I can come up with the harness. So far 181 for the FM and 225 for the FE.

Doubt there is anything "used" out there...
Wade
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
38,518 Posts
Yeah, saving money would be nice... my problem is, being self employed, and having more work than I have time for... if I decided to splice em up... every hour that I spend splicing wires - is an hour Im not making money.

Ill do some thinking and research when I have time... see how cheap I can come up with the harness. So far 181 for the FM and 225 for the FE.

Doubt there is anything "used" out there...
Wade
check on ebay..they always have used wire harness there !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
I had a similar situation with my 07 Rancher at the deer camp. Check out the crap I pulled out of the air filter box. I think wires may have been chewed as well, it doesn't stay running now even after I removed the ceiling tile insulation, toilet paper, and deer corn.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,924 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,969 Posts
Welcome to the forums, and I feel for yeah..Those d*** mice can cause allot of trouble and money. Either way your in it for allot of time, by the time you strip off all the plastic, and well you know,,,big PIA! Best of luck, and I can see why I you would want to buy the new harnesses, even if just for piece of mind, hoping you didn't miss something.
I had this happen to a VW Jetta 3 with the VR6 engine with a 5spd. years ago,,the car came from down South, and being a 95 model it was in very good condition. I let it set in storage just over one winter, and was getting after it to put it back on the road that spring. I was so upset over the whole deal that I sold the car to a VW dealer:icon_ cry: I wanted to make it my hot rod build, but so much for that idea....Good luck, and were here to help if we can.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
That sucks, i had mice get into the airbox of my snowmobile one year. They pissed in the carb and it went into the jug and the crank. $1500 in damages. The sled only had 100 miles on it. Good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
I stored it in the barn...not anymore, moved it away from the feed. Hopefully they wont get in it now, guess I will put poison in the battery compartment. Found the harness for around $180....prices vary from 180 to over 300 ...crazy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,349 Posts
I had the same problem on my recon then rancher, it ate a tube on recon and would barely run, then a yr later same rat ate a wire on rancher going to the throttle body, it barely ran. Soldered wire back together and its good as new.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
I am in the need for a 5 pin female plug that goes to the throttle position sensor on a 2007 Honda 420 4X4 Manual shift its on the side of the throttle body. If anyone has a damaged wiring harness I would buy it from you but i only need that plug and the wires could be cut back about 8 inches. Thanks for any help
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
303 Posts
Honda makes rodent deterrent tape, it's expensive but I just ordered some. Anyone ever used it? I'm having the same problem btw but fortunately I found it before I started having problems
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top