Burning Oil? 2011 Rancher 420FM - Page 3 - Honda ATV Forum
Repair & Maintenance Having problems? Doing a rebuild? All Repair/Maintenance Discussions here.

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post #21 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 11:04 PM
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Hi: The dirty fuel filter can cause the bike to over heat and slow down -- and back firer -- jerk climbing hills. Burning oil is something one has to find by checking things.
Is there a trick to remove the line off of the fuel pump with the green clip? It says to remove it first to relieve fuel pressure. I got a buddy to push in one side of the green clip with a small screwdriver while I did on the other side while pulling up. It isn’t budging. I’m worried I’m going to break it.
You may need to read the manual again. To relieve the fuel pressure you first disconnect the FUEL PUMP UNIT 4P CONNECTOR. It's the big square plugin electrical connection. It sits on top of the plastic covering over the fuel tank. Then, crank and let it run until it stalls. Then, DISCONNECT the negative terminal on the battery, THEN, you can disconnect the fuel pump hose.

I'm more concerned about the black/gray smoke you saw and the engine compression.
@retro has a great post about checking compression to be sure it's done correctly. He discusses the need for the right gauge parts to get the proper seal while checking. Sorry, I don't have it bookmarked, but a search will find it.
Also, just want to be sure we both have the same definition of "throttle open". By throttle open the manual is telling you to hold the throttle DOWN/IN, as if you're giving it all the gas you can and hold it there while checking the compression. Some people misread this to mean you don't touch the throttle while checking compression. If you DID hold the throttle down it does not necessarily mean your compression reading is correct. Again, read the post by @retro.

Based upon everything you've said I agree with @misterclean59 that your overheating problem may be solved with the radiator cleaning/coolant change.
So, if it were me, I would:
1. check the compression correctly
2. do leak down test
3. pull the top end and check the valves

Lastly, I bet you may have sunk that Rancher at some point. If not, I bet you've enjoyed some good mud more than once. You don't get a radiator that clogged if you're just riding on dirt trails.
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post #22 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 11:24 PM Thread Starter
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Hi: The dirty fuel filter can cause the bike to over heat and slow down -- and back firer -- jerk climbing hills. Burning oil is something one has to find by checking things.
Is there a trick to remove the line off of the fuel pump with the green clip? It says to remove it first to relieve fuel pressure. I got a buddy to push in one side of the green clip with a small screwdriver while I did on the other side while pulling up. It isnít budging. Iím worried Iím going to break it.
You may need to read the manual again. To relieve the fuel pressure you first disconnect the FUEL PUMP UNIT 4P CONNECTOR. It's the big square plugin electrical connection. It sits on top of the plastic covering over the fuel tank. Then, crank and let it run until it stalls. Then, DISCONNECT the negative terminal on the battery, THEN, you can disconnect the fuel pump hose.

I'm more concerned about the black/gray smoke you saw and the engine compression.
@retro has a great post about checking compression to be sure it's done correctly. He discusses the need for the right gauge parts to get the proper seal while checking. Sorry, I don't have it bookmarked, but a search will find it.
Also, just want to be sure we both have the same definition of "throttle open". By throttle open the manual is telling you to hold the throttle DOWN/IN, as if you're giving it all the gas you can and hold it there while checking the compression. Some people misread this to mean you don't touch the throttle while checking compression. If you DID hold the throttle down it does not necessarily mean your compression reading is correct. Again, read the post by @retro.

Based upon everything you've said I agree with @misterclean59 that your overheating problem may be solved with the radiator cleaning/coolant change.
So, if it were me, I would:
1. check the compression correctly
2. do leak down test
3. pull the top end and check the valves

Lastly, I bet you may have sunk that Rancher at some point. If not, I bet you've enjoyed some good mud more than once. You don't get a radiator that clogged if you're just riding on dirt trails.


I havenít sunk it before. Havenít even gotten any water in the air box. I do ride muddy trails occasionally, but at my cottage we donít have a hose so I canít clean the atv as much as I would like. Any time I bring it home I clean it very well. Yes I understand throttle open, and I followed the service manual on how to do a compression test. My second test was done correctly. Besides warming the engine up, which I could not do because there is no coolant at the moment. Once I inspect the fuel filter (and replace it if needed) I will refill the cooling system and do a compression test following the service manual completely. I did a quick look to find that post by retro on compression testing, but I couldnít find anything Iíll look more tomorrow.

As for removing the fuel pump, I didnít feel comfortable starting the engine with no coolant (even for a few seconds) to relieve pressure in the fuel system. I turned the fuel valve to ďoffĒ and then removed the lines and minimal gas came out.


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post #23 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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Burning Oil? 2011 Rancher 420FM

I got the filter out. How can I tell if it needs to be replaced?Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.

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post #24 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 07:58 AM
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The compression on your engine can be higher or lower for many reasons. First it can be higher than normal if the valves are too loose which partially or entirely disables the decompression release function. Secondly, oil in the combustion chamber can boost the numbers in relative to how much oil is there. Low compression can be a result of valves that are too tight. The tighter the valve, the more compression loss experienced. Of course worn rings and burned valves will lower the compression. Hope this helps. Ps. I posted this response before I saw the most recent posts from you. Now concerning the fuel filter, I'd replace it as a maintenance procedure......at least you will know for sure it's good then.
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post #25 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 08:51 AM Thread Starter
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The compression on your engine can be higher or lower for many reasons. First it can be higher than normal if the valves are too loose which partially or entirely disables the decompression release function. Secondly, oil in the combustion chamber can boost the numbers in relative to how much oil is there. Low compression can be a result of valves that are too tight. The tighter the valve, the more compression loss experienced. Of course worn rings and burned valves will lower the compression. Hope this helps. Ps. I posted this response before I saw the most recent posts from you. Now concerning the fuel filter, I'd replace it as a maintenance procedure......at least you will know for sure it's good then.


So I suppose I could adjust my valves and then do another compression test and this would rule out my valves being to loose. As for the oil in the combustion chamber, I donít think there is much because I donít see any black or grey smoke at idle and lower rpm it was only at 3/4 to full throttle. After doing a dry compression test I could also add some oil into the cylinder to see how much of a difference there is, to determine if the rings are bad.


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post #26 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 10:20 AM
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The compression on your engine can be higher or lower for many reasons. First it can be higher than normal if the valves are too loose which partially or entirely disables the decompression release function. Secondly, oil in the combustion chamber can boost the numbers in relative to how much oil is there. Low compression can be a result of valves that are too tight. The tighter the valve, the more compression loss experienced. Of course worn rings and burned valves will lower the compression. Hope this helps. Ps. I posted this response before I saw the most recent posts from you. Now concerning the fuel filter, I'd replace it as a maintenance procedure......at least you will know for sure it's good then.

So I suppose I could adjust my valves and then do another compression test and this would rule out my valves being to loose. As for the oil in the combustion chamber, I donít think there is much because I donít see any black or grey smoke at idle and lower rpm it was only at 3/4 to full throttle. After doing a dry compression test I could also add some oil into the cylinder to see how much of a difference there is, to determine if the rings are bad.

Please reread what @misterclean59 told you. The bottom line is that you are going to have to check the valves for wear, leakage, and the adjustment. Adjustment alone is most likely not the answer.

There's no way to know about the amount of oil in the chamber based on when it smokes. If it blows grey/black smoke, that's not good, period. In addition to checking the valves, you'll need to check the head gasket, piston ring and cylinder.

Here is the first page of a great thread where @retro talks about using a Shrader valve to check compression and other tips:
https://www.hondaatvforums.net/forum...ing-smoke.html
You need to read at least the first few pages of this thread because it may help you.
Just so you will know for future repairs, turning off the gas did not relieve the pressure on the fuel system. It's not just about the fuel in the fuel line, but also about the fuel injector.
Working on a Rancher is not like working on older bikes. The Rancher has so many electrical connections and parts that must be handled carefully because they are interrelated. You can mess things up pretty quickly. So keep following the manual.
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post #27 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 11:52 AM
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I am sticking to my initial theory. It overheated due to the radiator etc and the top end is worn out. It was probably on the threshold of burning oil and the overheating just sped up the process. Many here will support the statement that "it was not burning oil one day then all of the sudden I noticed it smoking". I would tear down the top end and inspect everything. As I stated previously, you may just need rings and valve seals.
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post #28 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 02:25 PM
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Hi: Yes that fuel filter is dirty -- I don't know if you can just replace that filter -- they have a filter kit that mounts the filter to the side of the fuel pump.
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post #29 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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Hi: Yes that fuel filter is dirty -- I don't know if you can just replace that filter -- they have a filter kit that mounts the filter to the side of the fuel pump.


Yeah Iím going to order the updated filter kit.


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post #30 of 56 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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Burning Oil? 2011 Rancher 420FM

Taking apart the top end now. Before you take off the valve cover it says to bring the engine to TDC on the compression stroke. So in order to do that it says to remove the intake and exhaust covers, timing hole cover and crankshaft cover. I have everything removed except the crankshaft cover, which is held on with 3 bolts, according to the service manual. My atv has a recoil starter, so I figured the 3 bolts are inside the recoil starter housing. It doesnít say anything about removing your recoil starter in the service manual to get to the 3 crankshaft cover bolts. I have 3 of the 4 recoil housing bolts off and I can see inside. I donít see any bolts for the crankshaft cover, but I can see where they would go.

So do I have to take the recoil off and then the metal part attached to the crankshaft which the recoil starter pawl grabs onto?Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.


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Last edited by Flemingo; 07-26-2019 at 08:16 PM.
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