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Repair & Maintenance Having problems? Doing a rebuild? All Repair/Maintenance Discussions here.

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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfiles View Post
I have seen it take 3 hours of running it hard to make all the oil from a upper job burn off all the oil that got into the exhaust , but I do't think that is the problem , seen the valve guide seals leak into the cylinder , usually when that happens you get a lot of smoke on crank up and then it slows down after it has ran a while , unless they were totally shot , but then I would think it would smoke on crank up bad ----and seen the cylinder wall get egg shaped from the piston wobbling from a worn out rod , would think since it gets worst after warming up , the jug is expanding and letting oil by-pass the rings ---if you do an upper job on a bad rod , it is not going to last but maybe 50-100 hours and be worn out again ---I think the last crank for my red 450 I bought was close to $400
I have the exhaust off right now and there is carbon inside but didnt see any oil in there. Would think carbon is normal inside most any exhaust system. You arent making my repair job any easier to think about but will do the top end and keep my fingers crossed....

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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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I think I have changed my strategy. A good friend is a local auto mechanic and was talking to him about my problem, he hasn't worked on an ATV engine but done lots of car and truck engines. I have the extra engine given to me when I bought this and he said to bring the head for him to look at to get a better picture of what is involved. He said no problem, he has a valve compression tool to get things apart so I have decided with that I can replace all the valves, springs, and seal. I should be able to clean any carbon or whatever is on the head surfaces. While everything is apart I do plan on getting the cylinder bored to match the Wiseco piston kit that came with my spare parts. On their website it is listed as .040 oversized. Should save me a few hundred $$ I would think.

Where does everybody order engine parts from?? I don't want the cheap China parts with this project. Is there anything I should replace with this project besides the valve and piston parts and gaskets?? Now is the time while apart....Thanks for all the advise....

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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 07:14 PM
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You can use partzilla to lookup part numbers:
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/ho...trax-forman-es

Buy them from a local dealer or anywhere else you prefer to shop, or you can price compare among sites to find the best deal.

As far as what you can expect to have to replace? Its gotta be torn apart to find out... so don't buy anything until you get to that point. You'll need a conventional motor oil change and an oil filter for the break-in period. After 15-20 hours are on the fresh motor you can switch it over to a full synthetic motor oil.
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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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So got it torn down today here's a few pics of the condition as it looks. It doesn't look pretty for sure especially the valves. One thing I did discover, the piston that is in there is a 1 mm oversized the same as the extra piston I have. So if the cylinder isn't in good shape I don't have an oversized one for the bore job.
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1998 Honda Foreman 450ES
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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 07:22 PM
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Look inside the intake and exhaust ports for heavy oiling evidence of leaky valve seals.

Take the wristpin from the piston and push the end of it into the top of the rod. Don't center the pin... just push it in until the end of the wristpin is flush with the other side of the rod and move the long end of the wristpin up and down. If you notice any play at all between that rod and wristpin end, the rod has gotta be replaced.

1mm oversize bore is the max so if the bore is worn out of spec, or measures tapered, out-of-round etc, you'll need another cylinder.

Also take pics of each side of the piston 90 degrees from the wristpin bore, the skirt sides in other words... so we can see the thrust-side wear on the piston.


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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 07:36 PM
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Can we get a pic of the wristpin too?


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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Can we get a pic of the wristpin too?
I will see what I can do, I do have the cylinder from my spare engine that is 90 mm, could always have that one bored....

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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by retro View Post
Look inside the intake and exhaust ports for heavy oiling evidence of leaky valve seals.

Take the wristpin from the piston and push the end of it into the top of the rod. Don't center the pin... just push it in until the end of the wristpin is flush with the other side of the rod and move the long end of the wristpin up and down. If you notice any play at all between that rod and wristpin end, the rod has gotta be replaced.

1mm oversize bore is the max so if the bore is worn out of spec, or measures tapered, out-of-round etc, you'll need another cylinder.

Also take pics of each side of the piston 90 degrees from the wristpin bore, the skirt sides in other words... so we can see the thrust-side wear on the piston.
And this too....

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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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So here is some of the results from today. I haven't got the valves out yet but took pics of the piston sides and wrist pin. I did stick the wrist pin in the crank end and it is not a perfect fit a very tad of wiggle.
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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 03:08 PM
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I think ya got a dirty sump there @bcsman. Was this bike snorkeled? Any evidence that it might have been sunk by the previous owner?

That piston has seen a steady supply of fines... its gritty, hard fines, looks like it might be fine sandy silt. I'd split the cases on that one and clean them out. You'll probably need a rod kit installed on the crank as well. You'd need new seals and possibly bearings too. The oil pump will tell ya the story when ya take that apart.

What sort of condition is your spare motor in? Will it be any cheaper to rebuild than this one?
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