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post #41 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I got all of the recent orders in today and the four W1209 boards (+ two more W1219s) are all genuine this time! So, after two weeks of trying I finally found legit suppliers! Man that game was getting old... I'm glad that crap is behind us now.

I really like these W1209s a lot! I've found a new thrill! LOL

They're small (44mm x 40mm), roomy, very well laid out boards and are much quicker & easier to operate than the W1219s are. The hardware, features and firmware are identical in both models, but these W1209s are a better implementation all around. I like the buttons layout the most on these... there is more space between the display and buttons and they are centered under the display which would make it easier to add a weatherproof strip of silicone buttons to an enclosure for these W1209 boards.

The mouser order arrived today too, as well as the two donor sensors that @shadetree donated to our project! Thanks again shadetree!

So, this weekend I'll be testing thermistors and trimming the pullup voltage on the boards until they're linear and accurate on the stovetop. Then I'll pot the new precision thermistors into the donor sensor bodies and verify those on the stovetop.

Next stage will be housings/mounting options to be hammered out. We can/probably should build this gizmo out using two separate enclosures. I found a small enclosure candidate (thin, pocket-size, about the size of a large key fob) that might be suitable for handlebar mounting the W1209 if ya want that option? A similar, larger enclosure might be fashioned if you prefer the W1219 board.

My idea for that so far consists of buying two tiny enclosures that I found online and then rob the silicone buttons from one enclosure (that one is too small to use, but has some real nice buttons!) to install into the other tiny enclosure.... I'd make a window for the display and a capillary for the LED... the board inside would be stripped down to about 12mm thickness. A china handlebar clamp from ebay could be used to mount it on the handlebar somewhere. Five 18 AWG or smaller wires would exit that tiny enclosure and connect into a 2nd, larger weatherproof enclosure mounted out of sight somewhere under the front fender. The 2nd enclosure would contain the voltage regulator & supporting discretes, the two relays, etc. on a perf board. Each enclosure + the sensor would have weatherproof plugs soldered into the ends of their wiring for ease of installation. In my mind this all seems easy and clean, but it will take a bit of fussing and time to complete. I'm all ears... this might be a great time to finalize our decisions.

Here are some pics of the W1209. The 1st pic shows LLL on the display cause the sensor is disconnected. Thats one of the more important features we wanted, right there. :-) Next pic shows the size difference between the single display W1209 and the dual-display W1219. Third pic shows the red LED turned on which indicates that the fan relay is triggered.

If you'd like @wheelsquad I can send ya a couple of these boards, so that you can compare them yourself before we decide on the final product?
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post #42 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 08:19 AM
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@retro, thanks for the pics and detailed explanation, I think I'm tracking. Handlebar mounting of the small one is great if you ask me. I ran out of handlebar space a while ago, but gained some mounting points back with my led light bar brackets that extend forward from the handlebar.

So that led display, is it giving a live reading on deg C? If so that's pretty dang handy to be able to see actual oil temp. Adjusting pots will be in the bigger enclosure under the fender?

For actually connecting to the gutted and potted sensors, are you just putting your own wires onto that now for the consistent grounding? So we're ditching the stock honda sensor wire and connector altogether now, if I follow correctly?

2004 TRX400FA (Rancher 400AT)
MotionPro twist throttle kit
12" handlebar mounted light bar
rear rack wheelchair carrier
Cycle Country 48" plow w/ KFI hybrid mount
Champion 3000 lb winch w/ synthetic rope
23" Titan 489's all around (saving clutch)

2011 Grizzly 450 EPS

Others in the family: '04 TRX250TE, '85 TRX250 Utility (X2), '05 TRX90, '06 TRX500FA, '95 TRX400FW,' 88 TRX125
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post #43 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, the current oil temp is displayed fulltime in Celsius. There is no way to display temp in Fahrenheit without remapping the code. To adjust the fan relay release temp on the W1209 you depress the 1st button (from left to right, those 3 buttons are "Set", "+", "-") momentarily, which makes the display flash the current setting. While its flashing the current trip temp you depress the "+" or "-" buttons to choose your new desired relay trip/release temp in 0.1 C increments, holding a button down makes it increment up or down real fast. Tap the "Set" button momentarily again to save that setting and return the display to reading the current oil temp.

While the fan relay is activated the Red LED next to the display lights up and remains lit until the fan relay trips back off at your desired temp.

Holding the "Set" button down for 5 seconds takes you into the setup menu, where the menu options are shown flashing on the display. There are 7 of them.... P0, P1, P2, P3, P4, P5, P6. You use the "+" & "-" buttons to scroll through them, then tap the "Set" button again to make adjustments to that particular menu function using the plus/minus buttons. Once that menu item is set to your liking tap the "Set" button again to return to the options menu list. Once you're done setting them all up in there, just wait five seconds and those menu option/settings are all saved, the display stops flashing and returns to current oil temp.

All settings & adjustments you can ever make on these buggers are saved to non-volatile RAM. So when you turn the ignition key off all of those settings remain. Next time you use the bike your previous setup is still there and active. You can alter any of them at any time, on the fly, and those changes will be saved.

Quote:
Specifications:

STM8S003F3P6 µC

Temperature Control Range: -50 ~ 110 C
Resolution at -9.9 to 99.9: 0.1 C
Resolution at all other temperatures: 1 C
Measurement Accuracy: 0.1 C
Control Accuracy: 0.1 C
Display Refresh Rate: 0.5 Seconds
Input Power (regulated DC max): 12V
Measuring Input: NTC thernistor (0.1 C tolerance, -80 C - 150 C)
Output: 1 Channel Relay Output, Capacity: unlimited

Power Consumption
Current: <=75mA

Settings Chart
Long press the “SET” button to activate the menu.

Code | Description | Range
-------------------------------------------
P0 Heating or Cooling mode - C/H
P1 Hysteresis Set - 0.1-15 C
P2 Upper Limit 110 C - Any value up to 110 C
P3 Lower Limit -50 C - Any value down to -50 C
P4 Correction/Calibration match thermister -7.0 C ~ +7.0 C in .1 C increments
P5 Delay Relay Start Time - 0-10 minutes
P6 High Temperature Alarm - 0-110 C - On/Off

Long pressing +- while powering up will reset all values to their default
The 2nd remote relays/powersupply enclosure will not contain any adjustable components inside. All control will be performed from the handlebar.

The existing fan control system on the bike can remain untouched. We don't need to use any part of it... so this will be a completely independent addon. If you ever sell the bike, just replace the oil temp sensor with your OEM Honda sensor, plug it in and remove your gizmo. The bike will be back to stock at that point. You can move the gizmo onto any Honda ATV that uses the same sensor type.
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post #44 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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Want two of these gizmos...or more, for your other bikes...? We can do that!!! :-)

We won't be hacking into any wires (or into any part) of the existing system, so your Hondas will remain 100% OEM. Our custom made sensor will be screwed into the crankcase, but we will leave the original sensor wire and plug alone. As I said, to return the bike to stock just replace our sensor with the OEM sensor and plug it back in.

Cool huh? :-)
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post #45 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 06:29 PM
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I have not looked at the boards you’re using yet but do you have the source code? Or can the assembly code on the chips be dumped? If so, it may not be too hard to figure out how to switch it to fahrenheit.

How complex is the circuit you plan to put on perf board? It’s pretty easy to etch a PCB using photosensitive copper clad boards, if you'd rather have a custom board. You probably already know that though. The initial setup for the chemicals and etc would cost a bit though. I think threw all of my chemicals away a few years ago and sold my dremel press. Might still have the old Eagle software backed up somewhere if I could find it.
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post #46 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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The STM8 chip has copy protection implemented at the hardware level, so the only way to alter the code is to wipe the EEPROM and reflash your own code. No one has figured out how to safely dump it yet... there is a guy who sorta reverse engineered the software though, and wrote replacement code (in C) having identical functionality and features:
https://github.com/mister-grumbler/w1209-firmware

Another random project here:
https://tenbaht.github.io/sduino/

And another based on eForth... a mature project with several binaries released along with documentation:
https://github.com/TG9541/stm8ef

https://github.com/TG9541/stm8ef/wiki

One of those releases transforms the W1209 board into a data logging console!

As far as the perf board mounted stuff goes, we'll have a small PCB mount 9 volts DC (coil voltage) relay, an automotive Bosch type 12 volt, 30 amp capacity power relay, a TO-220 packaged LM2940C 9 volts, 1 amp LDO voltage regulator which will supply power to the W1209 and PCB mount relay, An electrolytic (4700 uF, 35v) filter capacitor, two 10uf 35v solid Tantulum bypass capacitors on each leg of the LM2940C, and two 1 amp diodes to provide flyback voltage protection for the LM2940C VR and W1209 onboard 5v VR chip. I'll solder wiring headers along one edge of the perf board as well. Everything will be through-hole mounted, since the perfs I have on hand are plated all of the through to both sides.

I won't bother making my own PCBs though... it takes too much expense and time for a one-off build. If we ever choose to make these buggers up in any quantity, we could have a batch of PCBs made for them very cheaply. I've got Eagle and KiCAD already... just don't use them for most small projects. :-)

I'd gladly accept any donated boards that came our way tho. :-)
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post #47 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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Alright, I know you guys are probably asking yourself by now... "why is this dummy using two relays to power up one fan motor?". Because I'm a certified hopeless tightwad, thats why! A PCB mount 9v relay that could handle 20-30 amps continuous loads would cost a fortune ($20-$30 or more, if there was even such a critter available?) on mouser.com. But a good 5 amp PCB mount relay costs less than $3. So I am gonna use the $3 relay to control a heavy-duty Bosch type 30 amp relay... those are dirt cheap too, and I have 4 of them, brand new on hand already. I know that we might get by fine using a 10 amp relay... but I overbuild things on purpose so I won't ever have to repair them. I hate fixing crap that should not ever be broken down.

So there ya have it. Fire away with your criticisms and jokes.... I'm bulletproof. :-)
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post #48 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't get much done on the gizmos this weekend, due to a load of parts that I had in the vinegar bath all week needing attention. I spent the entire day Saturday prepping and painting those parts, then most of the day today baking them in the oven. They're done, but chewed up a big chunk of my weekend. I was finally able to spend about 3 hours on the gizmos this afternoon though.

I started by desoldering all of the parts off from the four W1209 boards that we won't use. Then I desoldered the SMD pullup resistor next to the thermistor header and rigged up a multi-turn (25 turns) trimpot for testing on the stovetop. Swapping in the trimpot temporarily lets me vary the pullup resistance... We can trim while testing to learn the ideal pullup resistor value to match the thermistor value that we choose. The best performing thermister value wins... so all I gotta do once that decision is final is measure the trimpot resistance and solder on a new SMD resistor that closely matches. Follow me...?

So anyway, 1st thing to do once everything got set up on the stovetop was to enter the menu setup to set some defaults and zero the correction setting. Recall from the specs listed above for option P4:
Quote:
P4 Correction/Calibration - match thermister -7.0 C ~ +7.0 C in .1 C increments
We have a 14 C range (+- 7) available in the P4 menu to finely tune the accuracy. So I set that to 0.0 C, no correction. I set the high temp alarm for 110 C (230 F) and turned the alarm off. Since we're in cooling mode rather than heating mode, the alarm must be turned off to work right. I set the trip point for the relay and red LED at 100 C (212 F) with hysteresis set overly tight at 2 C to speed the tests up. Those defaults will be used for all of the comparison tests.

The 1st candidate chosen for dunking in hot oil was one of the new precision 20k ohms thermistors. That test went quick and was pretty disappointing. I shutdown and swapped the 20k ohms thermie out for one of the new 10k ohms thermies. BAM! It was dead-nut, shadowing my meter tick for tick, from the bottom to the top!!!

So I started taking some pics of the lil' bugger in action, for y'all to ogle on. :-)
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post #49 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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This final stovetop pic shows the high temp alarm in action. Notice that the display shows "HHH", while the relay and red LED are still on, once that preset 110 C alarm threshold was exceeded. We wanted this feature in our gizmo too, really bad... remember? Well, dad burn it, we got it!

These last two pics demonstrate the tiny size of the W1209 boards. That's my old Zippo lighter outta' my pocket next to those two boards. The final pic shows one of those W1209s laying on top of my lighter.

Ya like what ya see so far?

I'll strip down the W1219 boards and test one of those on the stovetop as soon as I can, for comparison. They work almost identically to the W1209.... The W1219 displays the current temp + the trip point temp on its dual displays, its board is bigger and its poorly laid out.

I'm gonna make one for my Rancher too. But yours will be built first. :-)
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post #50 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retro View Post
This final stovetop pic shows the high temp alarm in action. Notice that the display shows "HHH", while the relay and red LED are still on, once that preset 110 C alarm threshold was exceeded. We wanted this feature in our gizmo too, really bad... remember? Well, dad burn it, we got it!

These last two pics demonstrate the tiny size of the W1209 boards. That's my old Zippo lighter outta' my pocket next to those two boards. The final pic shows one of those W1209s laying on top of my lighter.

Ya like what ya see so far?

I'll strip down the W1219 boards and test one of those on the stovetop as soon as I can, for comparison. They work almost identically to the W1209.... The W1219 displays the current temp + the trip point temp on its dual displays, its board is bigger and its poorly laid out.

I'm gonna make one for my Rancher too. But yours will be built first. :-)
Dang that's nice. I'm in for just one for now (but probably a couple more long term), the only other air cooled honda in the family with a fan hasn't made it out of my brothers yard and neighborhood in 2+ years. Since you are building one for your own Rancher, do you want SN1 to be installed on it? Then you can see the first fruits of it yourself, get a feel for its implementation, etc?
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2004 TRX400FA (Rancher 400AT)
MotionPro twist throttle kit
12" handlebar mounted light bar
rear rack wheelchair carrier
Cycle Country 48" plow w/ KFI hybrid mount
Champion 3000 lb winch w/ synthetic rope
23" Titan 489's all around (saving clutch)

2011 Grizzly 450 EPS

Others in the family: '04 TRX250TE, '85 TRX250 Utility (X2), '05 TRX90, '06 TRX500FA, '95 TRX400FW,' 88 TRX125
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