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post #121 of 195 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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The installation for the 2nd gizmo began today on my Rancher along with some other electrical works. No point in double posting the install... so jump the link here to follow the remaining steps to completion.

https://www.hondaatvforums.net/forum...ml#post1286690
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post #122 of 195 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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This afternoon I went for a ride through the woods and played with the gizmo quite a bit. I finally learned how it actually works. I think I explained it backwards earlier during stovetop testing.

Anyway, the trigger temp and hysteresis setting are relational... for instance, I wanted the fan to kick on at 100 degrees C (212 F) and stay on until the oil temp cooled off to 88 C (190.4 F), so I had to set the hysteresis at 12 C and set the trigger temp at 88 C. So the actual fan relays triggering temp = the trigger setting (88) + the hysteresis setting (12) = 100 degrees C. The fan kicks on at 100 C and kicks off at 88 C like I intended it to so I'm sure I messed up explaining it all earlier... :-)

I also learned that at idle speed the oil appears to cool down faster while the fan is running than at motor RPMs above idle. In fact, if the RPMs are taken up a bit shortly after the fan kicks on the oil temp immediately increases rather than continuing to decrease. So that probably (or might?) indicates that lower oil flow volumes and slower oil velocity through the cooler while idling allows the moving hot oil more time inside the cooler... when it exits it is appearing to be cooling at a faster rate.

When revving the motor though, the oil temp climbs sharply (immediately) a couple degrees and hangs... then falls back at a much slower rate. So I'm thinking the oil cooler capacity might be slightly undersized on my Rancher, as supplied stock by Honda. So two coolers connected in series (or a single larger one) might be a smart option to have on any heavy duty work/performance bike. Ya certainly can't see/learn this kinda stuff using the stock Honda oil temp sensor.

So do I like this gizmo...? A lot? You betcha! It is very sensitive to tiny oil temp changes and very fast to update the displayed temp. It flat out ROCKS! Many, many thanks go to @wheelsquad for getting a fire lit under this one!!! Now I can't wait to free up enough time to build some more of them! :-)

I have room for one more pic here so thought I'd share what was at least a 12 foot tall Beaver dam last fall...! It looks like the spring meltdown and icejams took about 3-4 feet or more off the top of their 1st big dam (of many, they control about 3/4 mile of that ravine and have lived behind various dams in that ravine for several decades) and left them with a tangled mess to fix and rebuild. If I hadta' guess... they was a generation of slackers behind that dam... :-)
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post #123 of 195 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retro View Post
This afternoon I went for a ride through the woods and played with the gizmo quite a bit. I finally learned how it actually works. I think I explained it backwards earlier during stovetop testing.

Anyway, the trigger temp and hysteresis setting are relational... for instance, I wanted the fan to kick on at 100 degrees C (212 F) and stay on until the oil temp cooled off to 88 C (190.4 F), so I had to set the hysteresis at 12 C and set the trigger temp at 88 C. So the actual fan relays triggering temp = the trigger setting (88) + the hysteresis setting (12) = 100 degrees C. The fan kicks on at 100 C and kicks off at 88 C like I intended it to so I'm sure I messed up explaining it all earlier... :-)

I also learned that at idle speed the oil appears to cool down faster while the fan is running than at motor RPMs above idle. In fact, if the RPMs are taken up a bit shortly after the fan kicks on the oil temp immediately increases rather than continuing to decrease. So that probably (or might?) indicates that lower oil flow volumes and slower oil velocity through the cooler while idling allows the moving hot oil more time inside the cooler... when it exits it is appearing to be cooling at a faster rate.

When revving the motor though, the oil temp climbs sharply (immediately) a couple degrees and hangs... then falls back at a much slower rate. So I'm thinking the oil cooler capacity might be slightly undersized on my Rancher, as supplied stock by Honda. So two coolers connected in series (or a single larger one) might be a smart option to have on any heavy duty work/performance bike. Ya certainly can't see/learn this kinda stuff using the stock Honda oil temp sensor.

So do I like this gizmo...? A lot? You betcha! It is very sensitive to tiny oil temp changes and very fast to update the displayed temp. It flat out ROCKS! Many, many thanks go to @wheelsquad for getting a fire lit under this one!!! Now I can't wait to free up enough time to build some more of them! :-)

I have room for one more pic here so thought I'd share what was at least a 12 foot tall Beaver dam last fall...! It looks like the spring meltdown and icejams took about 3-4 feet or more off the top of their 1st big dam (of many, they control about 3/4 mile of that ravine and have lived behind various dams in that ravine for several decades) and left them with a tangled mess to fix and rebuild. If I hadta' guess... they was a generation of slackers behind that dam... :-)
That's great info. I'm guessing my 400AT is going to show some more serious heat needing to be pushed away by the fan too. You also get to keep my old sensor for a future failure gizmo build when we take it out at our meet-up. I suppose I should make sure it's not seized in the case first, eh?
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2004 TRX400FA (Rancher 400AT)
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23" Titan 489's all around (saving clutch)

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Others in the family: '04 TRX250TE, '85 TRX250 Utility (X2), '05 TRX90, '06 TRX500FA, '95 TRX400FW,' 88 TRX125
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post #124 of 195 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 08:55 PM
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Dat beaver was busy !!! That Gizmo looks so cool , I never realized it would show the temperature , can it do F ?
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post #125 of 195 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 09:18 PM Thread Starter
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We'll get that bugger out with a 17mm socket no problem, @wheelsquad! I've got a 3 lb hammer that loves to be put to work too! Just kiddin' :-) Being its brass screwed into aluminum those two dissimilar density metals should not bond together very well anyway.

No can do oil temps in fahrenheit @fishfiles. It displays in Celcius only, until someone volunteers to rewrite and remap the program code to display fahrenheit. Maybe someday I'll look into that... and mail everyone a reflash...? But don't hold your breath, I'm gettin' old and lazy nowadays. ;-)
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post #126 of 195 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 09:32 PM
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I am fairly good at Celsius . Is the pic with 99 on yours actual temperature ? Where you running it hard ? That's about 209 F ?

I think you really got something there , even for bikes with out a fan , I think people would want one to monitor temperature more than an idiot light and would pay for it , send your design to the Chinese and have them market it , and you just work the door on the mail box
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post #127 of 195 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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Ya, the actual oil temp is displayed in realtime in degrees celcius whenever the key is on. Its pretty cool to be able to glance at it anytime and see the current oil temp. The red LED next to the digits comes on while the fan relays are energized too, so ya always know whether the fan is running or not.

I was not running the bike hard at all today... was just creeping through the woods where there are no trails. Its technical riding sorta... gotta go over logs and downed trees picking your way around stuff through the woods. The top edges of ravines are the easiest places to ride usually, but also the most challenging cause they're so darn steep. My fender flares get scared up bad over time but I like to ride like that. So I'm gonna keep my bad riding habit until they quit selling me new fender flares. :-)

I calibrated the control gizmo and oil temp sensor against a digital multimeter thermometer before I sealed up the enclosures... I replaced the pullup resistor with a 5k ohms trimpot so I could do just that. Hopefully it is accurate enough for our purpose, but if it isn't, there is a parameter menu where you can adjust for accuracy in 1/10th C increments... if ya got better measuring equipment than I used to calibrate it. The oil temp sensor was made using a 1/10th C tolerance thermistor, so its very sensitive and fast responding to tiny oil temp changes.

I like that everything is saved in non-volatile memory, so once ya set something it stays set permanently even with the key turned off, or until ya change it.

I have mine set to kick on at 100 C and kick off at 88 C right now, but I'll probably raise the max and tighten up the hysteresis a bit once I get a better feel for what the bike likes, as far as max & min oil temp working range. The fan can be kicked on and off a lot more often using this gizmo... to maintain a hot, tight oil temp range in complete confidence. Rotella T6 likes being run a lil' hot, me thinks. :-)

As for a china made gizmo...? It already is cheap china! I just stripped off all of the chintzy china bits and replaced them remotely (in the PS/relays box) with my own high quality component choices. The micro-processor is a genuine ST Micro STM8S003F3P6 so we beat the cheap china crap right out of them this time! I like the mailbox scenario though... wonder how in the world (and for how long?) we could get away with that? :-)


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post #128 of 195 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 04:19 AM
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Sounds awesome , looks awesome !
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post #129 of 195 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 08:58 AM
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Sounds awesome , looks awesome !
I agree. Very cool gizmo build @retro. You're definitely the mad scientist of the group.
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post #130 of 195 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 08:43 AM
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I finally got to unboxing the gizmo and checking it out last night, but still need to power it up and play around with it. If I were good at recording and narrating I would have done one of those "unboxing videos" for you guys. You'd have no idea this thing was a DIY based on how it looked coming out of the box.

The only thing that is left if scheduling our meet-up for the install, and that's all on me.
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2004 TRX400FA (Rancher 400AT)
MotionPro twist throttle kit
12" handlebar mounted light bar
rear rack wheelchair carrier
Cycle Country 48" plow w/ KFI hybrid mount
Champion 3000 lb winch w/ synthetic rope
23" Titan 489's all around (saving clutch)

2011 Grizzly 450 EPS

Others in the family: '04 TRX250TE, '85 TRX250 Utility (X2), '05 TRX90, '06 TRX500FA, '95 TRX400FW,' 88 TRX125
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