Honda 300 wonít stay running - Page 5 - Honda ATV Forum
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post #41 of 62 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 08:11 PM
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Mmmm beer...! Thanks! :-)

Hey let us know if you take that starter apart and find it just needs brushes. Got a tip for ya in that case. Don't mess with the black coating on the copper commutator bars... not unless we see a dire need to in the photo that you'll take for us. :-)


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post #42 of 62 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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Iíll do it. But itíll be a week or so. Since we had all that flooding here in Arkansas Iím just now getting in my hay fields. Gotta work to be able to play you know. And my can am is still running strong. I bought this fourtrax cause Iíd heard theyíre the most reliable ATV Ever. Hopefully it gets there. I have plans to trust it deep in the Ozark mountains this season.


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post #43 of 62 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 09:08 PM
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You heard right, 300s are very reliable bikes. Likely the most reliable ATV ever produced and they are number one in sales for sure! But they are no more reliable than a chintzy china bike if not properly and impeccably maintained. Thats why I preached at ya earlier... ya gotta read and follow the FSM to properly prep and maintain them. We all have various skills and knowledge bits that we hope to share here. We learn from each other every day. Reading to folks from manuals ain't takin' good advantage of our collective skills and experiences though... cause we don't get any opportunities to learn anything new from that. So when we don't have any hopes of learning from another we naturally seek out someone more interesting. I hope you are reading these comments in good light. I'm only asking ya to take better advantage of the skilled and helpful membership here. Peace bro! Lets fix your bike up!


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post #44 of 62 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 09:32 PM
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Thanks for the info. Here’s to our friendship. Cheers! Click the image to open in full size.
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your drinking my go to beer, when budweiser go's bad, usually in the winter. i dont like bud light, nor miller, except the lite.
i bought a brush for my starter, 2000es. was on the positive side. i waited to long to put it in, an the bad brush ate up the rotor, or whatever it is called.
its still hard to believe, just picking it up and sitting it on the ground, would cause a problem. not from your standpoint, but something made, that is, or should be, high class. it happens, an duz, all the time.
manuals are free here, and show wiring diagram's. if i stirred up a mess here, it was not with intention. i wernt trying to belittle you. sorry
i think that brush cost $17.oo. it was a long time ago, and was way over priced

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post #45 of 62 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 07:10 AM
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So hereís what we got. Direct power to the starter and nothing. So I thought about this for a second and remembered I had starter issues with my JD 4020 (1 of the best tractors JD even made!) it would start when it wanted too. It wound up having a good starter with a bad positive terminal connection internally. So I just removed the nuts, grabbed the post with pliers, pulled up and touched the power to it and engine cranks! Reinstall the nuts and power and I got nothing. Gonna call the dealer to see if you can get a OEM starter. If not Iíll rebuild it. Give me a week or so Iíll let yíall know.


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Question for the Honda wizards, if starter runs with direct power after taking nuts off, wouldn't the starter just need new terminal nuts for a better connection, and not a full rebuild (internals/brushes etc etc)?
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post #46 of 62 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 07:26 AM Thread Starter
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Hereís my theory on why it has failed. I believe the bike has had a carburetor leak at some time due to the engine discoloring under the carb which includes the starter. So my thinking is fuel has dripped onto and into the starter and done its destruction. Since Iím removing the starter I will either replace or rebuild it. Iím just that kind of person.


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post #47 of 62 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 07:38 AM
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Iíve had pretty limited success rebuilding the starters on these machines. You can clean them up and replace the brushes but they never last like a new OEM starter. The China ones arenít bad, they last longer than just replacing the brushes on OEM, but are much noisier than the stock starter. If funds allow, Iíd just replace with a new OEM starter.


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post #48 of 62 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 08:35 AM
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Question for the Honda wizards, if starter runs with direct power after taking nuts off, wouldn't the starter just need new terminal nuts for a better connection, and not a full rebuild (internals/brushes etc etc)?
I'm no wizard but I think I can answer your question. The reason the starter runs temporarily by disturbing the positive post is because the positive brush is either worn too short to maintain constant spring pressure contact with the commutator bars, or that brush is stuck in its brush holder (caused by corrosion buildup on the holder), preventing the brush from contacting the commutator bars.

The positive post has its brush lead spot welded onto the bottom of it on the square section of the stud. By disturbing the position of that post the brush lead may cause the brush itself to shift inside its brush holder a bit, make contact with the commutator and run momentarily.

Once the brushes are worn too short to maintain constant commutator contact at a specified minimum pressure (see the FSM for the minimum brush length spec) heavy arcing begins to occur on the copper commutator bars and destroys them quickly. But... if those worn out brushes are replaced before any commutator damage occurs the starter motor may provide a 2nd complete life cycle of service.

The commutator bars may last for several decades (brushes are engineered to be sacrificial, the commutator is not) provided those brushes are maintained in good condition. So its beneficial to the owner to take their starter motors apart periodically for inspection and replace worn parts as necessary.

Now about that tip I mentioned earlier... the brushes are made from a mixture of soft, conductive metals and contain a high percentage of graphite. Graphite is a useful conductive solid lubricant as you all know... the high graphite content in the brush metals lubricates the commutator bars. A thin layer of graphite is deposited on those bars over time which serves to minimize arcing on the moving surfaces as well, by filling tiny voids, scratches and imperfections on the surfaces left from the machining operations. That buildup may become glossy smooth and is very slippery, highly conductive and protective of the soft copper commutator bars.

SO, for as long as the commutator remains undamaged from any heavy arcing caused by worn/stuck brushes, leave that thin layer of graphite alone. Do not polish it off of there. Doing so introduces a new wear cycle and shortens the service life of the motor.

A bit long-winded ehh? :-)
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post #49 of 62 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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Just called the shop. They do not have an OEM starter in stock but could get 1 and itís $419. They do have a QuadBoss replacement in stock for $143. Anyone had experience with the QuadBoss starter? Iíve only used their bearings in the past.


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post #50 of 62 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 08:48 AM
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Hereís my theory on why it has failed. I believe the bike has had a carburetor leak at some time due to the engine discoloring under the carb which includes the starter. So my thinking is fuel has dripped onto and into the starter and done its destruction. Since Iím removing the starter I will either replace or rebuild it. Iím just that kind of person.
The starter motor is sealed. Fuel cannot get inside of it. You'll probably find that your starter motor is just worn slap out. It is probably too late to save it since the brushes were allowed to wear completely out... the commutator will be found destroyed, more'n likely. Take pics if you take it apart.


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