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Facts about oil

24K views 28 replies 14 participants last post by  catman 
#1 ·
I change my oil when it gets dark. It doesnt take long to get dark either, every few rides (we only ride about 10-20 miles per trip) I'd say it looks dingy so I change it. I keep a supply of atv oil around just for that purpose.

I love this topic.. Always a lot of different opinions, methods, and conception on why or when one's oil should be changed. There is only 1 wrong way, and that is when you never change your oil for the life of your machine, which is probably going to be short.
There is a lot of misconception on what is really happening to your oil as it lubricates, protects and cools your engine, or why does it get black, and what exactly is the oil filter doing to help my oil??????? I will try and explain to the best that I have understood and learned from my favorite Uncle, Uncle Jett, which is a Petroleum Engineer, Graduating from The University of Texas, and employed by Exxon for 29yrs in there research and development department(not really a department but something similar) there almost like a sister company to Exxon, carrying the Exxon logo, but showing on letter head "Advanced Research and technology of deep well petroleum(deep well is where all engine oil comes from)- A Exxon Company"
Sounds important to me. LOL. what they are trying to do rite now is to develop a oil that will shed 90% of it's contaminants, meaning the stuff that breaks down your oil, and the few things that make it black will no longer be able to mix with the oil, therefor letting the oil filter finally do what we all think it has been doing since oil has been used for lubricating a combustion engine. lol. The reason for the quote I posted is that the Camaro man got it the closet to the correct answer from the original question. "How often should I change my oil". And here is the break down: #1 factor in oil contamination is the carbon in the fuel we burn, and #2 is the temperatures at which the oil is subject to, very little is to blame on engine debris(the ultra fine metal dust that exists from metal to metal wear) Oil kind of acts like a mop, as long as the mop is not full of dirt it will keep picking up dirt, but as it gets closer to being full of dirt it will not pick up the dirt as efficiently. The black that we see in our oil is mostly, liquified carbon it is so fine, and the other portion of the black we see is caused by the heat the engine produces. Combustion chamber temps are actually slowly scorching the oil. Kind of like when you accidentally leave the stove on after making bacon, and you come back to a blackened mess in your wife's pan. So, Like the mop, when the oil turns black it is full of carbon and like the pan, scorched oil is not going to lubricate anything(try making some fried potatoes in that scorched pan)LOL. There is going to be a fire. LOL.
So if your changing your oil before it gets dark then it's like ringing out the mop just after a few strokes. If your using synthetic oil and you are still using it long after it has turned dark, (because it's SYNTHETIC) You are adding unnecessary wear to your engine with the carbon content of the oil being well over the limits of the oil. Synthetic oil was developed to reduce the amount of time it takes for the oil to scorch, thus giving it a higher temperature classification, and increasing the overall life of the oil based on scorch reduction only. So Synthetic is better, but for only 1 of the 2 major factors discussed.
The carbon issue is what there working on and have been working on for some time now. Uncle jett doesn't think it will be to much longer that we will see engine oil lasting 30,000 miles before it is full of carbon(dark) (and like the mob). Carbon shedding or shearing is what there calling it(TOP SECRET stuff). Like I said before, the oil will not have the ability to attach itself to the carbon, and therefor the oil filter can pick up the unattached carbon, therefore increasing the overall life of the oil based on carbon reduction only. Now combine this new technology with the technology already being used in synthetic oil, and engine oil will be revolutionized. Carbon free! and Heat resistant!
So here it is in a nut shell for all you "over excessive oil changers", all you "under excessive oil changers", and all you "BIG BEN/ Ramon calender oil changers". If you think you must because you will not sleep well if you don't by all means change your oil, and if you think because you paid $8.00 a quart for synthetic and you feel you need to get your moneys worth out of it by all means wait until it is black as black can be to change it. or if you are convinced that the manufacture's time or mile intervals have to be the best way because that's what Honda say's then by all means go by there guide lines. But if you want to get the Maximum life out of your oil because 29yr oil veteran/ Exxon petroleum engineer say's it's all about the COLOR then by all means follow Uncle Jetts advise. "As soon as it turns light black to med light black, it's done(full)."

Filters:
The oil filters we use on todays engines are 100% better than they were 30years ago, but they are still mainly only catching metal debris, and very little carbon. The carbon is being caught by the oil instead, because the filter cannot catch something that is permanently attached to the oil. This is why even after the oil has sat in a drum for a 100 years it is still black, so how can a filter get something out that wont even break down or separate after a 100 years. LOL
A high amount of carbon in your oil is like taking 2000 grit sand paper to every metal to metal connection in your engine, thus slowly sanding your tolerances out of there service limits.

Hope this clears up some of the misconceptions about engine oil. and hope I didn't confuse anyone? questions and comments are appreciated.
 
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#3 ·
The carbon issue is a bit more complex than described. Carbon in solution in the oil causes no problem until the oil is overwhelmed and the carbon deposits elsewhere in the engine. The carbon in the oil is too small to cause any significant wear problems. Once carbon is deposited in the engine it can then break loose at a later time and be a large enough piece to cause some damage but still too small to be caught by the filter.

In my 2007 Rancher, which has the 420 engine and is fuel injected, I have always used Amsoil's 0W40 4 stroke small engine oil which meets the JAS specs for the machine and has no additives to interfere with the clutches. I did some oil testing in the early days and found I could easily go 100 hours and/or 1200 miles and have oil that was still perfect for additional usage. The machine now has 7800 miles on it and the engine runs like new and there is no oil consumption in 1200 miles.

The additives in modern oils are fantastic and allow it to carry a large amount of contamination in solution or suspension and still do the necessary lubrication job. This means the crap is drained out when the oil is changed rather than filling the engine with harmful sludge. The color of the oil is of no use in determining when to change the oil.

All the best,
 
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#4 · (Edited)
01SSRedA4:... Good post buddy! Uncle Jett's suggestion to watch oil color is a very good engine, gear box saving 'garage' tactic! As a 25 year employee of PENNZOIL I too picked up some 'do's-don'ts' and well.."I dunno's"... One must also keep in mind USE of the equipment and again...checking lube oil color can give you a good que when to change. I used to race old VW BUG Dune Buggys. (OK..OK..you now know how old I am!)... the VW is kin to our Honda engines and gear boxes. Yes, the VW gear box does not use engine oil a lube. But, the engines are/were air cooled and used the engine oil, as, well..'the radiator' to cool things off, just like our Hondas. VW's do indeed have an oil cooler thus, circulated 'cooled' oil as it were, through the engine. So, after each 'race weekend' (dirt racing, not drags), I changed the oil. Back then, it was CHEAP..buck or so a quart. And, with an after market 'addition' one could add an oil filter as, a stock VW engine did NOT have an oil filter. I would have loved to ask one of the German Design engineers 'why no filter?'. (as, our Honda engineers added them to our air cooled power plants) And, really, many of the guys who raced back then, did as I did and thus, didn't bother with a filter as they had to add the after market upgraded oil pump and, well, they too changed it before each race.... Or,,,3 or 400 miles and the oil was changed.

Synthetics... Synthetics...Synthetics!! UGH... When these came out we in the AIR COOLED ENGINE COMMUNITY thought WOO HOO!! The answer to our heat related problems!! BUT..well.....not so fast.... Synthetics are specially refined and specially treated and have 'brand name' additives blended in the base oil to make the oil...Well.. PENNZOIL or AMZOIL or Valevoline, or Texaco, or Quaker State...or what ever. MOST synthetic lube oil providers buy the 'base' stock and blend away and put it in THEIR BOTTLES. The company that can do that the CHEAPEST and meet the API SPEC and still sell their oil..well...makes the money and that is why they are in business. 'In the old days'..most lube oil companies bought the base from the Canadians as they had the biggest syn oil plant on this planet and could sell the 'base oil' at 20 cents or so a gallon cheaper. This changed in the early 2000's when some USA lube oil companies built their own units. Or..so you know.. Pennzoil in the yellow bottle, didn't come from a Pennzoil refinery...the base came from Canada on rail cars and Pennzoil...what did I say "BLENDED AWAY" and put the stuff in the Yellow Bottle. OK,,,enough of this boring diatribe...WHY SYNTHETICS? Are the better than Non-Synthetics?

LUBE OIL...when it gets HOT or COLD...acts pretty much in the same way...it gets, well....CLUMPY and thick... If this is YOUR lube oil in your engine,,this is bad and you loose lubricity. The oil can't get to where it needs to be to do its job. Enter synthetics and they 'resist heat'. They can get hotter and still flow and still do their job. (same when it is cold...it still flows well at LOW temps) OK..cool. So..here...it is a 'give and take' situation. You're losing heat transfer from the metal to the oil, things get hotter, BUT...your gaining flow and lubricity at higher (and lower) temps. And, the oil in the oil cooler...well...the old oil cooler just doesn't seem to work as well at cooling the oil. 6 of one...1/2 dozen of the other.... OK..so what about Synthetic BLENDS? I suggest...buyer beware... There are no engine specs...or lube oil 'standards' for BLENDS... or, it is the wild west here... WHAT IS THE PER CENTAGE of the BLEND? 1% Synthetic and 99% standard lube oil? 50/50%? See...no 'standard specification'... Be careful when buying blends....Follow Engine manufacture specs for viscosity... and...be careful.. you may be paying a HIGH PRICE for a low end blend.
SO... IMHO... I do not use blends and I do not use synthetics in my air cooled engines. (except at extremely low temperatures) NOW..that said...In my water cooled engines... I use synthetics by religion. I like Royal Purple, (can tell you why it is purple and ID's as Purple in anther post). Some like AMZOIL. I have friends who 'get angry' when they see me pull out my Royal Purple as they are AMZOIL acolytes.

Oil additives.. STP..BERADYALS.. many others. Simply, I don't use them as i KNOW how PENNZOIL ENGINEERS THEIR OILS and I KNOW..ALL TO WELL,,, how Pennzoil screams, walks, talks, acts QUALITY BY DESIGN AND MANUFACTURING. And, if any of those products really enhanced their oils performance 'above' the spec...THEY WOULD ADD IT!... You want to SPEND EXTRA MONEY for them...GO FOR IT! (or just buy Royal Purple or Amzoil)... Again guys... the 'guy who can make the CHEAPEST OIL THAT WILL MEET THE API SPEC...MAKES THE MONEY.... So,,, if you stay with MAJOR BRANDS...(no after market MOM & POP, remanufactured oil)...BUY the right spec oil for YOUR ENGINE...you'll be fine.

OH..one last CHEMISTRY lesson...sorry..sorry... 90% of LUBE OILS ARE CARBON BASED LIQUIDS... IT IS MADE OF CARBON ATOMS... Now you can buy some silicone based oils and some others... but..they are SPECIALTY OILS for special uses..and,,well...PULL OUT YOUR CHECK BOOKS!
Lube oil, gasoline, Diesel, jet fuel, Naptha, all come from the SAME PLACE....'OUT OF A HOLE IN THE GROUND'...ALL ARE CARBON BASED liquids and thus...'fighting carbon' is indeed an issue,,,but..as the oil base is CARBON ATOMS...well...'we ain't gonna get away from it!"... it is in the oil and in the fuel and it is not going away....or,,,how we make it all behave to do a 'job' for us, when, where and how we want it to... is the Engineering and Chemistry issues.....(will offer some more hydrocarbon chemistry in next post)

When I have some more time, I'll continue to bore you all to tears with some inputs on filters and oil & GAS additives. God Bless...

Nose Dive
 
#5 ·
I feel like I'm on the BITOG forum all of the sudden! LOL

Interesting info Nose Dive.

Curious as to your thoughts on Rotella. I live in farm country so everyone carries it, it's JASO MA rated, and cheap. I ran the T4 15W40 for awhile, and still use it for new engine break in, but I found that when I switched to the 5W40 T6 that my fan didn't come on as often, and my footshifts shifter much smoother.

My friends with Rincons and Hondamatic Rubicons also noticed smoother shifts and less overheating problems when they got in the mud and their radiators got dirty.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Jeepwm69: Hay buddy.... Shell's Rotella.... OK

Shell bought the Pennzoil Company in the early 2000's. They bought the whole show. Lubes, fuels, refinery's, mid and down stream. So,,,the Pennzoil Tower in downtown became..well... a SHELL TOWER ...(still called Pennzoil Tower)... So, we all very quickly became SHELL EMPLOYEES and our R&D, engineering, production...everything got put in a pot and SHELL BLENDED all of the 'resources' together. But, we still have PENNZOIL in the yellow bottles and the Rotella ('Shell' product) in the silver bottle. I KNOW...KNOWLEDGE WAS shared as, well, when one buys a car, one needs to know how to drive it, yea? I don't know the specific changes to blending chemistry that took place, but, I do know Pennzoil engineers and Shell engineers spent a lot of time together and we all...well...'cross bred our knowledge, talent and experience'. I cannot tell you that what is in a yellow bottle of Pennzoil is the SAME LUBE OIL that is in a silver bottle of Rotella. My guess is both have changed a bit.

I do know Rotella is a fantastic lube oil and I believe, SHELL, as did Quaker State, (when Pennzoil bought Quaker State, again in the 2000's) upgraded their production systems and Quality Controls to meet Pennzoils. Quaker State in the 90's was struggling financially, and the 'rumor' in the lube industry was...well...let me just say...rumor was... some quality corners were cut. All this ended when Quaker State became a PENNZOIL owned and operated company. "WE" sent them some much needed 'help'. So, again...my opinion of ROTLELLA is it is a #1 Product. AND...>AND< You said the MAGIC WORD TO ME...."CHEAP"....

I didn't really 'talk through' the use or really, the NEED for synthetics. Or, IMHO, if one uses a GOOD LUBE OIL -ROTELLA-,,,the right manufacturers spec, viscosity..changes this oil per manufactures specs...uses the correct OIL FILTER, (very important).. and the equipment is used according to the manufactures 'designed spec use'.... again, IMHO, the need for a synthetic oil is 'extra expense' at a 'vague payback' per the increased investment. (note: you and the equipment are NOT in the Gobi Desert or Antarctica, yes?) special requirements there for sure...

I pay 'through the nose' for Royal Purple. But..I use it in, well, how do I say this... 'my last truck and tractor'. I do not plan to have to buy another in my life time and I got a good deal on two 55 gallon drums of RP. (or, my cousin has a friend who knows 'this guy')... So... I use the high end lubes.

So, let's move to a 'farming' operation for farm equipment. This stuff wears out and needs 'overhauls & replacements'. I again refer to your very important identifying word....CHEAP... Farming is an INVESTMENT OPERATION. Just like buying bonds. You BUY seed, feed, fertilizer, gas/diesel and of course...LUBE OIL... You also buy a 1000 other items in the effort to produce a CROP for SALE. Hopefully, the CROP SALES are sufficient to cover the PREVIOUS INVESTMENT COSTS of all the stuff you bought to produce that crop and, luckily, you have a bit left over to feed and clothe your family. This is just like buying a Stock today, hoping tomorrow, you can sell it for more than what you paid for it yesterday..or PROFIT. This is just like buying and spreading fertilizer. As it was explained to me in much the same way years ago by a Farm & Ranch Professor at TCU. One must be able to see MORE CROP PRODUCTION (aka PROFIT) from the fertilized field crop sales versus the non-fertilized field crop sales to cover the cost of the fertilizer. If no...your wasting your time, money, fertilizer. Or, if the fertilized field produces the same amount of crop as the non-fertilized field, again, you have LOST MONEY and wasted your time, energy and equipment wear and tear. So...let's get back to LUBE OIL COST with the above prose as our mindset.

If one can buy, operate, maintain ones equipment using Rotella at $6 per bottle, meet the jobs requirements, meet the equipment manufactures specifications...why buy Royal Purple at $25 per bottle? One will have to SHOW INCREASED CROP yields to justify the increased $19 per bottle expenditure. If one says..'wait' I will use 3 bottles of Rotella per season and only one bottle of Royal Purple', and still meet all above requirements,,,,then and only then will the Profit vs Loss calculation change.

OK...OK... WAKE UP EVERYBODY...don't be dozing off!

So..using a T4 vs a T6 blend of Rotella? Engine specs being met, yes?,, If the oil 'feels and seems' to enhance your equipment performance... same price, yea?...well IMHO... go for it. Different pieces of equipment, in different locations, under different conditions do indeed perform differently and if on blend 'helps performance'...well....isn't this what you are laying down your hard earned money to achieve?

God Bless my friend,

Nose Dive

PS: I agree with HOWIE120 above...'carbon in a lube oil solution' is indeed a bit more complex issue than color.
 
#7 ·
Very informative.

I prefer to change more frequently than buy "long life" oil. I use Wix filters in the ATV's, Bosch or Denso in the vehicles.

For years I only used Castrol GTX in my cars, and it served me well, but as I've gotten older I've become a little more open to the idea that most are sufficient as long as the change intervals are kept. Here lately I've been buying what I find on closeout at Walmart. Picked up a bunch of Castrol Edge for $7/gal last year, so that's going in Mazda and the Lexus. My old beater Accord gets whatever 30 weight I happen to have, which currently is Delo 10W30, which was $4/gal. When that runs out I have some 10W30 T5 Rotella that was cheap (don't remember exactly what I paid for it, but it was CHEAP).

I change every 5K on the wife's rigs and the Accord, and every 3K on the Jeeps and my 83 GMC, since they tend to have more "Around town" use with few highway miles.

Overkill? Yep, but oil is cheap, engines aren't.

My ATV's get a change every 500 miles. I like to change on that interval for simplicity's sake. Even to know it needs to be changed on the even 500-1K instead of trying to remember when it was changed last, and with all the vehicles and ATV's I have it got tedious to try to keep records for every item, and I don't sell stuff, so easy just to set easy to note intervals and stick with them.
 
#8 ·
Jeepwm69: Good oil change policy and maintenance plan buddy. Also....please remember two more things...

1. TIME,,,yes TIME..and HEAT and COLD breakdown an lube oils ability to do its job. So...Like me...having my 400 Foreman sit up for 3 years while I was in Africa...well....yes...it 'looked good', 'smelled good', 'tasted good'...but TIME breaks down the additives and detergents and it needs to be kept fresh. I changed the engine and all gear box oils.

2. Please don't try to 'OUT SMART' the ASLE Engineers at Shell, Texaco, Mobil...etc..etc..etc..
by this i mean trying to 'get to Dallas via Paris'... Simply...'don't mix oils' of different brands and viscositys. Simply here...the oil additives from SHELL WILL NOT 'blend and compliment' the oil additives from anyone else. The companies use DIFFERENT CHEMICAL ADDITIVES and they DO NOT MIX... Shells Rotella's detergent can cause a chemical reaction with say...hmm Chevron's and make a 'gel' that will stick to anything and everything in the gear/crank case and this stuff turns to acids when heated...then... well...you have added an ACID SOLUTION TO YOUR CRANKCASE. Not good.

God Bless my friend.

Nose Dive
 
#9 ·
Oh my OCD would never allow putting different oils in at the same time. I tend to buy oil in large quantities when I find a deal, so while from time to time I do change from one oil to another, it isn't often, and of course, I'm not adding to oil that is in the crankcase.

I am curious as to the idea of oil "breaking down" without being used. This seems to me to be akin to water and salt expiring.

Oil itself is millions of years old. How would it break down by simply sitting in an engine that isn't being run? I can understand that condensation could contaminate it over time, but does oil really "expire"? Only way I can see that happening is if you have additives that break down over time, which wouldn't be the oil itself.

Don't get me wrong. As a general rule of thumb if there's a question, I change it. Again, oil is cheap while engines are not, but I don't know that I can buy in on the idea that oil sitting in a unused engine just goes bad. It didn't go bad in the ground waiting to be pumped out, and it doesn't go bad sitting in a bottle on the shelf. What exactly causes it to "expire"?

Not trying to be contentious for the sake of being contentious, but I do have to smirk at the idea of the idea we have now that everything has an expiration date and has to be tossed if you don't use it by that date.

I'm genuinely curious as to what, other than contamination from outside, would cause oil to go bad merely sitting in an engine that isn't being run.

Adding, I reread your post, and you did say that the additives and detergents, not the actual oil, break down over time. Is this by design? LOL
 
#10 ·
I too would wonder how oil sitting in a motor can break down, as what's the difference if oil sits in a bottle then?

I can understand how a few heat cycles might add to something, but I don;t see new oil in a motor that sat a Long time going bad
I would maybe see how oil that sat in a used motor could collect things that maybe over time came off parts and landed in the bottom
new oil does also clean, so, that could play into things here

but don;t think really the oil went bad, just, more about peace of mind maybe?
but if you RUN this motor after sitting so long, I doubt you would get all the crap out that settled, as it would now be all mixed up again! and could stick in corners or?? and not come out at oil drain any how?

I guess there is now 100% winning way on oil LOL

but better to change it more often than NOT enough IMO!
 
#11 ·
An old friend used to work for an oil refinery, I vaguely remember him saying that oil does separate after a few cycles and if in contact with old oil or other contaminants. I guess contaminants could be old oils, different brand oils maybe even moisture within the motor.

I always use an engine flush before replacing oils, i then top up with fresh oil and run for several hours then replace the oil again. It may be overkill but to me it makes sense.

When I had my 300 mud bike I replaced all oils whenever the bike got submerged in water/mud. Oil is cheaper than, diff and motor rebuilds!

Best advice to all who may read this, follow the maintenance schedule provided by the manufacturer and you won’t go far wrong.
 
#12 ·
OK GENTS... this is ole Nose Dive...want to reply to all but... gee fellas.. just spent 5 hours butchering 4 feral sow pigs and well....am out of gas,,,out of patience and out of time...am hungry and Momma says "get in and eat or dogs get your portion!"...

Will respond to the OLD OIL statements tomorrow.... TIME,,,HEAT...COLD... it works on lube oil LIKE IT WORKS ON ME!!

God Bless fellas

Nose Dive....
 
#13 ·
OK gang.. after a bowl of deer chili and some tortillas,, and 3.5 ounces of Her Majesty's Finest London Dry Gin, (as measured, dispense and supervised by the Female In Charge of this farm) and a shower... I can offer the below prose.. hope it helps..

Hay gang… whoooo! Didn’t think my question about my sticky float pin would lead me to all this ‘old oil refinery’ hand submissions. BUT…I LIKE IT… (yea..I too spend 45 years in refineries, Petro-chem, pharmaceutical plants,..Upstream, midstream and downstream.. on shore.. off shore..USA, Mexico, Africa)

So… TIME, COLD, HOT.. why does it degrade lube oil. Most agree, I think about the heat and cold, yes?..So..I did address TIME DEGREADATION and that prompted some questions… so…here goes… (this is what I learned while employed by Pennzoil/Shell) OK…OK..Valero, Texaco, Mobil, Chevron, Apache…

TIME AND LUBE OIL…
Let’s back up a bit and address OIL.. it is indeed MILLIONS OF YEARS old and ..well…if it did not degrade..we would have TAR or pitch..… not the oil that pumps out of the ground today.. and…it is NASTY stuff coming out of the ground…nasty… in some places..the oil is so bad…the FIELD COLLECTION folks have to wear gas masks at it has SULFUR DIOXIDE GAS which,,,if inhaled,,,in enough quantity ..will KILL human beings… did I say NASTY?... CRUDE oil is just that,,,crude.. it contains all kinds of stuff and all that comes out of the ground is NOT THE SAME.. Oil from Kuwait is not the same oil out of West Texas…or …Pennsylvania…and it has different sales prices…see WTI crude prices vs other grades…So…when it gets to the USA or any refinery..it is BLENDED in tank farms to reduce and dilute the nasties so when it is sent through the ‘refinery’…it behaves much better…and…’things are added’… to help processing… CRUDE OIL IS CRUDE AND NASTY…. Refining does just that..it ‘refines and cleans up’ the nasty stuff… so..we can make nice clean, clear gasoline…naptha..propane… AND…we get LUBE OIL STOCKS too. And, since we are discussing LUBE OIL…let’s focus there.
With out too much organic chemistry… I’ll just say that lube stock is ‘something heavier’ than gas and fuel stocks. Or, gas it taken off and some lube stock is left… heavier,,,thicker,,,darker.. Gas and Naptha are cleaner, lighter and more explosive. Both will ignite. And,,in the late 90’s someone thought to HYDRO TREAT THE LUBE STOCK and form it,,clean it.. make the hydrocarbon chains more uniform and they called it SYNTHEITIC and it is VERY DIFFICUCLT TO MAKE IT.. High temperatures… high pressures..very volatile components… say…900 PSI at 600 F and very exotic metals and piping and gasses and catalysts. MORE THAN ONE REFINERY has blown up processing this stuff…more than one…(ask me how, when, where I know) OK..let’s just say now…for the sake of privity…we have some nice, clean, sweet processed LUBE OIL STOCK… OK? So now where do we got to get this stuff into your cars engine?
Lube oil companies, mainly start from the same LUBE OIL FEED STOCK… the same stuff is used by all…they sell and buy it between themselves… or ..” I’m out,,,Joe Bob has some,,,I’ll buy it’…easy enough there yes? OK..we start from the same bucket…NON SYNTHETIC now… OK?
So,,I take the lube stock…add my company’s stuff……hmm let’s see here..
1. Detergents to keep things in solution
2. Anti-degradants to keep my stuff up to snuff
3. Surfactants to help cleanliness
4. Viscosity enhancers to keep my stuff flowing at:
a. Low temps
b. High temps
c. Long stages of ‘sitting still’ in the ‘bucket, can, crankcase’..
5. ‘molecular’ metal balls to fill the gaps in the crankcase
6. CLAY..(this is old technology. But it WAS ADDED TO LUBE OIL) to smooth out the rough spots on the crank and drive shaft
7. [so..you see? By now? WE add stuff to the lube stock so the oil does its job…when…where,,how.. WE,,ME,,YOU want it too]
Know keep in mind…this is LUBE OIL…not HYDRAULIC OIL..If one puts LUBE OIL in a HYDRUALIC OIL reservoir….LOOK OUT DICK!! YOUR IN BIG TROUBLE!! (the additives in LUBE oil will attack and degrade the rubber O Rings in hydraulic equipment… the hydraulics will FAIL and FAIL FAST>.. (use your head here)
OK.. I said my 02 Foreman sat up for 3 years while I was in Africa. True. Oil in cases,,gas in tank and carburetor…(had to get to Africa fast to get good job $!) You know story about carburetor.. changed it. You to can read above…ALL OIL CASES had oil changed.. why? TIME..>TIME…TIME…
After a period of TIME.. CHEMICALS DEGRADE and react with the ‘OIL” The hydrocarbons which make up our gas and lube oils. IT GOES BAD.. MIGHT LOOK GOOD…SMELL GOOD..>TASTE GOOD…but the CHEMSITRY OF THE ADDITIVES has gone south and you need to change the oil… I know, many where I live, let tractors and equipment sit for..well..years…take a new battery and get in the saddle and crank things up. OK.. In 2019 the Chemistry is better than 2002. I agree. BUT.. sitting in 105 F temps…then -10 F temps…rains,, snows. For months and months… .OK..it is their equipment and not mine. I know now…OF NO lube oil chemistry that will endure a few years of that treatment. in an idle crankcase…OR BOTTLE… Now…go to Standard Auto Parts…AUTOZONE… they MOVE OIL AND LUBES…you will, or should not see a bottle of three or two year old oil BUT..TODAY…I would buy a quart and put it in my …hmmm lawn mower…but not may bike, car, truck or tractor… SAME…to me..goes for CRANKCASE LUBE… yes…yes..yes…I AM ON RECORD on these pages for using ROYAL PURPLE.. and..YES…you are too using RP if you own a FORD.. (its in your differential..change it at 100K)..
So.. my last offering here on this topic…NOTHING LASTS FOR EVER and NOTHING …NOTHING IS RESILENT TO TIME.. (or heat, or cold, or neglect)

God Bless all…

Nose Dive…
 
#14 · (Edited)
just a short question? that oil i bought in the yellow bottle, 3-4 years ago, is shot. :eek:eek
some was 30W, some was 10W-30, or other mixes..
 
#16 ·
LedFTed: Oil sitting in your barn for three years? Unopened..well... It would be like drinking some 3 year old PeptoBismol. It is 'just like' the day you bought it? No. Would it help your upset stomach....probably...but, before I would use either...I'd run to Walmart and buy a new bottle.

I would use the oil in my lawn mower for a season. But, really..three years in the barn.....The additive package in the solution has indeed degraded. Yes...yes...yes Pennzoil and all others add preservatives to keep it 'right' and pretty. But.. I just would not put it in my heavy equipment, my bikes or cars... but...that is just me... Now,,,if it is ALL YOU HAVE,,,in an EMERGENCY...yes..it would be much better to use than pouring water into a gear box... You might think about putting it in an oil can where you squirt it on open shafts, bike chains and things like that... hope this helps.

Nose Dive
 
#17 ·
Do What Makes You Happy/Sleep Well

This is a long post.
The subject of oil and filters has been discussed extensively on a pick up truck forum I belong to.
Members use every type oil and filter there is.
From store shelf brands of oil to Redline, Amsoil, Mobil 1 etc.
Oil filters from Fram, K&N, Mobil, Wix, Royal Purple etc.

My 2 cents.

I tow with my trucks.
Living in Colorado I pull grades.

I have used name brand oil including Super Tech for years.
If it meets OEM spec, good enough.

I used to put a lot of miles(retired) on my trucks being in construction.
Always do 3 K mile oil and filter changes.
I could do a filter and oil change for $20 with Super Tech and a fleet filter.

I have bought used vehicles all my life. Never owned a new one.
Buy them 3 or 4 years old with 40- 50 K miles.
Have never had an engine failure.
Last truck I drove for 21 years.

I have used fleet oil filters for years. You can buy them at auto stores by the dozen. They meet OEM spec.
Same filter the fast lube joint's (Jiffy Lube) use. Millions of these filters on vehicles.
Most fast lube joints have a commercial account with a local auto store that supplies these filters.

Up until I bought my used 2012 GMC Sierra in November of 2015 with 41 K miles on it I used regular or dino oil in our vehicles.
The Sierra had a manufacturers warranty and to keep it in good standing I was required to use a Dexos 1 certified oil.
This meant changing to a semi synthetic oil to get the Dexos 1 rating.
Still used a fleet filter on the Sierra.

The Sierra now has 65 K miles on it.
My mileage per year has dropped since retiring.
I will be switching to a full synthetic oil and a better filter on my next oil change.
The wife's car will be switched over also. 105 K miles on a 2007.

We don't drive as many miles so this justify's the extra cost to me.

Changing your oil and filter is the key.

I will never do extended oil change intervals that the new vehicle computers recommend.

Lots of people go 7500 or more.

I have said for years that oil is like a sponge. The sponge gets saturated with water, the extra water exits the sponge.
Oil can hold a limited amount of engine contaminants then it becomes saturated also.
Once the oil is saturated and the filter elements are full the contaminants are deposited inside the engine.
Sludging of the engine is the result.


This is what I do.
You do what makes you happy.

P.S.
I use Valvoline synthetic 10W40 JASO II in my 2003 Rincon and a Fram filter.
Changed every 500 miles.
Riding around in our area there are a lot of grade changes.
Mountain trails with lots of steep grades and with 2 people(wife) on the ATV I sleep better.
Also used to plow snow.

:)
 
#18 ·
I sold my 93 Honda Accord with 360K on it. For the first 150K or so I religiously changed oil every 3750 miles as recommended in the manual. After that I started doing it every 5K miles simply because my miles were all highway miles and at the time both Honda and Toyota had changed their oil change interval to 5k miles. That car still ran great, got 30+ miles per gallon, and didn't use a drop of oil. The engine was never touched other than oil and plug changes and timing belts as scheduled.

I did shy away from the orange Fram filters after seeing a post on BITOG where different filters were dissected. The "orange can o death" looked a little shaky so I started using Bosch, or if I did use Fram I opted for the extra guard.

I buy filters for both my vehicles and ATV's on Rockauto. Shipping adds substantially to the price, and you have to watch and make sure that everything you are ordering is coming from the same warehouse or shipping will eat your lunch, but I order a dozen or so oil filters at a time so shipping doesn't hurt since I seldom have to place an order. Gets the net cost per filter way down.
 
#19 · (Edited)
sitting

the oil i got, most of it sit in the basement, over to me mums. 56-58f in the winter, 60-63f in the summer. some however i kept in my shed. the shed has been through weather extremes. if it ends up chain oil for bicycles, i got a lot of it. both in the basement and the shed..
as far as beer, the best budweiser i ever had, was sitting in the bottom of a bar cooler, over 5 years.. the can design had changed twice. i wish budweiser could still make beer like that. they make quantity beer now, instead of quality beer. that happens in much manufacturing.. :crying :crying
oil aint beer.. i can say that for a fact. maybe one of my most truer statement's.. :grin
 
#20 ·
GUYS...DIYER is dead on...ROUTINE MAINTENANCE [OK...OK.. your reading stuff from a 40 year or so refinery MAINTENANCE ENGINEER}..using SPEC parts and lubes... Dead on.. Do per manufacturers specs and cycles... Use good, new lubes...good NEW FUELS... Good new filters... I attest and swear by NEW STUFF on a cycle... it works...

Additives.. Synthetics.. man...pay your money... follow procedures and cycles...

Jeepwm69-- I too have shied away from FRAM years ago and went to WIX oil and air filters..... will not post here why...

God Bless you guys...

Nose Dive.
 
#22 ·
Man I sure didn't realize how hard my original post is to read! I didn't state that my objective was to try and simplify all the scientific stuff and put in laymen terms, but it looks like...man, wow ok I have to work on that post! Can you edit a sticky?
 
#23 ·
An oil thread From 2014 ? I wouldn't worry about it...... These guys get fired up oil threads... I'd leave that one alone..... And start a new one! :grin
 
#24 ·
True! True! True!
 
#26 ·
Myths !!!! Shell Rotella T4 15W40 is the best oil available to an ATV --- if you believe in the code on the top the bottles , you must believe in global warning being man made , also so there is no help for you , anyways !!!! If you live in the frozen tundra of the great white north , then maybe go with some 0-50W LOL
 
#27 ·
I use the Rotella T6 5W40, year round. I live in the Far North...
 
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