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Fixing Electronic Shift (ES) problems

367K views 203 replies 71 participants last post by  raphaelpomerleaumori 
#1 ·
Many of us have Electric Shift (ES) models. In fact, Honda sells approximately EIGHT times as many ES models for every foot-shift model sold. The ES models are very reliable. But, because of the number of ES machines that are sold and owned, it sometimes seems that there are more difficulties with ES shifting than with manual shifting. Unfortunately, there has been one problem with ES shifting that has affected many ES owners at one time or another: The problem is that, at times, when you make a shift (up or down) on an ES machine, the shift is not complete. You can hear the shift motor trying to make the shift when you press a shift button <->, but no shift occurs and, at times, you receive a - - - display. The problem occurs even more often when it is cold outside.
Fortunately, the answer/fix to the problem is really very easy! The problem is caused by very heavy, stiff, gummy grease that was installed in the shift motor gears at the factory. Once that grease is removed and replaced with a different grease, you'll be back to shifting normally! So, here's how you replace that grease: Remove the shift motor and gears (all one piece) from the lower front of your engine. There are normally four 10mm bolts that hold it on. Once you have it loose and off, you will see that in the gears, there is some very thick, gummy, stiff grease. Clean out all of that grease. (You can use a solvent such as paint thinner to get it all out). When cleaning the grease out, do be careful not to disturb the position that the gears are in. Once all the old grease is out, replace that grease with a generous amount of ALL-TEMPERATURE, WHITE LITHIUM GREASE. (That grease is available from any auto parts store.) After you've put the new grease in the gears, reassemble the shift motor/gears back onto the engine/transmission. Snug up the 10mm bolts, but don't over-tighten them. You should now be good to go!
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Note.... I have brought both this problem, and this fix, to the attention of Honda Powersports. They have been very responsive to me and have assured me that they will not only let their dealers know of this fix, but that they will revise the grease that they put into future models.
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I hope this helps you! ..........Ride Safely...........Have Fun!
 
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#3 ·
I am thoroughly impressed. From everything I've ever heard Honda is awful when it comes to customer service and doesn't listen to anything from anybody. Although these are all just what I've gathered from what I have heard.
 
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#5 ·
Does this work for the DCT models that have the selectable ES such as my 2014 TRX420 Rancher does? If so, does it help with shifting when in automatic shifting mode?

Wayne
 
#6 ·
To Kentco, the OP - thanks for the instructions! My 2014 ES Rancher performs better than any other ES machine I have ridden and I am positive it is because of this fix. I did it right of the bat when I bought mine brand new and she has worked like a champ!

The synthetic oil does great for me and the shifts, too!
 
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#8 ·
Guys!.... You don't even need a service manual to take the shift motor & gears off. They are held onto the outside of the engine by four 10mm bolts. Remove those bolts, unplug the electrical connector, and it will be in your hands. From there, clean out all the old, original gummy, stiff grease, and replace that grease with a liberal amount of new All-temp White Lithium grease.

I have closed this thread to new replies. Therefore, if you are having shifting problems, please start a new thread.
 
#9 · (Edited)
my shift motor did not have any grease. when i loosened motor to look at armature, drive gear from motor was easier to turn, when i tightened it was binding. i got new motor, worked after that. leave it to me to find the odd problem. i spent hours going through wiring. least they got dielectric grease on connectors now. //Ed
 
#11 ·
my shift motor did not have any grease. when i loosened motor to look at armature drive gear was easier to turn, when i tightened was binding. i got new motor, worked after that. leave it to me to find the odd problem. i spent hours going through wiring. least they got dielectric grease on connectors now. //Ed
That's interesting. I had what I think is the same issue yesterday working on this 420AT. It was kinda shifting, but would throw error code 22 more often than not between every gear. I took the motor off and inspected it, and when I put it back together it wouldn't shift at all. I figured it was bound up, took it back off, turned the gears a little, and put it back on and it's doing a little better, but still throws the 22 code about every other shift.

I am NOT liking the ES stuff. My footshifts don't have these problems. The ONLY reason I'm messing with an ES machine is because the wife wanted an automatic and I found this 420AT close by.
 
#13 ·
Kentco, you're the man! I'm going to try this either this afternoon or the next. Located on the front of the engine? the side? Doesn't sound too difficult, think I'll just have to google the location and what it looks like. Hopefully not too much plastic has to come off for the 2016 Ranchers.
 
#14 ·
Avery, Please don't use google. Otherwise, you'll be burdened by future 'pfishing' (from google) as well as malware from their advertisers.

The shift motor is located on the lower front of your engine. No plastic (or anything else) has to come off. The easiest way to get to it is if you have a winch. :) If you do, pull your atv into the garage. Connect your winch cable to an overhead rafter, and pull the front end of your Rancher up so that the atv is standing on it's rear wheels. Good luck, it's an easy (yet, very effective) project.
Best Regards,
Kent
 
#15 ·
I appreciate the help! One last question I swear. I'm searching for this magical "all temperature white lithium grease" and am getting a very wide range of results. Between aerosols (I don't see how that'll help) and bottles and tubs. Which brand, size tube, did you use and where did you buy it. I was going to run by AutoZone on the way back to the house this afternoon, but you can't usually trust them to be much help.

Thanks again!
 
#16 · (Edited by Moderator)
#19 ·
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#20 ·
That is a good diagram ATC, thanks!

On a sunnier not, I just got inside from ruining my shift motor. I obviously have no idea what I was doing and had no business trying this myself I guess. I don't consider myself a mechanic, but I am fairly mechanically inclined. I really hope that they aren't too expensive.

BTW, the 2016 has SO MUCH stuff in the way. I took off the main bottom skidplate to gain better access to the shift motor and it was still a pain to get too. When I replace it, I may have to take more plastic off. I have no idea how you guys are getting to it without doing it.

**Here's what smart me did!**

1) Don't have a winch currently installed so lift it by myself and set it on it's hind end. A lot heavier than it looks.
2) Realized my fat forearms weren't going to fit where the motor was (easy to find by sight by the way, you were right) I started taking the (7 I think, some had already fallen out on the trails I guess) bolts holding on the main skidplate.
3) I started to fight with the inner fender guards using a small socket wrench and 10mm socket (I found 3 bolts holding it on)
4) Proceeded to fight with the electrical connection (this is my life, I'm almost certain you all didn't have this much trouble).
5) I got it off, and started looking at it and where it came from. In my mind, surely you guys weren't going deeper into the trans, so I proceeded to take out the two allen bolts holding the motor together.
6) Got the motor open, and I was just too excited I guess to think, wondered "hmmmm where is all the gummy grease?" Applied white lithium grease. Lots of white lithium grease. Lots.
7) Realized after I put the two allen bolts back in to close up the motor that I had just cuffed up, big time. Don't know why that was the first time this whole time that I thought....about anything. Put it all back together anyway.
8) Didn't put the skid plate back on, and didn't put it back on all 4s knowing that if it didn't do what I wanted that I would just have to pick it back up again.
9) Turned key on, and no 'N'. All I got was a morse code type error.
2 long -, followed by 4 quick flashing
--- --- - - - -
:icon_ owned:

So questions are as follows (please don't beat me up too much, I've beat myself up enough I think):
- Does anyone know that error code off hand?
- What the heck else was I supposed to take off of the engine to do this? I don't see a way that i can even get back any further than I did.

You all made it sound so easy.......:hail:

Thank you all in advance, you've been a great help thus far.
 
#21 ·
#23 ·
Hi: You don't take the shift motor apart --- you remove the cover where the shift motor went into and clean out the old grease --- put white lithium grease on them gears --- also if you removed the spindle gear it has to aligned with the shift shaft.
 
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#24 ·
So after what seemed a lifetime, I got my new shift motor. $80 lesson learned. I'm trying to upload a photo of it, but iPhone won't cooperate. Must be the Feds. Anywho, there was a very, very small amount of grease on the grease. I went ahead and loaded the lithium grease in there like it was my job. Rode it around a little, g2g now. Thanks guys. Subject for a new post, oil smelled funny and was a little golden when I just changed it....hmmmm. Should be better now!
 
#26 ·
UPDATE:

The Rancher shifts much much smoother and gets into the next gear much faster than it did before. This weekend was the first time I had really ridden it "hard" (maybe 20 miles) and tested out the grease fix. I had it happen to me twice where the display went "-" in the middle of a gear change. It's easy enough to get it back into N and i think the grease has something to do with that, but damn you pay so much money for a four wheeler and this happens? I dealt with it and probably will continue to.

Maybe a bad idea, but we traded my wife's Recon in on a new Rancher with ESP and solid rear, so basically mine without the IRS. It was the first weekend she had ridden it really at all; it only had 3 hours on it when we showed up to my buddy's house. I was thinking that it was a fluke, mine was just a bad egg. Well, her Rancher read "-" at one point too. BUT, this was different, it was an error code. ---- ---- - -. 22. Something to do with the Shift Angle Sensor I suspect and have heard about problems with these as well. Turned it off, put it in N like I have to do with mine, restarted it, and never had another problem with it. Come on HONDA!

Should've stuck with the foot shift.
 
#27 · (Edited by Moderator)
Avery: There is always a bright side to every experience. In this case:
  1. It was a major learning experience for you :)
  2. You saved a GREAT deal of money over that which a dealer would have charged for the same thing. :)
  3. You are shifting smoother now! :)

My compliments to you for hanging in there, for not giving up, and especially for being SO humble and admitting your mistakes to the thousands of people who look at the forum. YOU are the kind of person I would want to help repair MY atv! :)
 
#28 ·
Avery: There is always a bright side to every experience. In this case:
1. It was a major learning experience for you :)
2. You saved a GREAT deal of money over that which a dealer would have charged for the same thing. :)
3. You are shifting smoother now! :)

My compliments to you for hanging in there, for not giving up, and especially for being SO humble and admitting your mistakes to the thousands of people who look at the forum. YOU are the kind of person I would want to help repair MY atv! :)
You are absolutely right. I have learned a lot and saved some money along the way. I appreciate the kind words and encouragement. You are the most helpful person I've come across on any one of the forums I belong to: F150forum, OilBurners, FSB, and of course this one.
 
#32 ·
Broken shift spindle? J-B weld

As an update to my problem I was able to get out the little piece using the marine grade J-B weld on the end of the old spindle and putting it back into place and the next day pulled the spindle with the little piece stuck to the end of it. I tried 3 times with some 2 year old original strength J-B weld with no luck, I wasn't able to roughen up the little piece inside the engine case and the marine grade still took to it. :yeahbaby01:
 

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#33 ·
Ok I am new to this and just looking for some help.

I recently purchased a 2000 Honda rancher 350 TE and I am having trouble with the shifting of the fourwheeler. When I turn the key on, no codes flash or anything, and you can shift through all gears with fourwheeler off, both up and down. Now when I start the thing and start running through the gears, if I don't give it full throttle and just "putt" through the gears everything is fine, it will shift both up and down. but if I get into fourth gear and throttle wide open, it won't allow me to shift into fifth, or back down into third, I have to turn the fourwheeler off and turn it back on and everything goes back to normal, it is not an intermittent problem, it does this every time. I read on one forum where someone said the angle sensor being bad would cause this, mine wasn't coding bad, but I went ahead and changed it.

The speedometer does not work, and when the wire connectors are plugged together for the speedometer, my gear position doesn't read, but if I unplug the speedometer, the gear position will read correctly.

I know this is a long shot but I am very frustrated and figure it cant hurt but to try and ask others with loads more knowledge then I have on these things..

Thank you all for taking the time to read my thread and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Bryce
 
#185 ·
Ok I am new to this and just looking for some help.

I recently purchased a 2000 Honda rancher 350 TE and I am having trouble with the shifting of the fourwheeler. When I turn the key on, no codes flash or anything, and you can shift through all gears with fourwheeler off, both up and down. Now when I start the thing and start running through the gears, if I don't give it full throttle and just "putt" through the gears everything is fine, it will shift both up and down. but if I get into fourth gear and throttle wide open, it won't allow me to shift into fifth, or back down into third, I have to turn the fourwheeler off and turn it back on and everything goes back to normal, it is not an intermittent problem, it does this every time. I read on one forum where someone said the angle sensor being bad would cause this, mine wasn't coding bad, but I went ahead and changed it.

The speedometer does not work, and when the wire connectors are plugged together for the speedometer, my gear position doesn't read, but if I unplug the speedometer, the gear position will read correctly.

I know this is a long shot but I am very frustrated and figure it cant hurt but to try and ask others with loads more knowledge then I have on these things..

Thank you all for taking the time to read my thread and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Bryce
Bryce did you ever get this sorted out? I'm have a similar problem. I'm thinking it could be a faulty meter unit but wanted to see if you had a remedy first.
 
#35 · (Edited)
I have 2016 Rubicon w/ 21 hours, I have had this prob with the fault malfunction - flashing,it want shift into gear, makes no sound,I turn it on and off , rock it back and forth, not temp sensitive,if it does go into gear then it goes into fault - then its in gear and want restart with - flashing, took it in to my dealer thought was still in warranty, It was out by 8 days, my fault thinking thats just part of dealing with the es, The dealer said the oxygen sensor was making it go into fault mode ,flashing -, I didn't believe it,still Dont believe thats what was wrong, t They said they were going try and get Honda do goodwill, said they would cover it that the atv still looked new,I even took my cover because they set them outside untill they work on them,its never been in the mud or even rained on. got it back working then next day it stopped, found manual on line did the dia, it has code 42, when thru all the connections etc, reset the computer , it clicked about 2 times then went back to fault 42, called Honda they said I need take it back, they wold document i, They acted like they were the one that would authorize the good will warranty after the dealer ck's it out.Then Honda said it was up to the dealer and the locall Honda regional rep named Sam to do a goodwill warranty, with it being out of warranty Im betting they want cover it, especially after guessing at the oxygen sensor. im guessing its in the harness,shift motor/sen,ecm. Ive read the angle sensor could cause it but with the code 42?

what do youall think?

Im guessing Ill end up having to fix it myself, going thru the steps in the manual.etc.

Thanks for any help

Rob:mad:
 

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#36 ·
Kentco, et al.,

I have a 2012 Rancher 420FPE (electric shift). While plowing snow in February, the ES started acting up. Here are the symptoms and what I've done since:

1. Wouldn't go from 1st to 2nd gear, but would go into reverse (in fact, when placing it in reverse, it would jump from directly from 1 to R with one push on down button).

2. A couple times, if I could get it to 2nd or 3rd and ride around a bit, then everything would work well until the next time I started the machine.

3. Then, when trying to shift into 1st, it would click as if it were going into first--and the 1 would appear on the screen--but then drop back to neutral ("N").

4. Pressing the up shift button several times, I could eventually get it into first.

5. Now, it will only go into reverse or neutral, no forward shifting.

6. I pulled, cleaned, and reassembled the shift motor.
7. Also pulled the cover the shift motor is mounted to in order to check the gears, etc. Nothing broken or worn in there.

So here are my questions:

1. First, I made the mistake of not checking the orientation of the gears under the cover, so what procedure would you recommend in order to get them back in proper places?

2. Once things are back in place--and if nothing changes--what do you think the shifting issue might be?

*Dealer told me it was most likely a battery issue, that the battery was now five years old and ready to be replaced. I charged it (12.5 volts) and still no change in the shifting problem.

*A local, independent ATV repair tech told me this morning it is most likely the shift motor, and that I should just replace it (worn brushes, that sort of thing).

3. I have also read that the shift angle sensor could be the culprit--what do you think? I'm not sure where it is on the 2012 420FPE, but the local tech said it was built into the shift motor.

Anyway, thanks for any help any of you might be able to give to this newbie to the forum.

Sincerely,

HCSMAN
 
#37 ·
When reinstalling the gears there is a 2 marks to align the arm. Make sure you clean all old grease out and only use lithium when regreasing and make sure bearing are fine as well. Get your battery load tested if you need a battery get it. If your battery load tests ok then it will be good for now. Some have said it's easier to winch the front up in the air to assist in reassembly. After these steps let us know the results


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