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Fixing Electronic Shift (ES) problems

367K views 203 replies 71 participants last post by  raphaelpomerleaumori 
#1 ·
Many of us have Electric Shift (ES) models. In fact, Honda sells approximately EIGHT times as many ES models for every foot-shift model sold. The ES models are very reliable. But, because of the number of ES machines that are sold and owned, it sometimes seems that there are more difficulties with ES shifting than with manual shifting. Unfortunately, there has been one problem with ES shifting that has affected many ES owners at one time or another: The problem is that, at times, when you make a shift (up or down) on an ES machine, the shift is not complete. You can hear the shift motor trying to make the shift when you press a shift button <->, but no shift occurs and, at times, you receive a - - - display. The problem occurs even more often when it is cold outside.
Fortunately, the answer/fix to the problem is really very easy! The problem is caused by very heavy, stiff, gummy grease that was installed in the shift motor gears at the factory. Once that grease is removed and replaced with a different grease, you'll be back to shifting normally! So, here's how you replace that grease: Remove the shift motor and gears (all one piece) from the lower front of your engine. There are normally four 10mm bolts that hold it on. Once you have it loose and off, you will see that in the gears, there is some very thick, gummy, stiff grease. Clean out all of that grease. (You can use a solvent such as paint thinner to get it all out). When cleaning the grease out, do be careful not to disturb the position that the gears are in. Once all the old grease is out, replace that grease with a generous amount of ALL-TEMPERATURE, WHITE LITHIUM GREASE. (That grease is available from any auto parts store.) After you've put the new grease in the gears, reassemble the shift motor/gears back onto the engine/transmission. Snug up the 10mm bolts, but don't over-tighten them. You should now be good to go!
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Note.... I have brought both this problem, and this fix, to the attention of Honda Powersports. They have been very responsive to me and have assured me that they will not only let their dealers know of this fix, but that they will revise the grease that they put into future models.
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I hope this helps you! ..........Ride Safely...........Have Fun!
 
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#108 ·
I’m no electronics guru by any means but have you cleaned the armature with some fine Emory paper/wet & dry? You may also try running the motor in water to bed in the new brushes, this was a technique I learned in my teens when tinkering with RC cars before brushless systems were available. Alternatively you can shape new brushes to roughly fit the armature with a file.
 
#110 ·
Also thinking back the tail on the brushes i used was much thinner i might try another set and see how it goes. For me to buy a non genuine shift motor here its $200 i could get a genuine from partzilla abit cheaper. Not sure id like to take the chance on a 2nd hand 1 for $40 from psn

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
#111 ·
In the wise words or borat "great success"

I went through the brush box at work and found a new set of hitachi brushes that measured 4mm x 5.8mm i sanded them back to length and soldered them on because they had no push on connector and it fricken works horay. Ill seal up the motor better now and re grease the gears.

Hitachi pn is 999-054 for future reference i squeezed the holder in a smidge to make it abit more tighter on the brush aswell.

As soon as i put it back togther it was much easier to spin and hooked up to the battery spun much much faster



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#113 ·
Thanks for the info. Bought this Honda a couple weeks ago from my father in law. Its a 2010 but only has 500 miles on it. Ive never had an ES ATV before so I had nothing to compare it to. It seemed to shift slowly between all gears. Between 3rd & 4th it took more than one try sometimes. When I removed the shift motor there wasn't any grease at all. Put some white lithium grease in and put back together. It now shifts quicker, quieter and has hit the desired gear every time! I probably wouldnt have figured this out myself.

THANKS KENTKO
 
#114 ·
Hello there was some more recent replies on this forum and you guys seem to know what you’re talking about. I have a 2009 rancher 420 fpe (electric shift and power steering model) and I’m having shifting problems, the gear indicator flashes the gear number over and over again. It does not shift at all on or off, occasionally it’ll try to shift weakly (I can hear it) but it won’t. So I’m not sure what the issue could be? it shifts with the emergency tool fine and drives when I put in gear. So any ideas on what my problem could be?? any advice would be very much appreciated.
 
#115 ·
I don't have an ES bike and never will , I am lying , I have 2 ES 450 in the scrap pile only cause some parts fit my foot shift 450s --------- I have read it over and over , clean and grease the shift motor shaft , dielectric grease every connection ----when that doesn't work or fixes the problem but it comes back again and again and you get tired of the same problem over and over , either buy a For Sale sign or convert the ES to foot shift ----- only problem with the for sale sign is , at least around here , no one wants a ES except the people buying their first atv and don't know any better , so selling them is hard and they don't bring much $
 
#118 ·
Update: I power washed the quad today just about everywhere on it, and it started shifting but very weakly, lasted for about 5 minutes and back to flashing the gear # and no shifting. I don’t think it’d be grease because how is the shift motor gonna know that and start flashing the # without even trying to shift?
 
#119 · (Edited)
Rancher420/2009

1st thing that ya gotta accept is that EVERY Honda ES bike requires a thorough greasing no matter its age or whether it shifts or not.

2nd thing ya gotta accept is that EVERY Honda ATV; regardless of the model, requires that you take the fenders off to clean and dielectric grease every harness connector pair on the bike.

If you're looking to cherry-pick for a quick & easy one-step solution you've already failed. Start reading and following the directions given here (post #43 and #45) after you have dielectric greased every harness connector on the bike. Straighten up any crooked bearings you see inside the reduction gears cover and pack each bearing with grease. And yes, synthetic grease is advised because that also solves a major ES problem: Honda used the wrong type of grease in them! Be thorough and you'll win, but cherry-pick 'n ya lose every time.

Start a thread of your own if you need any help and read and follow the service manual as you work.
 
#120 ·
Retro

Finally a good response. Yeah I’ll give that a try, I guess it’s possible that it could be the grease somehow. I know for a fact that it isn’t the buttons because they were working. Anyways I wish I had went with the foot shift model instead, these ES machines are something else that’s for sure. The for sale sign option is looking like it’ll be my best bet. (After I find the problem and fix it of course)

I actually did make my own thread but no ones responding.
 
#121 ·
Yours probably isn't working at all because the harness connectors never been prepped with dielectric grease? The pressure washing changing symptoms tips us off to that... They generally try to work if its just bad grease on the reduction gears. I'll find your other thread in a bit... been busy and probably missed it. Sorry about that!
 
#122 ·
Yeah I’m thinking it’s a wire/wire harness (not sure what you’d call it lol) it makes sense, because after washing the quad it started shifting, I must’ve washed some sort of connector which made it work temporarily so i’ll tr and locate that connector and clean it if possible. I currently don’t have the resources to put dielectric grease on everything and grease on the gears, so that’ll have to wait. Looking for a temporary fix while because i might be attending a quad rally.
 
#124 ·
I posted this on another thread but it may be valuable here as the topic is generally the same re: ES issues. The 07Rancher was needing attn. I had no clicking at all when attempting to shift so I was stuck in gear. The atv would start with hand brake on, also I could manually shift with the under seat shifter tool. This is what I did to fix my problem. I had the code 22 flash (two longs and two shorts) went to the service manual (pgs 23-19 and 23-20) to check for code 22 options and did try the angle sensor first but it wasn't that (new one didn't come with O ring), then checked the control motor which is suggested on pg 23-20 at the top. So I took off the shift control motor (3 bolts) and clean it out. That was my problem. After it was out I removed the top off the unit by undoing the two allen bolts. I saw some ugliness in there that cleaned up gently with a rag and toothbrush. There was housing corrosion and breaching of water/mud into the unit which I guess caused the no shift failure. Interestingly enough after I cleaned it up and ran a 12v test it went ok and spun quite nicely. Put it back on the bike out of curiousity and presto it cycled through the gears just fine and back to normal. I was glad to see that the teeth on the SCM shaft were not worn down or missing splines. Since I knew what the weak link was I did ordered a new oem SCM and installed it. Wow shifting was so much smoother and quieter once the new unit was in. Hope this information helps anyone with 07 Rancher ES problems with a code 22.
Good luck with your unit.
 
#125 · (Edited)
hey maple; you could use orange copper permatex, to seal your shifter motor an housing from water.
what does a tube of dielectric grease cost these days anybody? my is running low. 15 yrs old.
 
#126 ·
Buenas noches.Mi problema con el honda 420 At FA ES es que cuando salgo con el motor medio frio osea cuando salgo a andar coloco 1ra luego 2da y cuando voy a colocar 3ra se salta a la 5ta marcha, a esto lo hace de igual manera en manual como en automatico, despues de andar 2 o 3 km funciona todo bien osea cuando el motor llego a su temperatura optima.Ya limpie la grasa original y coloque grasa de litio, limpie todas las conecciones y coloque grasa dielectrica y sigue haciendo lo mismo.Me pueden decir que puede ser?el cuatri es 2011, bateria original y tiene 6.000 millas.
 
#127 ·
Gracias Hermano Pablo
The translator says:

Good night. My problem with the sling 420 At FA ES is that when I go out with the medium cold engine when I go out I place 1st then 2nd and when I go to place 3rd jumps to the 5th gear, to do it in the same way in manual as in automatic, after walking 2 or 3 km everything works fine when the engine reached its optimum temperature. Now clean the original grease and place lithium grease, clean all the connections and place dielectric grease and keep doing the same Can you tell me what it can be? The quad is 2011, original battery and has 6,000 miles
 
#128 ·
Hermano Pablo
eso es muchos años con una batería: primero realizaría una prueba de carga de la batería para ver si se debilita después de muchos años y millas de servicio

I mean to say “that is many years on a battery—i would first perform a load test on the battery to see if it is weakened after the many years and miles of service”
 
#129 ·
Ola Pablo,
The Rancher 420 AT requires a good, strong battery be installed for reliable operation. When the battery becomes old and weak shifting problems like yours may begin to occur. It sounds like you may need a new replacement battery. You can have your old battery load tested to find out for sure before buying new. Please keep us updated and let us know if we can help you.

Welcome to the forums!

https://translate.google.com

Ola pablo
El Rancher 420 AT requiere que se instale una batería buena y fuerte para un funcionamiento confiable. Cuando la batería se vuelve vieja y comienzan a ocurrir problemas de cambio como el suyo. Parece que puede necesitar una nueva batería de reemplazo. Puede verificar su carga de batería anterior para estar seguro antes de comprar una nueva. Por favor, manténganos actualizados y háganos saber si podemos ayudarlo.

¡Bienvenido a los foros!
 
#132 ·
ya sure Buenas noches, dont mean; good evening? i seen to many western's, where it was still light out. :smile
 
#134 ·
Hi! I'm going to measure the state of charge of the battery before leaving, it would have to be in 12v, is that so? If it is less defective and would have to change it, in a few days I will be commenting. Thanks!!!
Hola pablcuello, una batería en buen estado debe medir 12.6 voltios o más a su voltaje de reposo. Lo que significa que 24 horas después, después de recargar la batería por última vez, debe medir 12.6 voltios o más en un voltímetro. Una batería nueva puede medir entre 12.8 voltios y 13.0 voltios a su voltaje de reposo. Una batería vieja y débil medirá menos de 12.6 voltios a su voltaje de reposo.

Pero la tensión suficiente no es el único factor que determina si una batería está en buenas condiciones o no. Las baterías pierden gradualmente la capacidad actual con el tiempo a medida que se deterioran. Para probar la capacidad de una batería, se debe probar la carga con un dispositivo electrónico. La prueba de carga mide cuánta corriente suministra la batería a una carga pesada.

Como sabe que su batería está vieja, su capacidad puede ser demasiado baja para operar los sistemas eléctricos en su ATV lo suficiente. Aquí en los EE. UU. Hay muchas tiendas de autopartes, y todos los minoristas de baterías cargarán una batería de prueba para un cliente sin cargo. Te recomiendo que lleves tu batería a un minorista y les pidas que prueben la carga antes de comprar una batería nueva. Si no puede encontrar a alguien que esté preparado para cargar su batería de prueba, cámbiela por una nueva del tamaño y tipo adecuado, ya que ya sospecha que está llegando al final de su vida útil.

retro said:
Hi pablcuello, A battery in good condition should measure 12.6 volts or above at its resting voltage. Which means that 24 hours later, after the battery was last recharged, it should measure 12.6 volts or higher on a voltmeter. A new battery might measure between 12.8 volts and 13.0 volts at its resting voltage. An aging and weak battery will measure less than 12.6 volts at its resting voltage.

But sufficient voltage is not the only factor determining whether a battery is in good condition or not. Batteries gradually lose current capacity over time as they decay. To test the capacity of a battery it must be load tested using an electronic device. The load test measures how much current the battery supplies to a heavy load.

Since you know your battery is old its capacity may be too low to operate the electrical systems on your ATV sufficiently. Here in the USA many auto parts stores, and all battery retailers will load test a battery for a customer at no charge. I recommend that you take your battery to a retailer and ask them to load test it before you buy a new battery. If you cannot find someone who is eqipped to load test your battery, replace it with a new one of the proper size and type, since you already suspect that it is nearing the end of its useful life.
 
#135 ·
Having issues with 02 foreman won't shift
N indicators just blinking can shift with the hand lever however will not move? When in gear number blinking

Check angle sensor shows bad replaced with no luck same problem.. clean out the shift motor and all back to normal will shift through all the gears but won't move when in gear?
After multiple attempts shift up and down now back to original problem N blinking won't shift
Thanks in advance for your help
 
#136 · (Edited)
You might have an issue with the change clutch if the bike won't move when its in gear. Try adjusting the clutch per the manual.

ES shift issues generally stem from excessive friction and drag in the mechanical assemblies. Look for any of the five reduction gear support bearings that are installed crooked in their bores and straighten them up if any are noticed. They each must be squarely installed. Clean out the old grease in those bearings using solvent and repack them using synthetic grease under your finger. Coat each of the reduction gears liberally with syn grease too. Take the shift motor apart and wash all of the parts in hot soapy water and rinse the armature well. Then squirt some rubbing alcohol on the armature to mix out any remaining water and blow it completely dry. Reassemble the shift motor using syn grease in each bearing/bushing and on the seal lip. Do not polish or sand on the commutator bars, leave that black coating on them alone. Coat all of the o-rings and gaskets with syn grease, dielectric grease, or silicone o-ring grease as the assemblies are put back together. Do not overtighten the reduction gears cover bolts, that can cause pinching and binding of the gears in the support bearings. Your goal is to reduce friction and drag wherever possible. Clean parts and careful reassembly is required, using synthetic grease on all moving parts.

Check the angle sensor resistance curves using a multimeter before putting it back on. Do not overtighten those two angle sensor bolts.

EDIT:
Begin reading here for more info. The entire ES prep procedure is covered in a few posts:

https://www.hondaatvforums.net/foru...y/117193-creamsicle-orange-2.html#post1151201

Dielectric grease every harness connector on the bike once you're done.
 
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