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Fixing Electronic Shift (ES) problems

367K views 203 replies 71 participants last post by  raphaelpomerleaumori 
#1 ·
Many of us have Electric Shift (ES) models. In fact, Honda sells approximately EIGHT times as many ES models for every foot-shift model sold. The ES models are very reliable. But, because of the number of ES machines that are sold and owned, it sometimes seems that there are more difficulties with ES shifting than with manual shifting. Unfortunately, there has been one problem with ES shifting that has affected many ES owners at one time or another: The problem is that, at times, when you make a shift (up or down) on an ES machine, the shift is not complete. You can hear the shift motor trying to make the shift when you press a shift button <->, but no shift occurs and, at times, you receive a - - - display. The problem occurs even more often when it is cold outside.
Fortunately, the answer/fix to the problem is really very easy! The problem is caused by very heavy, stiff, gummy grease that was installed in the shift motor gears at the factory. Once that grease is removed and replaced with a different grease, you'll be back to shifting normally! So, here's how you replace that grease: Remove the shift motor and gears (all one piece) from the lower front of your engine. There are normally four 10mm bolts that hold it on. Once you have it loose and off, you will see that in the gears, there is some very thick, gummy, stiff grease. Clean out all of that grease. (You can use a solvent such as paint thinner to get it all out). When cleaning the grease out, do be careful not to disturb the position that the gears are in. Once all the old grease is out, replace that grease with a generous amount of ALL-TEMPERATURE, WHITE LITHIUM GREASE. (That grease is available from any auto parts store.) After you've put the new grease in the gears, reassemble the shift motor/gears back onto the engine/transmission. Snug up the 10mm bolts, but don't over-tighten them. You should now be good to go!
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Note.... I have brought both this problem, and this fix, to the attention of Honda Powersports. They have been very responsive to me and have assured me that they will not only let their dealers know of this fix, but that they will revise the grease that they put into future models.
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I hope this helps you! ..........Ride Safely...........Have Fun!
 
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#75 ·
I would but I am in the market for a pickup truck (just turned 16), and i cant do that until i buy my truck cause i will talk myself into spending more than my budget lol. I don't think id buy another Honda anyways because it costs so much to get IRS compared to others but we'll see.
 
#77 ·
Hi: Check the continuity of the UP/DN buttons -- There is only 5 volts DC on the contacts of the switches.
 
#79 ·
I'll post what I found on my 450 Foreman ES and hope it helps someone else like it helped Me. I bought this Quad used a few months back and had nothing but erratic shifting problems which was making me frustrated because I couldn't trust it even though the guy replaced a lot of parts. I finally decided it was idling to high and made adjustments to the idle so it was set to idle as low as it could but run smooth after it was warmed up with the choke off. Took it out today for a real work out with my buddies and it never missed a stroke. Never had a shift problem all day. Needless to say I am a happy camper. The guy must have been out of his mind to have it idle that high. Can't say it will help everyone but it's a good place to start.

Good Luck
 
#80 ·
glad you fixed your problem !. but...the electric shifts models do not really rely on the idle to change gears ?..except !!!..it will effect changing gears on the clutch !!!. what i am saying is, at idle, it will be hard for a electric shift to change gears because the clutch is moving to fast, think of it like this, if it was a manual shift ( they really are called semi-auto/manual shifts )..and the idle was too high ?, you would have a hard time using your foot to lift the lever to change gears if the idle was too high ?. the answer: lower the idle to change gears..but this only works from a stand still, has no effect once the rpms are high. now..if the rpms don't drop fast enough when you push the button to change gears ?, well then..idle is to high ?, or rpms are to fast ?. this is why you should ALWAYS let off on the throttle before you change gears..with a electric shift..as well as a manual shift model, as both will have a hard time changing gears :). p.s. notice this thread is old ??..lol.
 
#81 ·
What your saying makes sense because most of my shift problems was going into reverse or going back into 1st after being into reverse, but I did experience the digital read out indicating Second gear when I was actually in First. I'm sure the speed sensor must have something to do with it. I don't understand how it all ties together, but I'm happy now it seems like a KEEPER and not a PIG in the POKE.
 
#84 ·
So I brought my rancher es to the shop after experiencing my 2-3 shifting issue and I was told it is the computer that is bad. I didn't have them replace it because I was going to get charged 400 bucks. So after doing some research, I found one for 200 bucks new OEM. My question is, the dealer calls it a CDI and some guys on here call it an ECM. Is there a difference? Do you think that this bad computer could also be causing my quad to back fire and stall when idling at high elevation occasionally?

Thanks guys
 
#88 ·
Ok , I have a 2001 Rancher 350 es and here is the problem ! it shift ok up and down no problem as long as I don't go over a certain RPM ! If I go over it stops shifting up or down ! If I turn the key off and back on , it resets it and shifts ok as long as I don't over rev it ! any suggestions on what is wrong?
 
#89 ·
Hi Jeff,

Your ES shifting issue (failing to shift) with RPMs above a certain point sounds to me like a loose connection somewhere. I can't pinpoint it... but I feel that you'll solve the problem in a harness plug or a bad ground.

Check the condition of your 30 amp shift motor fuse first. Look for corrosion or wetness in the fuse sockets on either half of that fuse. Clean them both and make sure the two fuse spades fit snugly down into each socket.

Next up, check the ground cable connection bolted down near the starter motor where the negative cable attaches to the motor cases for a poor/wet/corroded connection. Loosen, clean it up and re-tighten that bolt.

Next up, check & clean the plug from the regulator/rectifier where it plugs into the main harness. And clean and reattach each of the battery cables.

Finally, take the plug apart that connects to the shift motor and clean/reattrach that. If the issue still persists, start a thread detailing all that you know about the bike and problem and we'll help ya figure it out. Have fun...!
 
#93 ·
2002 Rancher 350ES Shifting Problem

Hello all, New to the forum. Hope I'm doing this right. Trying to resurrect a 2002 Rancher trx350fe. I have read a few posts in this thread that are very similar to my problems, but I have not seen any triumphant posts stating they discovered the problem and had repaired the shifting problem. Just a little background information first.
I have a new battery. The clutch is adjusted properly. I have a speedometer reading 0. The gear indication is always blank, except when you unplug the speed sensor, then all gears register as you shift through 1-5 with key on engine off. I have cleaned all connectors and put dielectric grease in connectors.
First tests Speedometer/speed sensor test. Meter is powered. Speed sensor test, Bl/Bu + to G - voltage test on harness side 5.16 vdc. Manual says I should have battery voltage. When testing with jumpers between the harness connector and the speed sensor connector for the 0 - 5 vdc pulse between P/G + and G - I am reading just a little over 5 vdc constantly while slowly turning the wheels. No pulse at all.
I just got a brand new speed sensor in today and it performs the same way. Should I be getting full battery voltage on the Bl/Bu + to G - speed sensor wires??
You can ride it around slow and it will shift fine. Drive it normal and it will lock up and will not shift until the key is cycled, then it will shift again.
Does anyone know if I should be reading 12.7 vdc on the Bl/Bu + to G - speed sensor wires???
Thanks much
 
#93 ·
Anyone got any ideas on this. Its got a new angle sensor and refurbed the shift motor. I put a red wheel bearing grease on the gears that i thought matched retros description, wondering of i should clean all the grease off and try without. Failing that Convert it to foot shift.
Video link here


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#94 ·
Anyone got any ideas on this. Its got a new angle sensor and refurbed the shift motor. I put a red wheel bearing grease on the gears that i thought matched retros description, wondering of i should clean all the grease off and try without. Failing that Convert it to foot shift.
k
Put the battery on a charger and get it in top form. Clean those connections.
When you know the battery is good, try adjusting the clutch.
I have an 02FE (7000 miles) and the last time i had it out it stopped shifting—I replaced the battery and adjusted the clutch-all good.
Three years before i changed shift motor angle sensor and ECM/ECU?
 
#96 ·
Grease is not an issue since its new grease. As Goober mentioned, the clutch may need readjusting. I'd try readjusting that before going any further.

Another common issue with ES systems is improperly installed reduction gear support bearings from the factory. Many times one or more of those little bearings are found cocked in their bores. Simply straighten them up so they are squarely installed at the proper depth (depth is correct when the top edge of the outer race is at the bottom edge of the bore chamfer) then push some fresh grease into each of them using your finger, as they are not sealed... they are just shielded bearings. Each must rotate smoothly once repacked.

If yours does not have any support bearing issues then its most likely a clutch adjustment or a totally junk battery. Try shifting from neutral to 1st, then back down to N, then reverse while the motor is running at the proper idle speed (1400 RPM) with the battery fully charged. It should shift quickly and complete each shift firmly, with power to spare. Also check the reverse lockout cable adjustment and make sure that cable and lever is moving freely if you notice that it struggles with reverse shifts only.
 
#98 ·
Do you have the motor running at idle speed while testing the shifts? Does the gear position switch indicate which gear it is in (N, R, 1 etc.) on the display? Does it shift up and down normally when you manually shift it? Last question... is your angle sensor an OEM Honda part, or a knockoff? You can check the sensor with an ohm meter (section 21 in the FSM) if ya got one handy. Hang in there...
 
#100 ·
Ahh, OK. First and only suspect might be that aftermarket china angle sensor then... and I doubt that he'll get off scotch-free once scrutinized. I might check it with an ohm meter before I crush it under my 3 lb hammer... if I'm needing some practice that day.... but probably not tho. I'd just take a whack at it. You got screwed again man. :-( I wish I had one that I could send ya, but I don't.
 
#105 ·
Ya, the shift motor is 12v DC provided by the ECM. The shift switches, speed sensor, angle sensor, etc. are all signaling circuits... those signaling circuits are provided ~5v by the ECM.

That shift motor is tiny, but you should not be able to hold it still with your fingers. Maybe a magnet is busted loose from the housing...? or a brush is stuck in a rusty brush holder...? Theres not much that can go wrong with them as long as the armature is not shorted/open and the commutator is in good condition.

I don't have a spare or I'd sent one to you... you can test the armature and commutator for shorts or opens using an Ohms meter in the meantime. The test procedure is shown in the service manual.
 
#107 ·
I wouldn't think so... those little brush springs can't apply very much force. As long as the brushes fit the holders good they should work. I've made my own brushes (on power tools) before too, by filing down larger brushes to match the guides.

A small pair of alligator clips can be used to hold the brushes back while you put the armature into the nose casting. I'm curious about the low torque output of yours.... still scratching my head trying to guess whats wrong with it.
 
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