Smoke-Oil Pump? - Honda ATV Forum
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
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Smoke-Oil Pump?

2004 Rancher ES350TE

For those that have read my previous posts, i'm sorry for re-hashing this, but I am still looking for answers. The engine runs like a top (till the spark plug fouls)
Basically, entire top end has been rebuilt twice and it still burns oil like a b*tch. Smokes from the moment you crank it up. Blue smoke, it's oil, drinks it fast. I know there are only a couple ways that oil gets into the cylinder to get burnt.
1.) Through the head (BAD VALVES, SEALS ETC)
2.) Through the rings (BAD RINGS, NOT ALIGNED PROPERLY)
3.) Through the Carb (FROM CRANKCASE VENT INTO AIRBOX)


I know it is none of these. Can anyone else thank of any way this thing could be smoking?? Could the oil pump have anything to do with it? The reason I ask, Is I drained the oil and put in 2 full quarts. A checked the dipstick, and it didnt register anything! I had to run the engine to get oil to the dipstick side. I was under the impression that when you poured the oil in, it filled the full front "chamber" and hit the dipstick immediately.
Any ideas would be welcome at this point. Please feel free to brainstorm and ask questions. (I refuse to let this break me. Not taking it to a pro)
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 01:40 PM
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A far as the oil not being in the dipstick goes, I'd say it just has to pump around for an accurate reading, and the smoking. Could be alot of things, is your bore right? If the cylinder is too big compared to the piston it's gunna smoke. Doesn't take much. Few thousandths of and inch. Did you hone the cylinder? New rings don't actually like a perfectly smooth cylinder for break-in, the famous cross hatch in the cylinder from a hone finish is best. Hiw are the valve guides? They can go bad. Did you re seat the valves? Did you soak the valve seals in oil before you installed them? If you didn't lube everything before assembling, it defeats the purpose of a rebuild. Did you follow proper break in procedure? Please don't take offense to some of the very obvious things I just said I'm just throwing out everything I can think of lol

01 400ex
415 wiseco bore kit 10.5:1
Stage 1 hot cam
Lsr swing arm
Hmf competition series exhaust

1986 200x
Bone stock except top end rebuild

1982 atc 185s
Bone stock
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 01:42 PM
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And I would say the oil pump has nothing to do with it, it either pumps or it doesn't lol, but seeing as it burns oil it must be pumping.

01 400ex
415 wiseco bore kit 10.5:1
Stage 1 hot cam
Lsr swing arm
Hmf competition series exhaust

1986 200x
Bone stock except top end rebuild

1982 atc 185s
Bone stock
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 01:47 PM
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Did you rebuild it yourself both times? Did anybody help you with gaping the rings or fitting the oil rings?

Whatever is currently in one piece... 400 prairie with stuff, 300 fourtrax, 500 sportsman, yz 125...
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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No offense taken what so ever. All good questions. Cylinder was honed and miked to perfect specs with the piston in hand. Nice crosshatch as well. The head is off of a spare bike that runs with no smoke, but I went ahead and put new seals in it since I had it on the bench. The bike smoked with original head and this head...so two different heads....same results. I lubed it up real good before re-installing everything. As far as the "Proper break in procedure", there are two schools of thought on this... You have the "Ride it like you stole it" break in, And then the idle it, heat it up, shut it off, cool it down, repeat. What I did was leave it in neutral, rev it up and down, try not to leave it at the same rpm... but as soon as it cranked, it was smoking just like it did before the rebuild, and the rebuild before that.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan G View Post
Did you rebuild it yourself both times? Did anybody help you with gaping the rings or fitting the oil rings?
I did the rebuild (except for the cylinder honing) First time I had help with the rings, second time I did it by myself.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 02:26 PM
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Unless you broke an oil ring during the installation,or initial start up,and you did exactly as you stated in your above post it should not smoke at all other than the residual oil in the exhaust system which needs time to fully burn out,and the rings need a few good heat cycles to fully conform to the cylinder bore shape...Mild smoking on initial start up after a rebuild is normal as the assembly oil gets burned off along with the oil that is bypassing the unseated rings...Go ride,and ride it hard for a few minutes,pay attention to the rpms,vary them as much as possible,don't hold it at one rpm very long,then come back,shut it down after you check the exhaust for signs of raw oil,or lessening of smoke...If it keep smoking after a few of these heat cycles then you may have broke an oil ring,or the scrappers are not working properly,or you need to just take it back down again,and see what is wrong with it..(You can reuse the gaskets again since they're new,and haven't been stressed yet,a couple coats of silver spray paint to each side of the head gasket will help,or replace the head gasket,and reuse the rest)...

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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Well,
I took it to my buddy who is retired and had the time to tear it all apart again today. He said he pulled the front off where the oil goes and it was nasty. The oil pump pressure relief valve was stuck closed, and the was crap in the oil passages. He pumped kerosene through everything and got it all shiny...And guess what... for the first time in 3 months and countless man hours and parts, it is NOT smoking. Not sure exactly what part was malfunctioning, but I don't care at this point. Thanks to everyone on the forum for the help. I learned alot.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 09:21 PM
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Very glad to hear it all worked. Actually had me confused because from what you said you did a pretty good rebuild job. Just throwing this out there. There are alot of different ways to break an engine in. As deeperinthebush mentioned, the heat cycles are important. I usually start it and let it idle for about 15 minutes, let it cool off, start it and work the rpms a bit, not too muh though. Let t cool off, then ride it, working the rpms maybe a little more but still not a lot, let it cool off. Check valves( that's my own opinion). Then ride it like you stole it. Seems to work for me, but it's not the only way, and maybe not the best way, but like I said, always works for me, just a little advice for future reference.

01 400ex
415 wiseco bore kit 10.5:1
Stage 1 hot cam
Lsr swing arm
Hmf competition series exhaust

1986 200x
Bone stock except top end rebuild

1982 atc 185s
Bone stock
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