Hey guys! So I took my wheeler for a ride today. I got about ten miles from home and stopped to light a smoke and man oh man was there a ticking coming from the head. It sounded more like it was from the intake side but it's impossible to really tell. . It has the correct amount of oil in it. I check before every long ride. So I'm home now and I just checked the valve spacing and it's spot on so I know that isn't it. Any ideas on what it could be? There is oil in the head but not as much as i remember from the other times i checked the valves. Oil pump maybe? Is there a way to check that?I just changed to full synthetic and It's been running great. Thanks.
Hmmm... 87 has the cable decompression hookup from the kickstarter. Did that short cable get poked by a stick or something and take all the slack out of it? Did the adjustment nuts come loose or the cable bracket get bent? If the cable gets pulled tight for any reason the decompression cam will be contacting the rocker arm while its running and make quite a racket.
Could also be timing chain slap. Or a failed tensioner. When you adjusted valves did you use your finger and try to move the tappet and see if it was making alot of noise that way? I just had this happen on my 400ex and have the rocker arms and shafts on order because they were at or passed the service limit. Havent confirmed its going to fix it yet but its somsthing to think about. My .02
I thought of that too but upon reassembling everything after reinstalling the valve cover last time I was having such a hard time getting the cable back on the decompression lever that I left it disconnected. It was and is fully forward, so not contacting anything. It was the first thing I checked once I heard the noise. A horrible ticking noise though! I'm going to reinstall the motor bracket and start it to see if that will lead me anywhere.
the decompression cable MUST BE INSTALLED !. why ?, simple, it not only decompresses the exhaust valve ?, but it also holds the lever up when not in use ?!. in other words, if the cable is not on/installed/working right ?, it allows the lever to sit there, and rap on the exhaust valve when the motor is running. if this is all good ?, then your valves were set wrong on the wrong stroke !.
I just had the tensioner out recently less than two weeks ago and it was in good working order then. The cam chain is stretched, but has life still in it. I'm not sure what you mean about the tappet though? You mean wiggling it side to side? I just started it again and it is definitely tapping up there in the head something awful. I'm yanking the valve cover off now...
Does anyone know what else would make such a tapping noise? I mean it wasn't overly hot or anything. Do valves get bent sometimes just cause they're old? Would a bent valve make that noise??? I decided to go for another ride and enjoy the rest of the daylight. I'm going to wait both for dark and hopefully to hear back from you guys any ideas you may have of what could be making the noise. Thanks again. I hate not riding my honda...?
Haha I know what a tappet is, I was asking about when you asked me if I could move the tappet with my finger and did it make noise that way? I wasn't sure what you meant. I just had the cover off a week or two ago and while I didn't completely disassemble the cam and check tolerances everything looked good. Pretty hard to see a thousandth of an inch though. ?. I'm just looking for any suggestions of what could make a tapping noise in the head. Especially with the valves adjusted properly. Thanks again!
I i gotcha. Well what i was talking about is on my 400ex. Which this could be different. When i adjust the valves after i torque the lock nut down. I take my finger and put it at the end of the rocker arm and try to snap it up and down rapidly. If it makes noise that way its gunna make alot of noise while running. I just had this exact thing happen and i have a tread about it called 416ex weird valve adjustment issue. After adjusting valves perfectly on multiple attempts i couldnt get one valve to quiet down. It sounds like a sewing machine. I finally broke down and removed the valve cover and all the rocker arms and shafts. I mic'ed all of them to find the one i cant quiet being passed the service limit on the shaft and rocker arm. All the other ones are just at the service limit. So i ordered all of the parts new to hopefully fix it. I have adjusted 100s of valves and never had one fight me like this. Maybe your in the same boat?
To be honest with you I haven't the foggiest. Unfortunately I really mean that! I'm just starting to learn about working on engines. I'm a carpenter and I've built r.c. cars, helicopters, and done some projects to my vehicles through the years but never work inside an engine. I've adjusted the valves on this 4 times so far, long story. Whatever happened happened today. The noise wasn't there when I left this morning. Or any noise for that matter and then after riding for about 10 or fifteen minutes BAM it just started. I'm going to go finish removing through valve cover now. I just wish I knew what I was looking for! I probably need to just in stall new everything but I'll check it all with the manual and my micrometer first. Thanks for posting your suggestions! Im sure I'll be back with questions if you'd be kind enough to keep an eye on me...
The valve cover is off and I can see nothing wrong. There's plenty of oil in there and I looked where all the surfaces touch on the cam and rockers and cannot see any one spot that looks any more shiny than anywhere else. So, as I feared, all looks normal. So now I disassemble the cam and rocker arms and check tolerances, correct? Any suggestions or tips or anything to look for that i should do? I'm going to put her to tdc an check cam chain tension next before I do anything else.
when you check/set/adjust the valves ?, MAKE SURE YOUR ON THE CORRECT STROKE !!, YOU DO NOT WANT TO SET THE VALVES ON THE EXHAUST STROKE !, you want to set them on the compression stroke !.
So... I'm a dumba$$. I didn't read the instructions when putting her back together last time and I didn't use threadlocker on the cam sprocket bolts... one of them is loose. I'm hoping I didn't destroy the top end but I can't imagine that I didn't. I'm not sure if the other one is loose yet. I'll get some red threadlocker tomorrow and tighten that one down to 17lbf and then spin her around and check the other one. I can't see any metal shavings nor can I see where it was rubbing. Lord I feel stupid! I guess this how you learn but I'm going to really study up from now on before I do something. I'm hoping for the best and that the bolt had just come loose before I stopped and heard it. Thanks for your help guys. I'll post back to this thread once I get her all back together again and let you know if I lucked out or if I destroyed the top end. Geez I'm wicked mad at myself...
don't kick yourself to hard !, your not the first person that has done this ?..and you won't be the last ! ( yes..many moons ago..i too.. did this ..lol ).
Dont beat yourself up! I did the same thing on a 300ex years ago. I learned my lesson since and always use red locktite and torque them to spec. Mine you could see the mark in the valve cover and still didnt hurt anything but my pride lol. Keep your head up! We have all been there bro!
seeing how we are on the subject of '' whoops '' moments ?..lmao. many years ago, rebuilt a trx250 motor, tightened down the last bolt, by bud comes over, see's the cam chain tensioner guide laying on the floor, ask..where did that come from ?, was it in that motor ?..ummmm..welllll...CHIT !!!..LMAOOO.
Thanks guys... that makes me feel a little better. I'm just hoping I'll luck out and she won't be any worse for wear. I really love that ol machine. In bed tonight once I close my eyes I'll just picture that loose bolt whizzing around in there and the cam sprocket wobbling!! Tap tap tap rap rap tap. Lol. Thanks again guys. I'll let you know how I make out.
Going off the FSM yes. That is what honda wants on them. My guess is because it is internal engine and gets heated alot as is. I have never had to use a torch on one to remove. Although normally red on anything else is permanent. Just shy of welding it lol
As for the 10mm broken bolt. I am no utility quad expert. But im sure one will be along soon.
I actually ended up using the high temp red kind. Rated up to 450°f. The other is only rated to 300°f. So I got er all back together and you'll never guess what happened... one of the 10mm bolts snapped off... it's flush with the top of the jug. I was using a torque wrench... anyhow I wanted to see how it sounded and ran so I put everything back together and just got back from an hours worth of riding and it seems just fine. I know it isn't right but it's going to have to be till all my parts come and I am able to take it apart one last time till winter I hope. If you were sitting on the seat looking at the top o the motor there is a 10mm bolt just to the left of, and directly in line with, the intake rocker. So if you were viewing the motor from the left hand side the top of this bolt(if it were there) partially obscures your view of the bore of the intake rocker arm. The thing that has a slot in it. Am I going to ruin things running it like that for a little while? I know it's not good but will I destroy anything? Other than that not being right it runs like a charm! I guess I lucked out. Till now at least! Thanks.
is this the bolt that has a copper washer on it ?, and it goes through the end of the rocker shaft that has a slot in it ?, if this is the bolt that uses a copper washer ?, it will leak oil. if it's not this bolt ?, and you used yamabond or hondabond to seal the rocker box up with ?, you should be ok. most times I run a tap down in all my holes, makes it easier to tighten them down.
and if you use yamabond or hondabond ?, you don't have to torque any rocker box bolts very hard at all. the sealant does what it's suppose to do ?, keep oil in !.
It's not one of the ones with a copper washer. And ithe isn't leaking a drop of oil! I used yamabond for a sealant. I think the manual only calls for 7-12lbft for the 8mm bolts and 17-20lbft for the 10mm ones. So not much. That's why I was so surprised when it snapped! I was just approaching 20 pounds and ssssNAPPP. I can't believe that I broke a steel bolt instead of stripping out the aluminium threads?? Weird. A tap and die set is one of my next purchases. Thanks for reassuring me about the missing bolt. I kinda figured if it wasn't leaking oil it would be okay. There's a lot of bolts in that head anyhow and that area seems particularly strong. Well good then!! I'm back to riding till something else breaks! Happy memorial day everyone and thanks again. Don't know what I'd do without you guys!
i'll tell you why it snapped ?..HEAT !. over time, heat makes those small bolts weak, very weak !. I can't tell you how many trx350 rancher lower head bolts I've snapped off ?, and not even putting force on them !. they are very weak after they get heated off and on ?!. this bro..is why I don't trust torque wrenches ?, and don't use them. I don't care how careful you think your being by using them on old bolts on these atvs ?, your gonna snap a bolt..sooner or later ?!..lol. be safe, ride on !.
@Jegs87trx350 I know the feeling, what a horrible sensation to hear a bolt snap. A heartbreaker. Sunken feeling. I had done the rear end of my 300 and when I was tightening the last bolt (drain bolt) the little sucker snapped inside the casing... Luckily I got a left-hand drill and was able to drill it out and replace the bolt. I used a left hand drill so that it would pull it out instead of putting it inside the case.
probably ?, I re-use most of my bolts/nuts..even when the book says to replace them ?..lol. like the bolts that hold the front brake backing plate ?, they are coated if you ever noticed ?, kinda like thread locker ?, the book tells you to replace with new ?, I never do, I re-use them, not once today have I had any issues with them coming out. they make nuts the same way, they are made to go on once, and lock on, but when removed ?, they claim they are no longer good ?..meh..i re-use them !..lol.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Honda ATV Forum
618.3K posts
80K members
Since 2008
We’re a forum community dedicated to Honda ATV owners & enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about upgrades and reliability for your Rancher, Foreman, Recon, FourTrax, Pioneer, and more!